Cruise Ships and Canada

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Bob Dylan

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Just saw on the News that Cruise Ships will not be able to Operate in Canada until March 1,2022.

This means no Inside Passage Trips to Alaska from Vancouver and no St Lawrence Seaway Cruises to Halifax and Quebec City from New York or Boston.

The story doesn't mention Ferries or cruises up the Inside Passage from Seattle.

Wondering if this means the Amtrak/ VIA Trains that cross the Border will also be affected?
 

flitcraft

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Just saw on the News that Cruise Ships will not be able to Operate in Canada until March 1,2022. This means no Inside Passage Trips to Alaska from Vancouver and no St Lawrence Seaway Cruises to Halifax and Quebec City from New York or Boston. The story doesn't mention Ferries or cruises up the Inside Passage from Seattle.
Most cruises from Seattle to Alaska will be legally barred from operating under a law that requires foreign-flagged vessels to have at least one non-US port of call on Alaska cruises operating from a US port. As far as I am aware, that rule wipes out all of the big cruise lines ships--their ships are all foreign-flagged-- because they must include a Canadian port in their itineraries. There are a few companies that run small 'adventure-cruise' boats between Seattle and Alaska that don't have to include a Canadian stop by law; but who knows whether the market is there, even for boats with 60 or 70 guests. The Clipper that runs between Seattle and Victoria is shut down till further notice. So is the Coho ferry from Port Angeles. Unless the small boats run, there isn't going to be a cruise season in the Pacific Northwest this coming season. :(
 
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railiner

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I have a long Baltic cruise booked for 30 July from New York, that includes a couple of Canadian ports of call, enroute. So at least those ports will have to be bypassed, but it is looking more and more likely that Oceania will cancel the entire 53 day cruise...should hear from them soon, I would imagine...:(
 

jiml

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There are also several Atlantic/New England cruises that call on Montreal or Quebec City that will be affected. I'm not a cruise person, but my wife is - usually joining her sister. Their most recent Alaska cruise started and ended in Seattle with the obligatory stop in Victoria, BC. It was a good excuse to take the Empire Builder out to meet them, before flying back together.;)
 

railiner

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More cruises from Seattle to Alaska will be legally barred from operating under a law that requires foreign-flagged vessels to have at least one non-US port of call on Alaska cruises operating from a US port. As far as I am aware, that rule wipes out all of the big cruise lines ships--their ships are all foreign-flagged-- because they must include a Canadian port in their itineraries. There are a few companies that run small 'adventure-cruise' boats between Seattle and Alaska that don't have to include a Canadian stop by law; but who knows whether the market is there, even for boats with 60 or 70 guests. The Clipper that runs between Seattle and Victoria is shut down till further notice. So is the Coho ferry from Port Angeles. Unless the small boats run, there isn't going to be a cruise season in the Pacific Northwest this coming season. :(
If cruising is allowed to resume in the States, but not at any "near foreign ports", perhaps the government will temporarily at least, amend the PVSA regulation's to allow foreign flagged cruise ships to do at least closed loop cruises in the US, without the requirement to call at a "near foreign port" enroute.
And also perhaps, the CBP ban on "cruises to nowhere" by foreign flagged cruise ships....
 

NS VIA Fan

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Cruise ships are a big thing here in the Maritimes. I've been in Halifax when there will be 5 in port at once and 10,000 passengers strolling around or on tours. Big $$ lost but it's for the best for one more year. (We have 10 active Covid cases in the Province right now)



You can see two ships in Halifax in this Google View. (a Renaissance Ocean at the VIA Station behind the pier)

Port.jpg


And I took this picture (below) a couple of years ago of Norwegian Jade at Halifax


20171018_120041.jpg
 

jiml

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Nice shot. I was surprised there were cruise ships there on our last visit pre-Covid. It was November, which seemed a bit late in the season.
 

railiner

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Nice shot. I was surprised there were cruise ships there on our last visit pre-Covid. It was November, which seemed a bit late in the season.
Maybe due to 'global warming', but the season for cruises seems to be stretching the envelope more each year. Many cruises have extended into the beginning of November, before repositioning to their winter homeports.

I have been on cruises calling at Halifax almost every year, since 2002.
 

railiner

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Cruise ships are a big thing here in the Maritimes. I've been in Halifax when there will be 5 in port at once and 10,000 passengers strolling around or on tours. Big $$ lost but it's for the best for one more year. (We have 10 active Covid cases in the Province right now)



You can see two ships in Halifax in this Google View. (a Renaissance Ocean at the VIA Station behind the pier)

View attachment 20546


And I took this picture (below) a couple of years ago of Norwegian Jade at Halifax


View attachment 20547
Every time I call at the Halifax port, I make my "pilgrimage' to the VIA Rail station and bus station, taking a 'shortcut' thru the Westin Nova Scotian Hotel.
And then on to the Barrington Atlantic market, to pick up a sundry or snack. Also visit the excellent maritime museum along the waterfront.:cool:
 

NS VIA Fan

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Every time I call at the Halifax port, I make my "pilgrimage' to the VIA Rail station and bus station, taking a 'shortcut' thru the Westin Nova Scotian Hotel.
And then on to the Barrington Atlantic market, to pick up a sundry or snack. Also visit the excellent maritime museum along the waterfront.:cool:
Here's some pictures from back in the day of that area with some Transatlantic Liners across from the Station. There was an overhead walkway direct from the Immigration Pier to the Station.

The founder of Cunard.....Samuel Cunard was from Halifax. Their Liners docked here and still do


 

railiner

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Here's some pictures from back in the day of that area with some Transatlantic Liners across from the Station. There was an overhead walkway direct from the Immigration Pier to the Station.

The founder of Cunard.....Samuel Cunard was from Halifax. Their Liners docked here and still do


Wow...great shots...is that the Aquitania in the photo?
Too bad the walkway is not used any more...I just cut thru the hotel parking lot, go in the back door, and then upstairs to the lobby level...:)
 

FrensicPic

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Just saw on the News that Cruise Ships will not be able to Operate in Canada until March 1,2022.

This means no Inside Passage Trips to Alaska from Vancouver and no St Lawrence Seaway Cruises to Halifax and Quebec City from New York or Boston.

The story doesn't mention Ferries or cruises up the Inside Passage from Seattle.

Wondering if this means the Amtrak/ VIA Trains that cross the Border will also be affected?
 

Devil's Advocate

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If cruise lines want more options they can choose to create a subsidiary with US registered ships staffed with Americans. It will cost a lot more but probably make more money than running no ships at all. Millions of working age Americans are still hurting for money and at risk of being kicked out onto the street. I therefore see little reason to spend government energy assisting guest worker employment so pensioners can resume speculatively booked joyrides in the middle of a pandemic. A better use of government leverage would be to push for more vaccine production. If vaccines become widely available and nearly everyone accepts them new restrictions on cruises can be lifted ahead of schedule.
 
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20th Century Rider

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Just saw on the News that Cruise Ships will not be able to Operate in Canada until March 1,2022.

This means no Inside Passage Trips to Alaska from Vancouver and no St Lawrence Seaway Cruises to Halifax and Quebec City from New York or Boston.

The story doesn't mention Ferries or cruises up the Inside Passage from Seattle.

Wondering if this means the Amtrak/ VIA Trains that cross the Border will also be affected?
Depending on the containment of the virus, new vaccines, etc etc... things may change... but then again, it's a matter of how quickly the 'big wheels of government' turn x two countries... :oops:
 

jiml

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If cruise lines want more options they can choose to create a subsidiary with US registered ships staffed with Americans. It will cost a lot more but probably make more money than running no ships at all. Millions of working age Americans are still hurting for money and at risk of being kicked out onto the street. I therefore see little reason to spend government energy assisting guest worker employment so pensioners can resume speculatively booked joyrides in the middle of a pandemic. A better use of government leverage would be to push for more vaccine production. If vaccines become widely available and nearly everyone accepts them new restrictions on cruises can be lifted ahead of schedule.
This isn't just an American thing either. All western nations are guilty of turning a blind eye to a commercial enterprise that comes about as close to slavery as one can in the modern "civilized" world. There a reason most of these ships are registered in countries with lower employment standards. The US, Canada and Britain all used to have their own flagged ships, with homegrown crews. Now I think the only one left between them is Pride Of America and its problem is being based in Hawaii, with no nearby foreign ports to serve.
 

me_little_me

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More cruises from Seattle to Alaska will be legally barred from operating under a law that requires foreign-flagged vessels to have at least one non-US port of call on Alaska cruises operating from a US port. As far as I am aware, that rule wipes out all of the big cruise lines ships--their ships are all foreign-flagged-- because they must include a Canadian port in their itineraries. There are a few companies that run small 'adventure-cruise' boats between Seattle and Alaska that don't have to include a Canadian stop by law; but who knows whether the market is there, even for boats with 60 or 70 guests. The Clipper that runs between Seattle and Victoria is shut down till further notice. So is the Coho ferry from Port Angeles. Unless the small boats run, there isn't going to be a cruise season in the Pacific Northwest this coming season. :(
What if they landed on the Russian coast and visited that famous tourist city Novoye Chaplino? I hear it's a hotbed of fun! Worth at least a 15 minute stop. :)

Never underestimate the ability of private industry to get around government regulations.
 

Dakota 400

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is that the Aquitania in the photo?
I think it is the Olympic. The funnels' color seems more White Star Line type than Cunard.

Now I think the only one left between them is Pride Of America and its problem is being based in Hawaii, with no nearby foreign ports to serve.
I have wondered if NCL would consider moving Pride of America to the West Coast for the Alaska season.

What if they landed on the Russian coast and visited that famous tourist city Novoye Chaplino? I hear it's a hotbed of fun
I looked up this community, population in 2010 was 419. Make it a cruise port: a 21st Century "boom village" for awhile? :)

Unlikely such a port or even some other more interesting ports in the Russian Far East would be considered. An Alaska cruise would require much more than 7-10 days and sea conditions in the Northern Pacific are not always very guest friendly. (I know; I have experienced them.)
 

Dakota 400

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If cruise lines want more options they can choose to create a subsidiary with US registered ships staffed with Americans. It will cost a lot more but probably make more money than running no ships at all.
That is an interesting idea. The CEO of Carnival Corporation has recently said that they essentially have no revenue. If the Company, as well as the other major cruise industry players, are going to survive, some major "out of the box" thinking is going to have to take place in 2021.
 

Bob Dylan

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That is an interesting idea. The CEO of Carnival Corporation has recently said that they essentially have no revenue. If the Company, as well as the other major cruise industry players, are going to survive, some major "out of the box" thinking is going to have to take place in 2021.
Let's hope Uncle Sam doesnt Bail them out with " Corporate Welfare"!!!
 

PVD

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It is very difficult to make a case to bail out the cruise ship industry, although it was suggested by someone in power in the not too distant past, until the facts about how little they actually pay to the US in taxes became a major point of contention. That's why they were left out of previous stimulus packages.
 

railiner

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The government has not given any funds to the cruise lines, that I am aware of.

As for NCL's Pride of America...it was once part of a three ship NCL America subsidiary, and they could not find enough American worker's willing to work the terrible working condition's of the on board jobs. Besides that, they couldn't fill three ships with enough passengers to make it viable, hence they reduced the sub fleet to just the POA. The POA is US flagged, but it has a special exception to allow it to be, since its hull was US-built, but not the superstructure or machinery. It is restricted to serve the Hawaiian market, and if it does leave that market, it gives up its right to be US flagged. NCL is not likely to give up its monopoly in that market, and will just ride out the pandemic until it can resume there.
 

PVD

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Christened right here in Manhattan by the recently departed Sec'y of Transportation, when she was Sec'y of Labor. Probably hard to do the same thing today, most large ships are built in blocks rather than keel up....
 

PVD

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Was at the Phila. Navy Yard a few years back for a project at the Penn State Engineering Facility, and wandered over to the Aker Philadelphia Shipyard (now the Philly Shipyard) to take a look at a ship (DANIEL K. INOUYE) my brother in law's company was having built. It looked way different to see those giant modules.
 

railiner

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Christened right here in Manhattan by the recently departed Sec'y of Transportation, when she was Sec'y of Labor. Probably hard to do the same thing today, most large ships are built in blocks rather than keel up....
The POA hull was built at Pascagoula, MS by Litton-Ingalls ship buidling as part of Project America, to build US cruise ships. Since there was no company in the US with the knowledge and resources to complete her, her hull was towed to Bremerhaven, Germany to be completed and fitted out by the Lloyd-Werft shipyard. The full story from Wiki...

 

flitcraft

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If cruising is allowed to resume in the States, but not at any "near foreign ports", perhaps the government will temporarily at least, amend the PVSA regulation's to allow foreign flagged cruise ships to do at least closed loop cruises in the US, without the requirement to call at a "near foreign port" enroute.
I am of two minds about this. On the one hand, the cruise industry creates lots of collateral jobs. The Seattle Times had an article commenting on the Canadian action banning cruise ship visits till a year from now, pointing out that the value to the Seattle economy was over 900 million dollars a year--in hotels, restaurants, etc. --spent by cruisers while in Seattle. These are businesses that are hurting badly as it is, and the workers in those areas are on the front lines of the economic harm of COVID.

On the other hand, spending days packed on a big ship where many of the passengers would not have been vaccinated and probably won't be strictly adhering to masking protocols--that seems like a recipe for super-spreading of COVID. I might consider a small boat adventure cruise with a few dozen passengers onboard perhaps, but a large cruise ship seems like it is asking for trouble. Only, it wouldn't be merely norovirus, it would be the much, much more serious COVID virus. The current regulations only apply to vessels with more than 100 passengers. Honestly, that would be the absolute high end of my comfort range, PVSA regs or not.
 
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