CSX Proposes New Passenger Train Procedures

[AlanB]

CSX’s proposal would allow passenger trains to travel at "conditional speed not to exceed 50 mph" when a flash-flood warning is issued. "Conditional speed" is a speed that would allow an engineer to stop the train within half the range of vision. That speed would be left to the engineer's discretion. Freight trains would be allowed to continue operating at 40 mph.
In areas where high water is actually present or the danger is obvious, speeds of all trains would be limited to 15 mph.

Frankly these rules seem to make more sense to me. I hope that CSX does indeed implement them.

You can read the full story from Trains.com.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

How does the engineer know what the speed limit is at any point? As much as I've looked, I've not been able to see speed limit signs along the tracks.

 

[CSXBAP]

Engineers know speed limits from published written sources and from being "qualified" or trained over the territory they operate. There is no "seat of the pants" operating like driving a car and just obeying signs along the way. The regular established speeds over a given territory are specified in employee timetables which have much more information than regular public timetables. Any changes in speeds that vary from the timetable are listed in train orders or bulletins which are issued to the crew before each trip that have the most up to date information about speed changes since the last timetable was issued. The crews study these orders before departure and recheck them constantly enroute. If a change in speed is needed once a train is already enroute, the dispatcher will relay the information via radio. Keep in mind that a given railroad crew only operates over certain territory over certain lines, usually not more than a couple hundred miles at most over a few routes...for example one group of crews only operate between Washington and New York and go nowhere else. They do not wander all over the country or all over the railroad like an over the road truck driver. Thus crews know every inch of their territory to the point they know every switch, signal and speed as well as they know their own home. As a additional aid, some railroads post speed limit signs along the way but they really are a backup as they can be vandalized or removed and thus can't be relied on alone. They are usefull in when knowing when a speed restriction on a tight curve ends and normal speed can be resumed. Long trains, especially freight trains, relay on a counter or odometer which the engineer constantly sets and resets to know when the end of the train has cleared a speed restriction...and of course crews are given the information on the precise length of their train. On those railroads that do post speed limit signs, sometimes you will see two numbers like 60/40 on a sign. The higher speed is for passenger trains and the lower speed is for freights.

 

[battalion51]

One addition to what CSXBAP said, when slow orders are issued (on CSX territory anyway) the format is something like this:

Miami Sub 25 MPH Main Track SX992.1-SX992.3 Yes-Signs

The signs mean that there is a physical indication to where the Slow ORder begins/ends. In some places there are no signs so the engineer must guesstimate where the slow order is.

 

[CSXBAP]

Good point. By guesstimate where the slow order is (when no signs are displayed) we don't mean the engineer guesses the right or wrong spot...rather he must slow down over a long enough section of track where he is sure to cover the offending spot. This is all aggravating to crews since 1: They may have to crawl a mile long train over a long section of track where the real offending problem was only on a small section and signs would pinpoint it rather than having to pad things to be sure and 2; we figure the track inspector had to have stood at the offending section to identify the problem in the first place and could easily have put signs up. Of course with both temporary and permanent speed restrictions the best sytems have some sort of sign or indication/warning in advance of the actual restriction since most trains cannot be slowed down instantly...for example under NORAC (northeast) operating rules there is a sign posting the upcoming slower speed ahead and then a sign with an S at the actual spot where the speed restiction starts and an R sign where speed can be resumed. The rules and methods of posting speeds, like the trackside illuminated signals, varied from railroad to railroad and where not standardized like highway signals. These varieties are what make railroad history so interesting and are not a detriment to safety since as noted before, railroad crews do not wander all over the country so as long as they are conversant in the signal/rule system in their home territory, it doesn't matter what is used on the other side of the county as they don't go there. For the pasenger or rail historian, its a glimpse of the past as one can still look out their coach window and see everything from the old B&O color postion light signals on that territory to the all yellow bulb signals on the ex Pennsy lines etc....keeping in mind that railroad signals can convey alot more information than a highway traffic light.

 

[battalion51]

The signal information is so true. It's amazing what a differnce one little light and it's position and flashing can make. On the signs account sometimes you'll get lucky, for instance yesterday there was a restriction at the A765.9-A766.0 with no signs, so our engineers knew exactly where the restriction started, and were able to estimate pretty well where it ended.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

Thanks for the very fine explanations, which answers many of my questions. Now I think I understand why the signaling makes no sense to me at all, and why it appears so different on the various routes (UP, BNSF, CSX, etc.). It is, indeed, a different world.