CS 14 schedule

[Phil S]

I'm sure this has been beaten to death but maybe not recently. So....

Why not start the CS out of LA a little earlier? My concern is that the departure times from SAC and even Davis are marginal at best, and if CS gets bogged down, say around San Luis O, they become brutal. The connections are the San Diego train, SL and SWC. The first is the tightest, but even there shaving 15-20 min off of it would seem practical as it runs pretty well on time. SWC connection could easily afford to give up at least 1/2 hr. SL connection is not even close.

Yes, I think even 1/2 hr would help.

What's the CS departure time been in the past?

Thanks,

Phil S

 

[Steve4031]

I think one on the issues of moving the cs to an earlier departure from lax would be the impact on commuter schedules. You don't want to shade 30 minutes off the connection with the swc because that eats into the recovery time when it's running late.

 

[tomfuller]

It depends on whether you are going to a destination between LAX and EMY.

You can get on the 6815 bus to Bakersfield and take the San Joaquin to Stockton and another bus for a short ride to Sacramento. You will arrive in Sacramento 5-6 hours before the CS even though you started half an hour later.

You miss the great coastal scenery but Sacramento is a great city to walk around as long as you get back to the station before 11PM.

 

[Trogdor]

One key factor is swimming "upstream" against the Metrolink rush in single-track territory.

There's also the issue of platform capacity in Los Angeles.

 

[tomfuller]

Get on the #763 Pacific Surfliner at 9:05 to Santa Barbara and grab a quick lunch on State Street before the Coast Starlight gets there about an hour later. It is worth the extra $11 ($30 vs. $19).

 

[Phil S]

One key factor is swimming "upstream" against the Metrolink rush in single-track territory.

There's also the issue of platform capacity in Los Angeles.

Ah, makes sense. Thank you.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Well the northbound trains can stay completely separate on double track territory until the last mile for Van Nuys, nearly 25-30 minutes north. The platforms and tracks stay separate until almost at Van Nuys, where although there are two main tracks, there is currently one boarding platform. Even moving the CS departure up one hour to 9:25, you still wouldn't be at Van Nuys until about 10:00am, and then all the Metrolink traffic is basically cleared. The platform track capacity is a very valid point though.

 

[leemell]

Well the northbound trains can stay completely separate on double track territory until the last mile for Van Nuys, nearly 25-30 minutes north. The platforms and tracks stay separate until almost at Van Nuys, where although there are two main tracks, there is currently one boarding platform. Even moving the CS departure up one hour to 9:25, you still wouldn't be at Van Nuys until about 10:00am, and then all the Metrolink traffic is basically cleared. The platform track capacity is a very valid point though.

They are in preliminary engineering do to be complete in April for a platform between the tracks and tunnel access. The tracks will be renovated from Woodman to Raymer and moved south one track width. The end result will be complete two track operation when they complete the double tracking to Chatsworth (also in engineering) from LAUS to Chatsworth.

 

[Phil S]

So, once this is done, would there be any interest on the part of Amtrak to move up the schedule? A full hour seems like too much to ask of the San Diego passengers. And did the CS ever leave LA earlier than it does now? I know I could look that up but some of you folks know this stuff by heart.

 

[Trogdor]

No, because you still have platform issues in LA, connection issues from train 3, plus connections from San Diego, plus the fact that with all of the Surfliner maintenance and servicing that occurs overnight, it's still pushing it at times to get 14 out by 10 am.

 

[jmx53]

What's the CS departure time been in the past?

This website has scanned Amtrak timetables over the years so you can browse what the historical schedules have been over the years: http://www.timetables.org/browse/

It's interesting how LAUPT has changed over the years and how limited Amtrak is with platform space these days. In the Mid 80's as a teenager I would hang out at the station from time to time. This was before Metrolink or the Red & Gold Lines so the tunnel to the platforms was kept closed except for ticketed passengers at the infrequent train times. There was a curved road ramp that led from the North side of the station building ground level up to the platform level so I would just go up that and explore around the platforms and the empty warehouses that used to be where the Gold Line stop is now. There were very few trains then so Amtrak had the pick of any platform they wanted. Private cars were often parked at the platforms and I was lucky enough to be invited to take a look inside some of them by the owners a couple of times.

 

[leemell]

So, once this is done, would there be any interest on the part of Amtrak to move up the schedule? A full hour seems like too much to ask of the San Diego passengers. And did the CS ever leave LA earlier than it does now? I know I could look that up but some of you folks know this stuff by heart.

Many years ago it used to leave at 10 and at 10:10. Unitl a few years ago it left at 10:15, then changed top 10:20 until last year I think when it changed to it's present 10:25.

 

[AlanB]

What's the CS departure time been in the past?

This website has scanned Amtrak timetables over the years so you can browse what the historical schedules have been over the years: http://www.timetables.org/browse/

Just as an FYI: That website is owned by the owner of this forum. He and MrFSS spent countless hours scanning all those timetables to create Timetables.org.

 

[Linda T]

I think one on the issues of moving the cs to an earlier departure from lax would be the impact on commuter schedules. You don't want to shade 30 minutes off the connection with the swc because that eats into the recovery time when it's running late.

During our LD trip last year on the SWC, we were running so late they held the CS for 30 minutes for us. Luckily we got there just 5 minutes before the CS was going to leave SWC or not. In 2013 I'll be taking the TE, which will give me (IIRC) 5 hours before the CS departs.

 

[Paulus]

Platform capacity really isn't an issue at LAUS; both Amtrak and Metrolink park trains at the platforms for hours and stopping that practice is a fairly simple means of adding more capacity if need be. Throat capacity is a more likely issue, but the through tracks project should alleviate that issue.

As for leaving earlier, California has been working for several years (and is hoping for inaguration of service in 2015) on restoring the Coast Daylight and leaving LAUS in the 7-8:30am range with that train, so I would be very surprised at the Starlight ever leaving earlier.

An additional issue to keep in mind may be the availability of baggage personnel to load the train if Surfliners are also coming in around the proposed time frame.

 

[Trogdor]

Platform capacity really isn't an issue at LAUS; both Amtrak and Metrolink park trains at the platforms for hours and stopping that practice is a fairly simple means of adding more capacity if need be.

Not during rush hour, which is when the Starlight would have to be spotted onto a platform in order to leave during the 9:00 am hour.

 

[Paulus]

Platform capacity really isn't an issue at LAUS; both Amtrak and Metrolink park trains at the platforms for hours and stopping that practice is a fairly simple means of adding more capacity if need be.

Not during rush hour, which is when the Starlight would have to be spotted onto a platform in order to leave during the 9:00 am hour.

Pretty sure that Amtrak normally keeps 10 and 12 empty around that time. Besides, with the new platform, there's what, 24 platforms including the A and B platforms? That's enough for 48 trains per hour if you're interested in safely and reliably maximizing station utility; Metrolink and Amtrak are nowhere near that. The issue is throat capacity, not whether there's a platform available.

 

[Phil S]

Still, even a Coast Daylight wouldn't fix the problem of the midnight departure from SAC and the huge layover connecting from CZ to CS northbound. As I said, when things fall apart to the south (like the San Luis O hill) the departure times and layover get postively brutal.

 

[fairviewroad]

Still, even a Coast Daylight wouldn't fix the problem of the midnight departure from SAC and the huge layover connecting from CZ to CS northbound. As I said, when things fall apart to the south (like the San Luis O hill) the departure times and layover get postively brutal.

FWIW, an earlier CS departure would also help the CS-EB connection in PDX. But you just can't get everything to line up perfectly

everywhere along the route. I'd bet there won't be any substantive changes to the CS for years to come.

 

[anir dendroica]

One option: resurrect the Daylight on the coast route, then route the CS over Tehachapi and up the central valley to Sacramento. Should be able to trim at least an hour with that routing, especially if no stops between LAUS and Bakersfield.

 

[fairviewroad]

One option: resurrect the Daylight on the coast route, then route the CS over Tehachapi and up the central valley to Sacramento. Should be able to trim at least an hour with that routing, especially if no stops between LAUS and Bakersfield.

You'd really need a new name for it, then. The "coast" portion of it would be eliminated entirely.

 

[anir dendroica]

One option: resurrect the Daylight on the coast route, then route the CS over Tehachapi and up the central valley to Sacramento. Should be able to trim at least an hour with that routing, especially if no stops between LAUS and Bakersfield.

You'd really need a new name for it, then. The "coast" portion of it would be eliminated entirely.

While I'm proposing things in dreamland, how about letting go of the bloated, ever-delayed HSR that will never be built and instead focusing on improving near-term train service between LA and SF. Keep the current train all the way to Seattle. Add a daylight link through the central valley with faster service from LAUS to SAC and reverse.

Perhaps more importantly, add a reliable overnight sleeper-only express (couchette economy, standard, and business deluxe) on the current route with just four stops:

LAX: 9 pm/7 am

SBA: 11 pm/5 am

SJC: 6 am/10 pm

OKJ: 7 am/9 pm

Plenty of travelers need to get between the Bay Area and LA between the end of one workday and the start of the next. Flights are short, but add TSA screening and hotel stays and it starts to be a pain. Offer a good night's sleep in comfortable beds (Superliner sleepers won't cut it) and a full bar for first class, and bare-bones beds (i.e. couchette style) for economy, and such a service might even turn a profit...

 

[Rob_C]

Might as well make the Coast Starlight true to its name when the Coast Daylight starts. Reverse-run the entire LA-Seattle with a 10pm departure, and 10am arrival in Seattle and reverse. It'll run the coast at night, but you'll get morning northbound service out of OKJ and SAC, plus a pretty damn good connection to the Zephyr. With the naming of the train, one has to wonder if that was the plan all along. (that just never materialized when the Daylight was originally cut).

 

[roadman3313]

Train 14 can often make up some time between OXN and SBA. Depending on how things go between SBA and SLO there is some padding as well. The issue sometimes is where the Northbound CS passed the Southbound PS. Sometimes one train or the other has to wait while the switch is thrown manually. If the trains are on time this often occurrs south of the Surf-Lompoc station. Conductors on board have often verbally blamed UP for the delay as they cite lack of maintanance on the switching equipment, out of service sidings, and lack of communication with UP dispatch. On one recent trip one conductor cited that he was on hold with UP Dispatch for 30 minutes.

Signal issues between SNS and SJC Northbound have also been an issue as the train has to stop at most of the grade-crossing before proceeding.

I mainly ride the train between EMY and DAV as I'm off work close to 10pm and the last CC is at 945pm Eastbound. If I have work in Southern California I ride it up the coast but usually opt for the bus-train or train-bus-train combinations to avoid the delays.

Yesterday was a prime example of train 14 losing time... the train itself only left SBA 5 minutes late but by the time it reached the Bay Area it was over 30 minutes late and kept losing time. When I got off in Davis the train was over 40 minutes late. Sadly, I consider that to be a good day.

Today at last check train 14 is 27 minutes late out of SBA Northbound. I'm on CC 537 on the way to work so all I do is keep an eye on train 14. Unfortunetly when it arrives in EMY I know to expect it to be 45-60 minutes late. Even the crew speaks quite liberally on how the schedule is a joke (I work in transit as well so we often speak quite openly about it).

A lot of it based on their feedback is it comes from the infrastructure and investment. Once you get north of SJC (if using the Niles Sub) or North of OAC if bypassing the infrastructure gets better and the trains generally operate at full speed. But this is a state-supported corridor. When I used to work at the Capitol Corridor there were always talks with UP and they were paid incentive bonuses for keeping the train OTP up. There was shared cost in Capital Investments and as a result the CC for the most part runs very smoothly. Today on train 537 we have arrived early to every stop and have had a smooth ride.

Fixing the schedule is the short-term solution, but fixing the causes for delays will provide long term benefits. That takes money, though, and that's the one thing that neither side is willing to spend on it.

 

[Blackwolf]

Might as well make the Coast Starlight true to its name when the Coast Daylight starts. Reverse-run the entire LA-Seattle with a 10pm departure, and 10am arrival in Seattle and reverse. It'll run the coast at night, but you'll get morning northbound service out of OKJ and SAC, plus a pretty damn good connection to the Zephyr. With the naming of the train, one has to wonder if that was the plan all along. (that just never materialized when the Daylight was originally cut).

Bingo. That has been my opinion as well; cut the whole morning Coast Starlight completely and make it a night train from LA north. In reverse, the southbound train arrives into LAX in the morning, and will essentially "run with the pack" in terms of travel with the Metrolink commuters instead of against. Yes, I can easily foresee Oregon in particular having a giant fit over loosing daytime train service and ending up like large portions of the country with middle-of-the-night callings...

Either way, it would be very stupid, IMHO, to have a Coast Daylight and Coast Starlight leaving within an hour of each other. A huge waste of resources, and essentially nullifying the CS in terms of ridership until you go north of the Bay Area.