Current Diesel fuel situation's impact on Amtrak

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Eric in East County

Eric in East County

OBS Chief
AU Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
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963
Location
East San Diego County
According to CNBC:

· Diesel prices have increased 33% for November deliveries and are expected to go higher.

· Diesel supply in the Northeast, the drought-stricken Mississippi River, and a potential rail strike are contributing to higher fuel demand with calls for federal government intervention to increase supply.

· Diesel reserves have not been this low since 1951 and a ban on Russian products set for next year will intensify competition for the fuel.

What if any impact will all of this have on Amtrak passenger service?
 
I don't know about Amtrak passenger service, but an overall diesel shortage could mess with the truckers, thus making it harder for anyone to blame a rail strike for the coming meltdown in the supply chain. Maybe when this is all done, all that "just in time" inventory management stuff will be history, and people will start seeing the value of having some redundancy in the system.
 
Consider if the diesel fuel is not pumped/piped to the station dispensing location it must be trucked or rail car -
the trucks use diesel in the movement - rail cars rely on diesel locomotives to move these cars to a point where
the diesel trucks move it to the final dispensing location (gas/diesel station).
In any event movement of the diesel fuel has its merits but also environmental issues.
Demand for truckers to move goods and FUEL is high - shortage of FUEL will upset this supply chain !
 
WWW said:
Consider if the diesel fuel is not pumped/piped to the station dispensing location it must be trucked or rail car -
the trucks use diesel in the movement - rail cars rely on diesel locomotives to move these cars to a point where
the diesel trucks move it to the final dispensing location (gas/diesel station).
In any event movement of the diesel fuel has its merits but also environmental issues.
Demand for truckers to move goods and FUEL is high - shortage of FUEL will upset this supply chain !
Click to expand...
I guess we need trains after all!
 
What percentage of Amtrak’s operating costs goes for diesel fuel?

Does Amtrak have its own reserve of diesel fuel or is purchased as needed?

Since it appears that Amtrak will be paying more for the diesel fuel it uses, will ticket prices be raised yet again?

If diesel fuel is in short supply and/or has to be rationed, will Amtrak cut back on the number of trains it runs weekly or cancel other trains outright?

If diesel fuel is rationed, would Amtrak be given a higher or a lower priority than the cross-country trucks carrying food, medical items, toilet paper, and other of life’s necessities?
 
Bob Dylan said:
Instead, How about Lobbying to get rid of Diesel in favor of Cleaner Alternate Fuels?
( California is the Leader on this!)
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Yes for the long term but not something that we can put in place in a matter of weeks.
More biodiesel would help - trucks can use a blend of up to 20% bio which would help extend the use of petroleum based fuel.
Most of the biodiesel comes from recycling vegetable oil such as used for frying at restaurants. I don't know how much waste oil there is that is not already being recycled.

I suspect Amtrak's Diesel use is pretty minimal compared to what is being used by trucking.
 
MIrailfan said:
We need to lobby for increased diesel production. Refineries etc.
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The US is pumping more than enough oil, the bigger issue is OPEC cutting production, the war in Ukraine, and a general lack of refinery capacity in the US. No one seems interested in building more refineries either, venture capital turned off the free money to these energy companies too.
 
Actually, higher diesel (and gasoline) prices might actually be a good thing, as they might encourage reductions in vehicle miles traveled, which would mean reductions in petroleum use, thus decreasing greenhouse gas emissions and revenues to oil-producing countries, many of whom aren't our friends, anyway. This would provide a great opportunity to finance the infrastructure for alternatives to petroleum-based fuels so that even the prices come down due to decreased demand, the demand won't go back up. In fact, if we really wanted to do it right, we should tax petroleum-based fuels to ensure that the price remains high.
 
Number 1 user of Diesel Fuel in the US is the Union Pacific Railroad. The US Navy held the top spot for years.

Imagine what will happen if there a freight railroad strike.

So much surplus fuel.

This whole story line of a fuel storage is made up. Yes there is supply deliver issue. You can only send so much fuel thur a pipeline. There are Jones Act qualified ship lay up, ready to move fuel if the price is right. It’s about who going to pay for this movement of fuel. Government or Big Oil.

People are try to get rich with out any of the risk. Give me a Jones act wavier or better yet have the government pay for the transportation themselves.

Nobody going to build a new refinery, the whole oil business is endangered of going out of business. If 20% of cars become electric then big oil collapses. Then government will have to buy a few oil refineries to keep the military supplied.

Just people trying to get rich, without any investment or risking there skin to do so.
 
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Eric in East County said:
Diesel reserves have not been this low since 1951
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IIRC it's actually 2008, not 1951. Also, our reserves aren't that much lower than they normally are. We typically have around a month supply chilling around and last I checked it was at 25 days. Not really anything to worry about, and we have the capacity available if this actually becomes a problem.

Remember, a lot of the business of the news these days, regardless of their political affiliation, is to fear monger, and this seems like one of those things.
 
TransitTyrant said:
No one seems interested in building more refineries either, venture capital turned off the free money to these energy companies too.
Click to expand...
Kinda hard to get people to invest in refinery capacity when government policy is to discontinue fossil fuels, ignoring the fact that this will be a long drawn out process and we will still need fossil fuels for some time to come.
 
piemadd said:
IIRC it's actually 2008, not 1951. Also, our reserves aren't that much lower than they normally are. We typically have around a month supply chilling around and last I checked it was at 25 days. Not really anything to worry about, and we have the capacity available if this actually becomes a problem.

Remember, a lot of the business of the news these days, regardless of their political affiliation, is to fear monger, and this seems like one of those things.
Click to expand...
The assertion that the diesel fuel supply is the lowest since 1951 is not mine but CNBC’s.

My questions regarding the rising cost for diesel fuel and whatever the current supply may be are all related to how this will affect Amtrak passenger service: will ticket prices be raised, will fewer trains run weekly, will certain trains be cancelled outright, etc.
 
Watched a very good video that breaks down the issues involved in this whole situation.

The supply is there we are just choosing to send it where its more profitable, which isnt here.
 
Just-Thinking-51 said:
Number 1 user of Diesel Fuel in the US is the Union Pacific Railroad. The US Navy held the top spot for years.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the US army was first then UP while BNSF is right there behind them
Class 1 really need to put mainlines under wire even if they just start with their transcon routes.
 

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