CN puts restriction on City of New Orleans

[had8ley]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

 

[Greg]

I was on the CONO last weds pm heading south out of CHI and we had 2 engines, (one of which looked like a freight engine, I don't know the proper designation) baggage, a trans crew dorm, regular sleeper, CCC and 2 coaches.

 

[wayman]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

With "CN puts restriction..." in the subject line, "requiring Amtrak to run additional cars" was the absolute last thing I was expecting! Getting a Sightseer back would certainly be a nice way to handle things... do they have enough? Would that allow them to in-line with the Eagle again? (Of course, only for as long as the Eagle/Sunset doesn't change.)

 

[AlanB]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

With "CN puts restriction..." in the subject line, "requiring Amtrak to run additional cars" was the absolute last thing I was expecting! Getting a Sightseer back would certainly be a nice way to handle things... do they have enough? Would that allow them to in-line with the Eagle again? (Of course, only for as long as the Eagle/Sunset doesn't change.)

There are enough SSL's to go around. We haven't lost any recently, so there is no shortage of them.

 

[Larry H.]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

I hate to be a dummy about this, and am very happy with the idea of a longer train again but could you explain what the situation is in lay-mans terms with the "hot box" detector or what ever needed a longer train? thanks

Larry

 

[MrFSS]

I was on the City southbound yesterday and today.

Engine, Transdorm, Sleeper, Cafe car, 4 coaches (one was a coach/baggage car), last two just carried as dead weight to have enough axles.

Today's northbound passed us at Hammond and had a baggage car. Must have run out of spare coaches.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Now THAT'S an ugly consist.

Text thing you know they'll deadhead some spare of CN's spare boxcars.

 

[had8ley]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

I hate to be a dummy about this, and am very happy with the idea of a longer train again but could you explain what the situation is in lay-mans terms with the "hot box" detector or what ever needed a longer train? thanks

Larry

Hot box detectors detect hot wheels (journals), sticking brakes and dragging brake equipment underneath RR cars. It takes the place of the caboose and transmits over the radio any train defects it detects. Apparently, the detectors could not get an accurate read of a five car train going 79 mph.

 

[had8ley]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

With "CN puts restriction..." in the subject line, "requiring Amtrak to run additional cars" was the absolute last thing I was expecting! Getting a Sightseer back would certainly be a nice way to handle things... do they have enough? Would that allow them to in-line with the Eagle again? (Of course, only for as long as the Eagle/Sunset doesn't change.)

There are enough SSL's to go around. We haven't lost any recently, so there is no shortage of them.

Only problem I foresee Alan is the turning of the City into the Eagle. There were numerous dirty consists sent out of Chicago when #58 turned into #21 and vice-versa.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

I hate to be a dummy about this, and am very happy with the idea of a longer train again but could you explain what the situation is in lay-mans terms with the "hot box" detector or what ever needed a longer train? thanks

Larry

Hot box detectors detect hot wheels (journals), sticking brakes and dragging brake equipment underneath RR cars. It takes the place of the caboose and transmits over the radio any train defects it detects. Apparently, the detectors could not get an accurate read of a five car train going 79 mph.

How old are CN's boxes? They don't seem to be up to date-- while on the CL EB and come Lincoln Service plus Cascades I heard detectors from CSX, NS, BNSF, Amtrak, and CN/SOO-- Have to say that the transmissions I picked up on my scanner were rather fuzzy-- the rest came in clear. They also wished the Engineer a safe trip (which was hilarious).

 

[Mark]

Wow- that's kind of ridiculous. That is the first time I've ever heard of a requirement to run extra cars by a freight road. We all like the longer consist of course but I hope CN is giving Amtrak a discount on its incentive payments. I can kind of see requiring an extra locomotive but cars that's just extra wear and tear, if they aren't needed for revenue service on that train.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Wow- that's kind of ridiculous. That is the first time I've ever heard of a requirement to run extra cars by a freight road. We all like the longer consist of course but I hope CN is giving Amtrak a discount on its incentive payments. I can kind of see requiring an extra locomotive but cars that's just extra wear and tear, if they aren't needed for revenue service on that train.

They should run ExpressTraks, or better yet, haul a few New Orleans bound freight cars for CN and accept CNs fee in their stead for this ridiculousness.

 

[Larry H.]

Living along the route and recalling when it was standard to see a 11 to 14 car City I am glad that they are suggesting more cars, better than not wanting a passenger train at all. On the whole we could do worse than CN when it comes to operating Amtrak most days.

 

[MikefromCrete]

This whole thing seems ridiculous. Why, all of a sudden, are the hotbox detectors not working on shorter trains? On every other railroad, they work. I believe this requirement is really hurting the OT of the Illini and Saluki, which run with four cars. Running with old Amtrak express cars would be a better idea since there are plenty of those around, rather than empty passenger cars which are in short supply. The CN should pay for the extra cost until they fix this problem.

 

[George Harris]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

30 axles? THIRTY axles? If the detector tells them they really have 30 axles do they have to stop the train and look for the two they lost? Since so far as I know, everything Amtrak runs, power included, has four axles, this is an impossible number.

 

[Rafi]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

30 axles? THIRTY axles? If the detector tells them they really have 30 axles do they have to stop the train and look for the two they lost? Since so far as I know, everything Amtrak runs, power included, has four axles, this is an impossible number.

Well... if you want to get technical, I guess you could cite the Talgo equipment since those cars share axels. That said, I don't think they're going on CN property any time soon.

Only other thing I can think of would be some older road engines that may have six axels, but I could easily be mistaken.

Rafi

 

[amtrakwolverine]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

30 axles? THIRTY axles? If the detector tells them they really have 30 axles do they have to stop the train and look for the two they lost? Since so far as I know, everything Amtrak runs, power included, has four axles, this is an impossible number.

30 axle MINIMUM. means they can't have less then 30 so they could wind up with 32 or 36 etc.

 

[Guest]

Sorry, but with someone that has the definitave inside scoop (read: employee) the 30 axle minimum has not a solitary single thing to do with the detectors. It's for the road grade crossings. Now with the being said, no one can tell me what a 30 axle minimum train does to a grade crossing that a longer one doesn't but again, nothing at all regarding the detectors.

 

[Guest]

Addition to my post above (#18) is that anything less than 30 axles then the maximum speed is 60mph over public grade crossings. Won't really affect a freight train as that's close to there max speed anyway, but would significantly increase the travel time for Amtrak so the logical response was to put some extra axles on the train.

And regarding adding the SSL....it's been asked numerous times, but no worthwhile reply why it can't be one of the extra cars...??

 

[printman2000]

I still don't understand. Anyone know what about road grade crossings is effected by having less than 30 axles?

 

[Steve4031]

I still don't understand. Anyone know what about road grade crossings is effected by having less than 30 axles?

Maybe it is something to do with the circuits that cause the crosing gates to go down . . . not exactly sure. But those are somehow triggered by the train passing over a segment of track before the crossing.

 

[printman2000]

I still don't understand. Anyone know what about road grade crossings is effected by having less than 30 axles?

Maybe it is something to do with the circuits that cause the crosing gates to go down . . . not exactly sure. But those are somehow triggered by the train passing over a segment of track before the crossing.

I would hope that the number of axles does not effect that. I believe the locos are setup to trip those.

 

[ns4eva]

I still don't understand. Anyone know what about road grade crossings is effected by having less than 30 axles?

Maybe it is something to do with the circuits that cause the crosing gates to go down . . . not exactly sure. But those are somehow triggered by the train passing over a segment of track before the crossing.

I would hope that the number of axles does not effect that. I believe the locos are setup to trip those.

Here is some reading about this subject.How Railroad Crossing Signals Work: Detection Circuits

 

[the Other Mike]

Just confirmed with a pax on board that the City is now a 7 car, one engine train. CN had a problem with a five car train hitting the hot box detectors at pax train speed so they imposed a 30 axle minimum on the City. Could we get the lounge car back?

30 axles? THIRTY axles? If the detector tells them they really have 30 axles do they have to stop the train and look for the two they lost? Since so far as I know, everything Amtrak runs, power included, has four axles, this is an impossible number.

Recently on the Sunset I heard different numbers called out by two hot box detectors and as I opened my eyes and turned up the scanner, my brother asked what's wrong ? I just answered we lost half a truck. He started to get concerned and worried so I just said " Don't worry about it, we're on UP tracks.

 

[had8ley]

Sorry, but with someone that has the definitave inside scoop (read: employee) the 30 axle minimum has not a solitary single thing to do with the detectors. It's for the road grade crossings. Now with the being said, no one can tell me what a 30 axle minimum train does to a grade crossing that a longer one doesn't but again, nothing at all regarding the detectors.

My info came from an Amtrak employee; he's been fairly reliable in the past BUT I got to thinking. The lone engine City breaks down and the CN sends an engine to the rescue. Does the freight engine have to round up 6 or 7 cars, depending if he is six axled, just to rescue a dead in the water train?