Connections missing from Amtrak reservation system

[thully]

I’ve been looking into Amtrak trips this summer/fall, and have found an annoying issue with the website. If I put in a trip that requires multiple connections, I frequently find that some connections that show up when looking at subsegments of the trip don’t show up when looking at the complete trip. Sometimes, it leaves out the most obvious route and instead suggests a far longer route.

For instance, if I look at Ann Arbor to San Diego for the Gathering, it only taking the Wolverine to the California Zephyr to a bus+San Joaquin+bus, and no Southwest Chief. Ironically, the Southwest Chief shows up when searching for ARB-EMY the same day, as well as when searching for CHI-SAN and ARB-LAX. This also happens when searching EMY-SAN - if I search EMY-LAX and LAX-SAN, I see several San Joaquin+bus+Surfliner trips that should be legal connections yet aren’t listed for EMY-SAN.

I occasionally see this on trips with only 1 connection required as well - for instance, ARB-BOS only shows the LSL with a connection via Toledo bus+5 hour layover, and CL+Regional with both connections in Toledo and Chicago, but not the LSL with a connection in Chicago. On the return trip it shows LSL with connections in both Toledo and Chicago, but no Capitol Limited. Also, eastbound trips on the Empire Builder to ARB seem to only offer the LSL+Toledo bus as a connection and not the evening Wolverine. This is checking months in the future, so it has nothing to do with trains not running on certain days.

Has anyone seen this as well? Is there a reliable way to report this to Amtrak, and is there a way to ensure you get guaranteed connections if you want to book this (you obviously can do multi-city, though I’m not sure connections are guaranteed)? I suspect they removed connections from the system during COVID and forgot to read them when routes were restored…

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Every possible city pair needs to be manually inputted into Arrow. Many have not been inputted.
You could call or do a “contact us” to ask them to look into this. Provide the info you have to help them understand the issue.

 

[jis]

In the past if I found a connection missing I have sent them a message via email asking to have it added. That has worked about half the time. I have nothing better to suggest beyond that.

 

[Trogdor]

Every possible city pair needs to be manually inputted into Arrow. Many have not been inputted.
You could call or do a “contact us” to ask them to look into this. Provide the info you have to help them understand the issue.

I don't think every individual city pair needs to be input into the system. As I recall, connections showing up is a complicated mix of train-specific and city-specific connections, along with specific connections that may be hidden for various reasons.

Somewhere in the inner dungeons of Arrow there is a minimum connect time table that exists with some default value, which can be overridden on a city-specific, train-specific, or connection-specific level. From there, a bunch of connections can be generically generated. However, it's also just as likely to give you a bunch of nonsense (many years ago, searching MKE-CHI gave you the Hiawathas, plus an Empire Builder-Coast Starlight-California Zephyr combination, for example; now that no longer shows up even though each of those connections can be valid individually). They also generally limit connections on multi-frequency routes to just one or two connecting trains, even though there might be a dozen or such. That way you don't see a Chief-to-every-Surfliner connection showing up, but just the first one. For this and other reasons, they have tended to avoid letting an anything-to-anything connection show up by default (even if it can be valid if ticketed through a multi-city).

One likely scenario is that, with the COVID-era service cuts, the default connections that used to exist to connect Michigan trains (351 specifically) to southern California were suspended (perhaps the connecting Surfliner train was cancelled for a while). They probably updated the connection table, but only for certain trains, and with all of the Michigan service changes over the past year, probably just forgot to add 351/354 to these connections. Honestly not that surprising, given 1) the frequently changing service levels over the past couple of years and 2) the staff attrition in numerous departments that hasn't been backfilled (and, even if it has, they wouldn't have the experience to immediately catch on to everything that should happen). I know a few of the foremost experts in Arrow back-end functionality have retired in the past 5-10 years, and, with that, went institutional knowledge dating back to basically the system's creation.

 

[zephyr17]

My understanding, based on posts bt AmtrakInsider on FlyerTalk's AGR forum who worked for Amtrak in AGR, all connections must indeed be manually entered in Arrow.

 

[Maglev]

I found a whole train that was missing:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/amtrak-not-showing-chief-for-nyp-lax.80732/

 

[daybeers]

This is another example of why the reservation system needs to be replaced. Amtrak is losing so much money on missing connections and weird fare structures on the connections that do exist.

 

[jis]

This is another example of why the reservation system needs to be replaced. Amtrak is losing so much money on missing connections and weird fare structures on the connections that do exist.

But what really took the cake was sending out messages to everyone saying their train is canceled when they were actually not. I have never heard of any other transportation company even in the fourth world (figuratively speaking) pull off such a stunt and then not a peep of an apology.

 

[west point]

I cannot imagine how hard it is going to be to replace the reservation system. At this time suspect there not enough competent persons to install a new reservation system at Amtrak's pay levels. First it might be that the old and new systems would need to run in parallel?

 

[joelkfla]

I cannot imagine how hard it is going to be to replace the reservation system. At this time suspect there not enough competent persons to install a new reservation system at Amtrak's pay levels. First it might be that the old and new systems would need to run in parallel?

They would probably outsource the project

--- and the vendor would totally screw it up!

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

I cannot imagine how hard it is going to be to replace the reservation system. At this time suspect there not enough competent persons to install a new reservation system at Amtrak's pay levels. First it might be that the old and new systems would need to run in parallel?

Not a project for the faint of heart. They would definitely have to run the new and the old in parallel for a while to get the bugs out.

They would probably outsource the project
--- and the vendor would totally screw it up!

Hopefully they would get a competent vendor and not do something like hiring an auto manufacturer to implement your centralized traffic control system

 

[Devil's Advocate]

My understanding, based on posts bt AmtrakInsider on FlyerTalk's AGR forum who worked for Amtrak in AGR, all connections must indeed be manually entered in Arrow.

Has anyone ever tried to corroborate this? Amtrak says they serve 500+ stops and if we assume longer LD routes have around 30 stops that is an insane number of potential connections. Even if ARROW had no method for automating this process most companies would have resorted to a middleware solution by now.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Back in 2014 the NER that connects to the LSL during the weekdays wasn’t available for the Sunday I was planning to travel. This was because some NERs change #’s on weekends (guessing because they have a slightly different time slot). I mentioned it on. AU and Anthony got them to manually input it so I could book my trip.

 

[zephyr17]

Back when AGR still was zone based, people on Flyer Talk would ask AGRInsider to try to get connections added, which he would try to do by contacting the folks controlling it and was successful at it in most cases. People with the "xyzInsider" handles at FlyerTalk were vetted and were representing their companies there.

The individual connection entries was what AGRInsider said. The difficulty in maintaining the connections when schedules are changed tends to corroborate that in my mind. Certainly however it is supported is much harder than it ought to be, given the issues there are with it. Whatever the methodology actually is, it clearly sucks.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

So a team of clerks spends several days or weeks manually entering hundreds of thousands of connections after each major update? If ARROW data cannot process bulk imports or be updated by middleware then why does it still exist?

 

[zephyr17]

Well, they don't set up connections between every point in the system and never have, so that number is substantially lower.

But you have put your finger on why there may be a, say, Eugene-Salt Lake connection set up in the system between 11 and 6 at SAC, but not a Chico-Elko one, even though they use the exact same connecting trains.

As to why there is no UI and wrap that would allow someone to enter two connecting train numbers and the connecting station and then generates all the connecting station and train info for input to Arrow, assuming it does require it, I do not know. Middleware and application integration design was my main responsibility before retirement. It seems a pretty straightforward problem to me. Although counting to ten without using one's fingers does seem beyond the capability of Amtrak IT.

The best design IMHO would be algorithmic, set up rules for valid connections (60 minutes or more, etc), set up a black list for connections they don't want to be generated by train and connecting point (say, the Cardinal from the Builder. That list should be shorter than a white list) and let the system do it itself.

 

[lstone19]

The best design IMHO would be algorithmic, set up rules for valid connections (60 minutes or more, etc), set up a black list for connections they don't want to be generated by train and connecting point (say, the Cardinal from the Builder. That list should be shorter than a white list) and let the system do it itself.

From my experience working for an airline (although not in anything to do with Reservations), there seem to be two approaches to building connections. The first, which Amtrak seems to use (and, I believe, Southwest Airlines), which is build all the connections you want to sell in advance and only sell those. That works reasonably well for a closed system such as Amtrak's and Southwest's (Southwest does not sell connections to or from other carriers). The other is to build connections on demand and keep doing so as another screen page of possibilities is requested. So in my carrier's system, if I asked for ABC to DEF, it would first show non-stops, then through flights (one or more stops but no change of flight numbers), then single connections, then double connections. When I was trying to find a way to fly employee standby, I would sometimes need to dig deep to find a good way and after the obvious connections at hubs, would start building trips that were hub to spoke to hub (some of those connections at spokes end up being same plane, same crew, but different flight number*). No way all those connections at spokes were pre-loaded as valid connections.

 

[thully]

Would there be any risk in booking connections that should show up but don’t via the “multi-city” option? If so, is there a better alternative to book the trip that does not involve sending an e-mail to some broad customer service e-mail and hoping for them to update the connections? Currently looking at the eastbound Empire Builder from SEA connecting to 354 - weirdly, while 28 to 354 shows up as a connection, 8 to 354 doesn’t. Obviously, for some of these eastbound connections you run the risk of misconnects (and I think the EB is the worst given it’s the last western train to arrive in CHI), though given my connection isn’t an LD sleeper I’d rather chance it and overnight only if necessary.

 

[TheVig]

Would there be any risk in booking connections that should show up but don’t via the “multi-city” option? If so, is there a better alternative to book the trip that does not involve sending an e-mail to some broad customer service e-mail and hoping for them to update the connections? Currently looking at the eastbound Empire Builder from SEA connecting to 354 - weirdly, while 28 to 354 shows up as a connection, 8 to 354 doesn’t. Obviously, for some of these eastbound connections you run the risk of misconnects (and I think the EB is the worst given it’s the last western train to arrive in CHI), though given my connection isn’t an LD sleeper I’d rather chance it and overnight only if necessary.

I sometimes have to use the multi city option when booking CLT to WBG. Other times booking that R/T the normal way works fine.

Using the multi-city option, Amtrak clearly states to pay attention to allow enough time between connections, and that when using the multi-city feature, connections are not guaranteed.

 

[zephyr17]

I sometimes have to use the multi city option when booking CLT to WBG. Other times booking that R/T the normal way works fine.

Using the multi-city option, Amtrak clearly states to pay attention to allow enough time between connections, and that when using the multi-city feature, connections are not guaranteed.

As a practical and operational matter, if 28 to 354 is guaranteed, 8 to 354 is as well, irrespective of how it is booked.

When managing misconnects, Amtrak really does not look at how a reservation was created. They look at everyone whose reservation connects from train A to train to train B. The people who can be out of luck are those on separate reservations.

 

[thully]

That sounds reassuring - I thought there may be a difference between using multi-city vs booking the itinerary via the round-trip option when dealing with missed connections.

Though that compensation in this case may be limited to rebooking for a later Wolverine without an up charge for higher buckets - Amtrak seems to offer the Lake Shore Limited plus a bus from Toledo (with a TOL layover from 2:55am to 6:30am) as a CHI-ARB routing, which I figure they may use as an excuse to not pay for a hotel. In that case, I figure I’d just pay for a hotel in Chicago rather than endure that…

 

[zephyr17]

They can and do "protect" you in various ways. I recall them chartering a van for some inbound Michigan service passengers on a late Builder.

The guarantee is they will get you there, not that you'll layover at a hotel for the next day's train. This is particularly true of Corridor services. If there is a late bus that serves your station, they will put you on that bus. That has happened to me when the Starlight missed the last San Diegan/Surfliner. They put me on the 1 am (IIRC) bus. Lots of people have missed the Coast part of the Coast Starlight because westbound to northbound misconnects in LA are generally put on the San Joaquin Thruway bus connection.

The "compensation" is getting you where you are ticketed. If that necessitates a hotel layover they will provide a hotel that direct bills them, plus an cash allowance for cab fare and meals. If they put you on a late bus, your compensation is a bus ride. If you miss a sleeper accommodation or a business class seat because you are on the bus, they will refund the accommodation charge. If a coach ticket, you just get the ride.