Did the CZ combine with another train out of Chicago in the past

[denmarks]

Years ago due to problems with the CZ crossing the Mississippi I was flown to Omaha to catch the train. For some reason they placed me in a room that only went as far and Denver where I had to switch rooms. I assumed that the train split and part of it went to LA. Was this ever true or am I mistaken?

 

[Dakota 400]

There were two other trains that connected with the California Zephyr. The Pioneer, which was a section that went to Seattle, and The Desert Wind which went to Los Angeles. I recall the connection was at Salt Lake City, but not Denver. If my memory is faulty, I am sure others will be able to correct it.

 

[denmarks]

There were two other trains that connected with the California Zephyr. The Pioneer, which was a section that went to Seattle, and The Desert Wind which went to Los Angeles. I recall the connection was at Salt Lake City, but not Denver. If my memory is faulty, I am sure others will be able to correct it.

I am pretty sure it was in Denver but SLC is a possibility. I remember it was about 2 in the morning I had to switch. I think it was in 1990.

 

[Asher]

I

There were two other trains that connected with the California Zephyr. The Pioneer, which was a section that went to Seattle, and The Desert Wind which went to Los Angeles. I recall the connection was at Salt Lake City, but not Denver. If my memory is faulty, I am sure others will be able to correct it.

I think the Pioneer connection to Seattle was at Denver.

Route map
Legend
Dist. Station
0 Chicago

California Zephyr

28 mi 45 km Naperville
38 mi 61 km Aurora bypassed 1983
104 mi 167 km Princeton
162 mi 261 km Galesburg
IL IA
205 mi 330 km Burlington
233 mi 375 km Mount Pleasant
280 mi 451 km Ottumwa
360 mi 579 km Osceola
393 mi 632 km Creston
IA NE
501 mi 806 km Omaha
555 mi 893 km Lincoln
652 mi 1049 km Hastings
706 mi 1136 km Holdrege
784 mi 1262 km McCook
NE CO
960 mi 1545 km Fort Morgan
1037 mi 1669 km Denver (Union Station)
Pioneer to Seattle
1100 mi 1770 km Fraser–Winter Park
1113 mi 1791 km Granby
1222 mi 1967 km Glenwood Springs
CO UT
1390 mi 2237 km Thompson
1489 mi 2396 km Helper
1564 mi 2517 km Provo
1609 mi 2589 km Salt Lake City (D&RGW Depot)
California Zephyr to Oakland
1741 mi 2802 km Delta closed 1988
1815 mi 2921 km Milford

 

[zephyr17]

There were two other trains that connected with the California Zephyr. The Pioneer, which was a section that went to Seattle, and The Desert Wind which went to Los Angeles. I recall the connection was at Salt Lake City, but not Denver. If my memory is faulty, I am sure others will be able to correct it.

The split for all three was at Salt Lake from 1983 to 1991 when they moved the Pioneer split to Denver to improve service times to Seattle (Overland Route is significantly faster) and restore service to Wyoming. It was at Ogden the first few years of the Pioneer and Desert Wind operation before the route shift from UP to D&RGW in 1983.

During the infamous Mercer cuts later in the 1990s, when all long distance services were cut back to less than daily, a combined Pioneer/Desert Wind ran 3 days a week with the train splitting at Denver. The California Zephyr ran the other 4 days a week with no split. That was the service pattern just prior to the discontinuation of the Pioneer and Desert Wind in 1997.

 

[Dakota 400]

The split for all three was at Salt Lake until 1991

My memory was not too bad after all. My trip on The Desert Wind was before 1991. Thanks!

 

[Rasputin]

I believe that there were times, pre-Amtrak, when the CZ and the Denver Zephyr were combined between Chicago and Denver. We probably need to call in a CB&Q expert on this.

 

[zephyr17]

The CZ and the DZ were never combined. The "California Service" that ran 3 days a week after the CZ's discontinuance in March 1970 was run as a separate train from the DZ, though on a different, and worse, schedule than the CZ's.

The DZ and the 3 day a week "California Service" ran until AmDay.

The Q may have occasionally combined them in response to difficult operating conditions, I can't say. But they were always scheduled as separate trains.

 

[Willbridge]

Given the year and time of day it sounds like SLC.

One additional possible combination is a short-turn car running DEN<>CHI. This has been done in peak periods with a sleeper or with a coach. Known locally as the "Denver Zephyr" these appear when Amtrak is in an "attract passengers" mode and disappear when they are in the "just raise the fares" mode.

As I've mentioned before, in 1971 a second section of the Amtrak San Francisco Zephyr was operated CHI<>DEN on peak days and in Chicago Union Station the gate signage read Denver Zephyr. In the first year of Amtrak the former rail passenger departments were still carrying on to various degrees.

 

[ms garrison]

It split at Denver. I was on my way to Seattle and during the split had time to see progress on Coors Field, which was under construction. Can't remember the year.

 

[jis]

Years ago due to problems with the CZ crossing the Mississippi I was flown to Omaha to catch the train. For some reason they placed me in a room that only went as far and Denver where I had to switch rooms. I assumed that the train split and part of it went to LA. Was this ever true or am I mistaken?

Unless you also mention which year, it would be hard to tell what split where. Since you say CZ at least it was after it was routed onto the Moffat Line, since before the switch it was called San Francisco Zephyr when it did not go to SLC and passed through Ogden on the Wasatch Front. But there was a short period after the official switch when the CZ continued to run on the UP because of a disastrous landslide and flood at Thistle UT.

Initially, both the Desert Wind and Pioneer had cross platform connection with the SFZ at Ogden. Then the through cars 25/26 Desert Wind and 35/36 Pioneer were instituted, I don't recall exactly when though it was sometime around 1981, since I did use the Pioneer through car in late 1981 AFAIR.

After it became CZ, for quite a while the split of both the Desert Wind and Pioneer was at SLC, as the CZ shuffled around various Salt Lake City stations during that period. Then both the Desert Wind and the Pioneer were discontinued. After a little while the Pioneer was resurrected, this time splitting at Denver. And then the Pioneer was finally put to bed.

BTW, the Denver drop Sleeper mentioned above was the infamous x30 car, which for a few summers stopped being dropped at Denver and went through all the way but still positioned at the tail of the train. Apparently the new crew at operations did not know about that and got confused a few months back.

 

[denmarks]

As I indicated in my original post there were problems where the CZ out of Chicago was not able to cross the Mississippi. There may have been problems with other routes and they were all combined and ran out of Omaha. It was on 3/11/90. I think it was originally scheduled for 3/10. I was flown to Omaha and stayed overnight.