Coast Starlight Bedrooms

[buckhouse2006]

Hi,

Traveling in August. Will be in car 1430 (north bound) and 1130 (sound bound). Roomette 9 both ways. Really doesn't matter, but I want to know what side the room is. The Sleeping car virtual tour site doesn't answer my question.

 

[LA Resident]

Hi,

Traveling in August. Will be in car 1430 (north bound) and 1130 (sound bound). Roomette 9 both ways. Really doesn't matter, but I want to know what side the room is. The Sleeping car virtual tour site doesn't answer my question.

If you read through the threads on this topic, you will see that the answer is: no one can say for sure.

Many times the even-numbered roomettes are on the ocean side going up. But not always.

Ditto for train 11.

As most people posting on this thread have said, relax and enjoy the view from your roomette from whichever side, and spend much of your sightseeing time in the PPC. It's the special treat on the CS and allows you to see everything from one seat!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Earlier you were lamenting that Amtrak is wasting thousands of dollars by forcing people to call up and get their room numbers but now you want them to waste thousands of dollars, countless man hours, interfere with other train movements just so they can ruin the views of the mountains in favor of views of the ocean. I'm confused. Do you want them to waste money or not?

Is anything you say not some sort of intentionally misworded fallicy? Your steadfast refusal to debate what I actually say and to ignore the *source* of each complaint just so you can mouth off to me is tiresome. You seemed so educated and reasonable when I first arrived. Such a pity. I never claimed any dollar amount. Those are just words you're putting in my mouth. How much do you honestly think it would cost Amtrak to spec out a specific orientation and then simply stick with it? Under normal operations no cars would need to be specifically reoriented unless and until they were being changed out. Having the orientation of each car be a known quantity would allow the reservation system to plan out which way each room was facing and perhaps Amtrak could even sell a known side of the car as a premium over the standard bedroom (or even coach) fee. It may not work out for whatever reason, but I don't see the harm in suggesting it as an added value that could be charged on top of general ticket rates. If the cost was negligable then they could simply offer this pre-determined orientation for free.

 

[AlanB]

Earlier you were lamenting that Amtrak is wasting thousands of dollars by forcing people to call up and get their room numbers but now you want them to waste thousands of dollars, countless man hours, interfere with other train movements just so they can ruin the views of the mountains in favor of views of the ocean. I'm confused. Do you want them to waste money or not?

Is anything you say not some sort of intentionally misworded fallicy? Your steadfast refusal to debate what I actually say and to ignore the *source* of each complaint just so you can mouth off to me is tiresome. You seemed so educated and reasonable when I first arrived. Such a pity. I never claimed any dollar amount. Those are just words you're putting in my mouth. How much do you honestly think it would cost Amtrak to spec out a specific orientation and then simply stick with it? Under normal operations no cars would need to be specifically reoriented unless and until they were being changed out. Having the orientation of each car be a known quantity would allow the reservation system to plan out which way each room was facing and perhaps Amtrak could even sell a known side of the car as a premium over the standard bedroom (or even coach) fee. It may not work out for whatever reason, but I don't see the harm in suggesting it as an added value that could be charged on top of general ticket rates. If the cost was negligable then they could simply offer this pre-determined orientation for free.

The only thing tiresome is your continued bashing of Amtrak without in most cases any understanding of how and why things work and are the way they are.

Next, I'm aware that you never claimed an amount. I'm here telling you that the amount of money that would have to be spent to fullfill your wishes here would be considerably more than you think, and far more than will ever be wasted by having a few phone reservation agents fielding calls from those who want their sleeper room numbers and I'm not saying that it wouldn't be smart for Amtrak to fix that email issue.

These cars aren't fixed in their consists. They are routinely removed and shuffled for any number of reasons. At the very least, every car must be taken out of daily operation once every 92 days for a FRA mandated inspection that lasts 2 days. Annually they are taken out for 2 weeks for yet another mandated inspection. This doesn't even begin to speak to cars that have to be taken out for repairs and other reasons like late running trains or intensive cleanings.

If Amtrak has to stop and spin cars around every time they break up a consist, that's added switching time. That costs big bucks! And of course in the case of a last minute bad ordered car, having to stop and worry about flipping the replacement car around means further delaying the train's departure and increasing expenses. Something that will anger people far more than not knowing which way their sleeper will face.

Then there are those occasions where something happens to a train while enroute that causes the train to be reversed back to its originating point. Many times it is not possible to turn the entire train, leaving the rooms backwards from the norm.

Even VIA rail doesn't try to guarantee which way a car will face on its premier train the Canadian, and for good reason. It's simply not practical.

 

[zephyr17]

I do want to point out that Amtrak has never advertised, marketed or otherwise stated or implied that bedrooms would face the ocean on the Coast Starlight. It is purely an urban legend, and never a service promised by Amtrak. Reasonable people should simply not expect it, since Amtrak has never set those expectations.

BTW-the same legend applied to the SP Lark in its glory years, perhaps retroactively. It was pointed out by Dennis Ryan and Joe Shine in their "Southern Pacific Passenger Trains - Vol 1 Night Trains of the Coast Route" that this was untrue even then. Because of the lack of vestibules in the 3-unit Lark Club Diner/Lounge, the cars adjacent to it HAD to run with the vestibules next to the Lark Club per FRA regulations. So one of those cars had to run with the bedrooms facing inland. And because bedrooms and compartments were the higher level accomodations, SP ran all-bedroom/compartment cars next to the Lark Club for the convienence of their higher-paying passengers. In addition SP operating policies were to run sleepers with the aisle side facing inside where the run included double track. Also, unlike the Superliners of today which are designed to run either direction, cars then then had a strong orientation; the lengthwise beds in all accomodation types all faced the same direction to run with the foot of the beds forward. And even then they got attached to trains backwards either deliberately as described above, or by omission.

This is probably a 70 or 80 year old legend, and apparently never really true. So even SP in the 40s and early 50s, when luxury overnight trains still made a profit carrying business travelers and so SP was motivated to cater to them, they didn't promise or provide the amenity of ocean facing bedrooms in all cars.

 

[LA Resident]

I do want to point out that Amtrak has never advertised, marketed or otherwise stated or implied that bedrooms would face the ocean on the Coast Starlight. It is purely an urban legend, and never a service promised by Amtrak. Reasonable people should simply not expect it, since Amtrak has never set those expectations.

BTW-the same legend applied to the SP Lark in its glory years, perhaps retroactively. It was pointed out by Dennis Ryan and Joe Shine in their "Southern Pacific Passenger Trains - Vol 1 Night Trains of the Coast Route" that this was untrue even then. Because of the lack of vestibules in the 3-unit Lark Club Diner/Lounge, the cars adjacent to it HAD to run with the vestibules next to the Lark Club per FRA regulations. So one of those cars had to run with the bedrooms facing inland. And because bedrooms and compartments were the higher level accomodations, SP ran all-bedroom/compartment cars next to the Lark Club for the convienence of their higher-paying passengers. In addition SP operating policies were to run sleepers with the aisle side facing inside where the run included double track. Also, unlike the Superliners of today which are designed to run either direction, cars then then had a strong orientation; the lengthwise beds in all accomodation types all faced the same direction to run with the foot of the beds forward. And even then they got attached to trains backwards either deliberately as described above, or by omission.

This is probably a 70 or 80 year old legend, and apparently never really true. So even SP in the 40s and early 50s, when luxury overnight trains still made a profit carrying business travelers and so SP was motivated to cater to them, they didn't promise or provide the amenity of ocean facing bedrooms in all cars.

Thanks for the useful information! Fascinating about the Lark. Can you tell anything more about what sounds like an incredible dining/lounge adventure: the 3-car club diner/lounge.

And I assume you came across this info through the cited book or other secondary sources, that you weren't a (young) adult plying the LA-SF route in the late 40s, early 50s!!! But if you were, all the more power to you!!

 

[zephyr17]

The Lark Club was an articulated 3 unit car, with the middle car sharing trucks with the other 2. The articulation made it possible to have a it almost completely open between the 2 service cars, so the diner lounge space was 2 cars long. The first car was a dormitory/kitchen, the second was the diner, and the third the lounge, although the "diner" and "lounge" sections did double duty. They served dinner and breakfast, but breakfast was much more popular than dinner, and, of course, the call for lounge seating in the morning was not great. Only 8 tables were pure diner tables and only those were set up to serve dinner seating 24. The rest of the diner had seating somewhat like todays Cross Country Cafe cars, and served as an extension of lounge space. The opposite was true at breakfast, when the entire diner was set up for breakfast, as well as the forward half of the lounge, seating 64 at one sitting. From 1949 to 1957 they even had a phone booth and mobile phone service. Doesn't seem like much today, but it was a very big deal then. They ran on the Lark until 1965, although in the later years, menu selections and service levels were greatly reduced. The Lark itself survived until 1968, and was the last train SP was able to successfully discontinue until the advent of Amtrak (although not for lack of trying).

If you can find the excellent Shine/Ryan book, it has numerous pictures of the Lark Club interior, including builder's photos taken by Pullman when the cars were brand new, as well as shots of various menus and ads.

Unfortunately, neither of the Lark Club cars survived, although a very similiar Cascade Club is preserved by the Pacific Locomotive Association in Niles Canyon near Fremont, CA.

I never had the pleasure of riding the Lark, although I have seen it. Fortunately, I did have the opportunity to ride Santa Fe's superb Super Chief. My first ride on the coast route was in 1958 aboard the Coast Daylight as a child, when it still was in full Daylight regalia. In 1970 I rode the Pacific Railroad Society's "Mountain Outin'" special over Tehachapi Pass. It had a Shasta Daylight triple unit Coffee Shop/Diner in its 22 car consist, which I remember well.

 

[LA Resident]

The Lark Club was an articulated 3 unit car, with the middle car sharing trucks with the other 2. The articulation made it possible to have a it almost completely open between the 2 service cars, so the diner lounge space was 2 cars long. The first car was a dormitory/kitchen, the second was the diner, and the third the lounge, although the "diner" and "lounge" sections did double duty. They served dinner and breakfast, but breakfast was much more popular than dinner, and, of course, the call for lounge seating in the morning was not great. Only 8 tables were pure diner tables and only those were set up to serve dinner seating 24. The rest of the diner had seating somewhat like todays Cross Country Cafe cars, and served as an extension of lounge space. The opposite was true at breakfast, when the entire diner was set up for breakfast, as well as the forward half of the lounge, seating 64 at one sitting. From 1949 to 1957 they even had a phone booth and mobile phone service. Doesn't seem like much today, but it was a very big deal then. They ran on the Lark until 1965, although in the later years, menu selections and service levels were greatly reduced. The Lark itself survived until 1968, and was the last train SP was able to successfully discontinue until the advent of Amtrak (although not for lack of trying).

If you can find the excellent Shine/Ryan book, it has numerous pictures of the Lark Club interior, including builder's photos taken by Pullman when the cars were brand new, as well as shots of various menus and ads.

Unfortunately, neither of the Lark Club cars survived, although a very similiar Cascade Club is preserved by the Pacific Locomotive Association in Niles Canyon near Fremont, CA.

I never had the pleasure of riding the Lark, although I have seen it. Fortunately, I did have the opportunity to ride Santa Fe's superb Super Chief. My first ride on the coast route was in 1958 aboard the Coast Daylight as a child, when it still was in full Daylight regalia. In 1970 I rode the Pacific Railroad Society's "Mountain Outin'" special over Tehachapi Pass. It had a Shasta Daylight triple unit Coffee Shop/Diner in its 22 car consist, which I remember well.

Thanks again for your posts. I first rode the Daylight in 1956 as four-year old tike, from SD/LA to San Jose. All I really remember is how gleaming the silver coaches were and how hard the doors between cars were to pull open!

My first Super Chief ride didn't come until summer 1971, on the same day that Amtrak took over the passenger rail system. Fortunately, there wasn't even an Amtrak nameplate yet on the train; it was still the superb Santa Fe service in every way.

My cousin used to take the Valley Daylight two or three times a year between LA and Fresno, where he had summer jobs. I guess the Tehachapi Loop part of the ride was always quite a thrill.

I guess the Via Rail Canadian is the only North American train still able to convey the luxury of the heyday of passenger travel in the US. Ironic.

 

[leemell]

The Lark Club was an articulated 3 unit car, with the middle car sharing trucks with the other 2. The articulation made it possible to have a it almost completely open between the 2 service cars, so the diner lounge space was 2 cars long. The first car was a dormitory/kitchen, the second was the diner, and the third the lounge, although the "diner" and "lounge" sections did double duty. They served dinner and breakfast, but breakfast was much more popular than dinner, and, of course, the call for lounge seating in the morning was not great. Only 8 tables were pure diner tables and only those were set up to serve dinner seating 24. The rest of the diner had seating somewhat like todays Cross Country Cafe cars, and served as an extension of lounge space. The opposite was true at breakfast, when the entire diner was set up for breakfast, as well as the forward half of the lounge, seating 64 at one sitting. From 1949 to 1957 they even had a phone booth and mobile phone service. Doesn't seem like much today, but it was a very big deal then. They ran on the Lark until 1965, although in the later years, menu selections and service levels were greatly reduced. The Lark itself survived until 1968, and was the last train SP was able to successfully discontinue until the advent of Amtrak (although not for lack of trying).

If you can find the excellent Shine/Ryan book, it has numerous pictures of the Lark Club interior, including builder's photos taken by Pullman when the cars were brand new, as well as shots of various menus and ads.

Unfortunately, neither of the Lark Club cars survived, although a very similiar Cascade Club is preserved by the Pacific Locomotive Association in Niles Canyon near Fremont, CA.

I never had the pleasure of riding the Lark, although I have seen it. Fortunately, I did have the opportunity to ride Santa Fe's superb Super Chief. My first ride on the coast route was in 1958 aboard the Coast Daylight as a child, when it still was in full Daylight regalia. In 1970 I rode the Pacific Railroad Society's "Mountain Outin'" special over Tehachapi Pass. It had a Shasta Daylight triple unit Coffee Shop/Diner in its 22 car consist, which I remember well.

Thanks again for your posts. I first rode the Daylight in 1956 as four-year old tike, from SD/LA to San Jose. All I really remember is how gleaming the silver coaches were and how hard the doors between cars were to pull open!

My first Super Chief ride didn't come until summer 1971, on the same day that Amtrak took over the passenger rail system. Fortunately, there wasn't even an Amtrak nameplate yet on the train; it was still the superb Santa Fe service in every way.

My cousin used to take the Valley Daylight two or three times a year between LA and Fresno, where he had summer jobs. I guess the Tehachapi Loop part of the ride was always quite a thrill.

I guess the Via Rail Canadian is the only North American train still able to convey the luxury of the heyday of passenger travel in the US. Ironic.

Although not the same, the State of California and Amtrak have all the ducks lined up to reestablish the Coast Daylight from LA to downtown San Francisco. The Surfliner 798/799 would change to 98/99. All they need is money. -_-

 

[LA Resident]

The Lark Club was an articulated 3 unit car, with the middle car sharing trucks with the other 2. The articulation made it possible to have a it almost completely open between the 2 service cars, so the diner lounge space was 2 cars long. The first car was a dormitory/kitchen, the second was the diner, and the third the lounge, although the "diner" and "lounge" sections did double duty. They served dinner and breakfast, but breakfast was much more popular than dinner, and, of course, the call for lounge seating in the morning was not great. Only 8 tables were pure diner tables and only those were set up to serve dinner seating 24. The rest of the diner had seating somewhat like todays Cross Country Cafe cars, and served as an extension of lounge space. The opposite was true at breakfast, when the entire diner was set up for breakfast, as well as the forward half of the lounge, seating 64 at one sitting. From 1949 to 1957 they even had a phone booth and mobile phone service. Doesn't seem like much today, but it was a very big deal then. They ran on the Lark until 1965, although in the later years, menu selections and service levels were greatly reduced. The Lark itself survived until 1968, and was the last train SP was able to successfully discontinue until the advent of Amtrak (although not for lack of trying).

If you can find the excellent Shine/Ryan book, it has numerous pictures of the Lark Club interior, including builder's photos taken by Pullman when the cars were brand new, as well as shots of various menus and ads.

Unfortunately, neither of the Lark Club cars survived, although a very similiar Cascade Club is preserved by the Pacific Locomotive Association in Niles Canyon near Fremont, CA.

I never had the pleasure of riding the Lark, although I have seen it. Fortunately, I did have the opportunity to ride Santa Fe's superb Super Chief. My first ride on the coast route was in 1958 aboard the Coast Daylight as a child, when it still was in full Daylight regalia. In 1970 I rode the Pacific Railroad Society's "Mountain Outin'" special over Tehachapi Pass. It had a Shasta Daylight triple unit Coffee Shop/Diner in its 22 car consist, which I remember well.

Thanks again for your posts. I first rode the Daylight in 1956 as four-year old tike, from SD/LA to San Jose. All I really remember is how gleaming the silver coaches were and how hard the doors between cars were to pull open!

My first Super Chief ride didn't come until summer 1971, on the same day that Amtrak took over the passenger rail system. Fortunately, there wasn't even an Amtrak nameplate yet on the train; it was still the superb Santa Fe service in every way.

My cousin used to take the Valley Daylight two or three times a year between LA and Fresno, where he had summer jobs. I guess the Tehachapi Loop part of the ride was always quite a thrill.

I guess the Via Rail Canadian is the only North American train still able to convey the luxury of the heyday of passenger travel in the US. Ironic.

Although not the same, the State of California and Amtrak have all the ducks lined up to reestablish the Coast Daylight from LA to downtown San Francisco. The Surfliner 798/799 would change to 98/99. All they need is money. -_-

Let's hope it's at least a little better than the current 798/799 trains which have old Heritage coaches with dirty scratched windows, and a tiny little snack counter in the Heritage BC car. If it's going to be between a 10-11 hour trip, a diner, even some sort of lounge, would certainly be in order. There's no way to attract riders on what is admittedly a very slow route without some amenities. Otherwise, for example northbound, given the fact that the present 799 only leaves LA less than three hours before the CS, I would think most people would still want to ride the CS. What difference does it make to get into the Bay area at 7:30 p.m. as opposed to 9:30 p.m?

Now if they ran it up the west side of the Bay after San Jose, that might attract some riders put off by the bus transfer at Oakland (which I assume would be the east Bay terminus, not Emeryville.

 

[zephyr17]

The Lark Club was an articulated 3 unit car, with the middle car sharing trucks with the other 2. The articulation made it possible to have a it almost completely open between the 2 service cars, so the diner lounge space was 2 cars long. The first car was a dormitory/kitchen, the second was the diner, and the third the lounge, although the "diner" and "lounge" sections did double duty. They served dinner and breakfast, but breakfast was much more popular than dinner, and, of course, the call for lounge seating in the morning was not great. Only 8 tables were pure diner tables and only those were set up to serve dinner seating 24. The rest of the diner had seating somewhat like todays Cross Country Cafe cars, and served as an extension of lounge space. The opposite was true at breakfast, when the entire diner was set up for breakfast, as well as the forward half of the lounge, seating 64 at one sitting. From 1949 to 1957 they even had a phone booth and mobile phone service. Doesn't seem like much today, but it was a very big deal then. They ran on the Lark until 1965, although in the later years, menu selections and service levels were greatly reduced. The Lark itself survived until 1968, and was the last train SP was able to successfully discontinue until the advent of Amtrak (although not for lack of trying).

If you can find the excellent Shine/Ryan book, it has numerous pictures of the Lark Club interior, including builder's photos taken by Pullman when the cars were brand new, as well as shots of various menus and ads.

Unfortunately, neither of the Lark Club cars survived, although a very similiar Cascade Club is preserved by the Pacific Locomotive Association in Niles Canyon near Fremont, CA.

I never had the pleasure of riding the Lark, although I have seen it. Fortunately, I did have the opportunity to ride Santa Fe's superb Super Chief. My first ride on the coast route was in 1958 aboard the Coast Daylight as a child, when it still was in full Daylight regalia. In 1970 I rode the Pacific Railroad Society's "Mountain Outin'" special over Tehachapi Pass. It had a Shasta Daylight triple unit Coffee Shop/Diner in its 22 car consist, which I remember well.

Thanks again for your posts. I first rode the Daylight in 1956 as four-year old tike, from SD/LA to San Jose. All I really remember is how gleaming the silver coaches were and how hard the doors between cars were to pull open!

My first Super Chief ride didn't come until summer 1971, on the same day that Amtrak took over the passenger rail system. Fortunately, there wasn't even an Amtrak nameplate yet on the train; it was still the superb Santa Fe service in every way.

My cousin used to take the Valley Daylight two or three times a year between LA and Fresno, where he had summer jobs. I guess the Tehachapi Loop part of the ride was always quite a thrill.

I guess the Via Rail Canadian is the only North American train still able to convey the luxury of the heyday of passenger travel in the US. Ironic.

Although not the same, the State of California and Amtrak have all the ducks lined up to reestablish the Coast Daylight from LA to downtown San Francisco. The Surfliner 798/799 would change to 98/99. All they need is money. -_-

Although the new "Daylight" would be about as much like the SP's mid-50's "Coast Daylight" (aka "Morning Daylight") as the Southwest Chief is like the Santa Fe "Super Chief". Same route, that's about it. Although, unlike the "Super Chief", the new train would probably be a better train than the sorry late-stage "Coast Daylight". :unsure:

 

[mrsmayberrry]

I have read here that most people who get a bedroom on the Coast Starlight usually have the bedroom facing the ocean. Has anyone ever got a bedroom that did not face the ocean? Is it safe to assume that MOST of the time the bedrooms face the ocean. Yes I have heard what they say about Assuming,but...i am a glutton for punishment.

The four times we've ridden, yes, they were on the Ocean side. But others on this site who've taken the CS say this is NOT always the case, depending on how the consist is turned around or otherwise tinkered with at the LAX and SEA endpoints. I guess the best answer is probably yes, but not a guarantee!

Northbound from Santa Barbara my upper level bedroom faced East, not towards the beach

 

[zephyr17]

I have read here that most people who get a bedroom on the Coast Starlight usually have the bedroom facing the ocean. Has anyone ever got a bedroom that did not face the ocean? Is it safe to assume that MOST of the time the bedrooms face the ocean. Yes I have heard what they say about Assuming,but...i am a glutton for punishment.

The four times we've ridden, yes, they were on the Ocean side. But others on this site who've taken the CS say this is NOT always the case, depending on how the consist is turned around or otherwise tinkered with at the LAX and SEA endpoints. I guess the best answer is probably yes, but not a guarantee!

Northbound from Santa Barbara my upper level bedroom faced East, not towards the beach

Most of the time, it carries sleepers oriented both ways. The last time I took it, the 30 car had bedrooms facing the ocean, and the 31 and 32 had them facing inland.

As noted, there is no promise that Amtrak makes regarding sleeper orientation and operational realities mean they can face either way.

Guest, the "best answer" is you lucked out. It is a flip of the coin. Your sample set is too small to be a valid predictive base.