Charger Led #5 involved in Crash with Concrete Truck near Reno

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Every engineer I know has said again and again that the cab is too low and engineers would get hurt from a collision with something big. Incredible this happened during the long distance charger testing. Is it too late for Amtrak to cancel the order?
 

jis

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Every engineer I know has said again and again that the cab is too low and engineers would get hurt from a collision with something big. Incredible this happened during the long distance charger testing. Is it too late for Amtrak to cancel the order?
We are being a bit quick in pushing our own theory, even before the dust settles on matters and people have had a chance to see how things came out.

You can rest assured that it is highly unlikely that any order will be canceled no matter how hard you believe that is what should happen. The cab has actually performed surprisingly well in close to a hundred road collisions on Brightline involving everything from a Mini Cooper to trucks of various sizes and shapes, and all those engines are back in service and running.
 
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We are being a bit quick in pushing our own theory, even before the dust settles on matters and people have had a chance to see how things came out.

You can rest assured that it is highly unlikely that any order will be canceled no matter how hard you believe that is what should happen. The cab has actually performed surprisingly well in close to a hundred road collisions on Brightline involving everything from a Mini Cooper to trucks of various sizes and shapes, and all those engines are back in service and running.
I'm sure the cab has held up well in most situations. However, being lower to the ground is just one of the many things every engineer I've worked with hates about them. I just wish Amtrak would consult the people that actually operate these things before placing a huge order to replace the P42s. Not even saying they should completely scrap the order, but for the few years they've been used on state services, they easily could have asked engineers for feedback on the design and operating quirks before signing the dotted line.
 

jis

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I just wish Amtrak would consult the people that actually operate these things before placing a huge order to replace the P42s.
I guess the BLE people who are participating in the new equipment committee have been asleep or they don't talk to themselves or their membership perhaps? How do you exactly know that they have not been consulted?
 

jis

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Because they have 75+ chargers on order ;)
Huh? BLE has been a participant in the equipment selection for the States and then for Amtrak. Perhaps you are not fully informed?
 

Brian_tampa

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Having seen the damage to the Brightline Chargers over the past 2 years and the ability of Brightline to get them back in service pretty quickly, my question to anyone who knows more details on this is why are the damaged IDOT/Midwest service Chargers so hard to repair and get back into service? It is my understanding that there are several Chargers that have been out of service for some time now due to grade crossing incidents. Is it because Brightline hired Siemens to maintain the Chargers and trainsets whereas Amtrak performs their own repairs? I know Brightline has a 20 or 30 year maintenance contract with Siemens worth several tens of millions of dollars. If that is the main reason, why didn't the Midwest/California consortium do the same with their Siemens equipment? I have read about spare parts availability issues with the Midwest/California Chargers that do not seem to be present with the Brightline trainsets.
 

rickycourtney

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Oof. Amtrak is renting these locomotives from the Midwestern states. Amtrak doesn’t own them.

I would guess that like most rental situations, it makes Amtrak liable for getting the units repaired (even though Amtrak likely wasn’t at fault), and the repairs would likely be need to be made ASAP and not on Amtrak’s normal, lackadaisical schedule.

Unless they purchased the damage waiver at the rental counter. ;)

Perhaps they can drop the damaged locomotive in Sacramento so it can go back to the Siemens factory for repairs.
 

Thirdrail7

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I guess the BLE people who are participating in the new equipment committee have been asleep or they don't talk to themselves or their membership perhaps? How do you exactly know that they have not been consulted?
He probably used the wrong phrase. They may have been consulted but that doesn't mean what they mentioned was implemented or even entertained. :confused:

Having seen the damage to the Brightline Chargers over the past 2 years and the ability of Brightline to get them back in service pretty quickly, my question to anyone who knows more details on this is why are the damaged IDOT/Midwest service Chargers so hard to repair and get back into service? It is my understanding that there are several Chargers that have been out of service for some time now due to grade crossing incidents. Is it because Brightline hired Siemens to maintain the Chargers and trainsets whereas Amtrak performs their own repairs? I know Brightline has a 20 or 30 year maintenance contract with Siemens worth several tens of millions of dollars. If that is the main reason, why didn't the Midwest/California consortium do the same with their Siemens equipment? I have read about spare parts availability issues with the Midwest/California Chargers that do not seem to be present with the Brightline trainsets.
Most entities have the same maintenance agreement. However, the Brightline equipment is quite different from the locomotives that are plying the states. Additionally, I believe Siemens is local to the Brightline operation. That is not necessarily the case with the rest of the units which at this point, are scattered coast to coast.

Additionally, lawsuits often put a hold on repairs.
 

Thirdrail7

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The cab has actually performed surprisingly well in close to a hundred road collisions on Brightline involving everything from a Mini Cooper to trucks of various sizes and shapes, and all those engines are back in service and running.
BTW, this wasn't the point of contention. While it is good to know that the cab has performed well (as demonstrated by 501 and 188) and the Brightline engines that have been involved in accidents are back in running, it has little to do with what he stated:


Every engineer I know has said again and again that the cab is too low and engineers would get hurt from a collision with something big
The question is not how did the cab hold up or will it be back in service but how does the engineer fare in these situations. That windshield shattered right at face level.
 

frequentflyer

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At least they can drop the locomotive off at the Siemens factory for some bodywork, along the way to Oakland.
 

sitzplatz17

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For anyone who is at work/can’t watch the video here’s a screen grab of the damage:
Adjustments.JPG

Hopefully that’s helpful. :)
 

Ryan

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That'll buff right out.

The question is not how did the cab hold up or will it be back in service but how does the engineer fare in these situations. That windshield shattered right at face level.
Minor injuries, transported to hospital. I would guess that the cement truck qualifies as "something big".
 

Just-Thinking-51

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That'll buff right out. Minor injuries, transported to hospital. I would guess that the cement truck qualifies as "something big".
Depends on whether the concrete truck was loaded at the time of impact. Not looking up the regulations in California, but some states will allow a concrete truck to weight up to 80,000 lbs. This one does not seem to have the axles need for that weight. The weight of the truck of course will increased amount of damage. So is it “something big” or just a “Mini Cooper” well lets just say weight is more important than size.
 
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Devil's Advocate

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Not looking up the regulations in California, but some states will allow a concrete truck to weight up to 80,000 lbs.
That's just the standard allowance where I live. When properly permitted you're allowed substantially more than 80K GVW. In theory very heavy vehicles are supposed to avoid troublesome routes, but there is no practical method for catching lazy or indifferent drivers before something bad has already happened.
 

Agent

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Here's a video by allaboardnv that shows the process of how the train got moving again with a Union Pacific engine, UP 8817, in the lead. The video includes a close-up shot of the lead Charger, IDTX 4628, taken at the Reno station.

 
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