Diner etiquite

[Devil's Advocate]

Now, while I agree that there is definitely a bias or an enouragement by posters for folks to upgrade whenever possible, I think there are only a few that would look down their noses at coach passengers. I am sorry if that is the general vibe you have gotten from the board, because I can assure you that I am certainly not trying to portray that vibe and most others aren't either.

I find most of what I read on AU to be both interesting and informative, including the topics I never comment on, but one thing I've never cared for is the widespread sleeper bias.

Comparing and contrasting the details and particulars of sleepers vs. coach cars in an objective fashion is fine with me, but the assumption that everyone should always choose a sleeper and anyone who doesn't must be poor or naive doesn't make any sense.

Depending on the route Amtrak sleeper fares can exceed even first class airfare. How many of us routinely flew first class before we made trains our priority? Not to mention that Amtrak won't ever have enough sleeper compartments to handle everyone anyway.

Every day Amtrak depends on thousands of people living with coach seats. Otherwise their trains would be running almost empty and they'd probably lose much more of their government funding.

So next time someone is about to stick their nose up at coach class I'd like them to remember that coach class is what gives Amtrak its legitimacy as a government funded service and it's also what gives millions of Americans their first taste of train travel.

Without coach class folks like me may never have discovered our love of train travel in the first place.

 

[SarahZ]

I find this really amusing. It's not rubbing salt in any kind of "wound". :blink: I love riding in coach.

My boyfriend and I can easily afford a roomette if we so choose, but our trips to visit family are only 26-28 hours long, and we don't see the sense in paying extra when it's only one night. Plus, I don't like feeling boxed in, and he likes sitting next to me, so coach makes more sense for us. It also allows us to splurge on food/hotel/attractions once we reach our destination.

We got a roomette once to avoid the screaming kids and cell phone talkers in coach. We ended up next to someone who talked on their phone *all night*, and the kid down the hall was shrieking well into the morning. Lesson learned. :blush:

Anyway, talk to us at breakfast. Chances are we love bacon and coffee as much as you do, and I love sharing life stories.

*Edit: grammar

 

[bobnabq]

I happen to love riding in coach and can well afford to buy other accommodations but I prefer the freedom coach affords me.

I'm also a cheapskate and don't think the sleeping accommodations are comfortable enough to warrant the expense and they certainly don't make me feel *classier*

/rant

Like you, I could upgrade, but prefer to spend my money after arrival at my destination, wining and dining friends.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Before reading this thread I had no idea there are folks out here who look down upon Amtrak Coach riders! Damn, if I happen to bump into AU folks I will be looked upon as a poor guy, because I travel only Coach! I fail to understand however elite and wealthy one may be, how can one think Amtrak Coach riders belong to a lower/poorer class? Wherever I have had to travel for need, not pleasure, Amtrak Coach fares themselves have been higher than bus fares and sometimes higher than air fares too! If someone is spending that much money to ride Amtrak Coach, s/he is sure as hell not anywhere close to poor.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Before reading this thread I had no idea there are folks out here who look down upon Amtrak Coach riders! Damn, if I happen to bump into AU folks I will be looked upon as a poor guy, because I travel only Coach! I fail to understand however elite and wealthy one may be, how can one think Amtrak Coach riders belong to a lower/poorer class? Wherever I have had to travel for need, not pleasure, Amtrak Coach fares themselves have been higher than bus fares and sometimes higher than air fares too! If someone is spending that much money to ride Amtrak Coach, s/he is sure as hell not anywhere close to poor.

Not to mention that a low bucket roomette can be the same price or even cheaper than a high bucket coach fare. Then again I guess this issue isn't so much about logic as it is about appearances.

 

[amamba]

Chances are we love bacon and coffee as much as you do, and I love sharing life stories.

I think we can all get behind our love of bacon! :wub:

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Sometimes Coach is the only way you can go no matter how much you are willing to spend. The Heartland Flyer is a good case in point.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Over the years, we have had table-mates that were quite easy to talk with. We have had table-mates that had the most interesting stories to tell. And we have had table-mates that just sat there and didn't want to talk, but silence never makes me feel uncomfortable.

I do understand the sleeper vs. coach issue. I surely don't want to come off being snobbish, conceded, or bragging.

 

[JayPea]

I always travel coach when I take my trips from Spokane to Seattle/Portland and back. There's no reason to get a sleeper even though one gets on in Spokane in the middle of the night. I've never had any passenger at breakfast turn their nose up because I was in coach. Now, a few times, I've had Amtrak personnel treat me like I was dog crap simply because I was in coach.............. :angry2: :angry2: :angry2:

On the other hand, on all my long-distance trips save one, I've ridden in a sleeper. Not because I'm better than coach passengers, but because I like the comfort and the privacy. And in most of those cases, it was through the use of AGR points, so the sleeper was free of charge anyway. On those occasions, I've had meals with coach passengers several times, and never had any problem with the sleeper vs. coach thing. I've had several who were riding coach and were asking about the accomodations in the sleeper, how comfortable, how much room, etc. I have had some very nice conversations over meals in the diner over the years, meeting people from all over and from all walks of life. And those of you at the recent gathering in Seattle know that I'm not a great conversationalist, so for to join a good conversation is unusual for me!

On the one occasion I did a long-distance trip in coach (this past summer when I along with my uncle and his granddaughter were rerouted onto the SWC from the CZ when the CZ was cancelled) I found the ride not all that bad. As I've mentioned before, it would have been even better had it not been for the guy in the seat next to me who yapped on his cell phone at all hours of the night and who reeked of stale cigarettes and who needed a reacquaintance with Right-Guard. I don't know that I'd choose to travel long distance in coach again, but, again, simply because I enjoy the comfort and the privacy of a sleeper. I'm not elite by anyone's definition of the world.

 

[RRUserious]

On my recent trip west, I took coach one direction, sleeper the other. I don't recall that our choice of ticket came up in any connection. I was aware that they were collecting money from me whereas the sleeper passengers had it covered. But I didn't see any way to observe that in the conversation. So we had a really good chat. I was surprised that the "group seating" didn't bother me since I'm not the most extraverted person I know. But frankly, mealtimes with these strangers were sort of a bonus on the trip. Don't think I made any "friends", but I did learn many interesting things about my table mates. I recommend it, even for introverts like me.

 

[PaulM]

I've looked everywhere on the Amtrak site and I've yet to find the words FIRST CLASS in relation to any ticket or accommodation available on their trains.

With the exception Acela, which other have mentioned, you are correct. But at one time, "sleeper class" was call first class. I don't know whether Amtrak changed the jargon to be politically correct or in order not to get the customer's expectations to high.

 

[guest to the north]

On the Canadian, a coach passenger is definitely treated a cut below those in sleeper tourist class. Coach passengers are only allowed to make reservations for the third sitting in the diner for lunch and dinner, and only if there are seats available--which means in practical terms that there will be no more than 2 or 3 coach passengers able to take advantage of the great meals.

Now granted that there aren't that many coach riders on the Canadian, but Amtrak is a bit more egalitarian, though I have been on the CZ when more coach passengers wanted to have dinner than there were seats available after all the sleeper pax had been accommodated.

 

[ABDeh88]

I ate my first-ever Amtrak diner meal (breakfast) on the CZ from Denver to Galesburg just last week. I was in coach with my wife but she wanted to sleep so I decided to lose my diner virginity. Granted, it was only my second LD trip leg ever.

I got up at 6:30 somewhere around Creston, Iowa to get some bacon. I was the first one in there. A few minutes later two sisters in their 60's joined me for breakfast. They were sharing a roomette and were coming back from California to Osceola.

We talked about everything from our trips, to the weather, to how I met my wife, to how one of their cats hides when he sees her suitcase by the door. We also spoke about the sleeper accommodations. Good times. Though I did end up writing on the food order sheet before the diner attendant took it from me. Whoops

 

[The Davy Crockett]

Though I did end up writing on the food order sheet before the diner attendant took it from me. Whoops

And you lived to tell about it? :lol:

 

[trainman74]

But at one time, "sleeper class" was call first class. I don't know whether Amtrak changed the jargon to be politically correct or in order not to get the customer's expectations to high.

The ad on this page from a 1989 timetable seems to indicate that it was done to distinguish "regular" sleeper service from Slumbercoach service. I suspect your second thought is a lot closer to the truth (since if I recall correctly, the "First Class" branding disappeared before the Slumbercoaches did).

I used to have a packet of stationery with the Amtrak "First Class" logo on it, which I got as a sleeper passenger on the City of New Orleans in June 1990.

 

[Guest]

I don't understand the problem with calling sleepers "First Class."

The unattended lounges for sleeper passengers in St. Paul/Minneapolis, St. Louis, New Orleans, Raleigh and Miami are referred to by Amtrak as "First Class" lounges.

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267362179

 

[VentureForth]

I actually like to talk about the sleeper to coach passengers if it comes up. I like to tell them how much more comfortable it is, how your meals are included (and you get your breakfast sides included). Most coach passengers don't have any idea about sleeper service other than "I ain' spending $1000 for 8 hours in a tiny room!"

We talk about onboard upgrades, how to use AGR to get your sleeping accomodations, etc.

It's all just part of the whole train experience. And I get to tell them how most of the time I ride coach and only get a sleeper when the price is right.

That all being said, I DO understand how someone who has been up in coach for an hour waiting for the diner to open at 6:30 AM could be a bit more communication-ready than the one who drags in from the sleeper just to get their first cup of joe. When moods aren't matched, it can be very uncomfortable. There are, for sure, those who just don't get the hint and will talk your ear off, even if you spend the whole time staring at your watch and out the window. If you are not in the mood to talk, I do suggest getting your meal brought to you. Otherwise, if the conversation is uncomfortable based on your class of service, you should be able to talk your way around that.

 

[fillyjonk]

I talk if the other person talks first - at least in the morning. I know a lot of people REALLY AREN'T morning people and don't want to talk before they've had coffee. So I smile and nod and say good morning and then let them talk if they want.

I've also been in the diner (at dinner) across from someone who read a book the whole time. I thought that was fairly rude. Though not any ruder than the guy I wound up trapped across from who launched into a long conversation bashing various groups of people (one of which I was a member of, and I quietly noted that fact to him) and talking about how there was "no freedom of speech any more" for people like him and stuff, and I quietly said, "I'm letting you speak even though you're saying untrue and rather rude things about (the group I am a part of)."

I ALMOST didn't go to breakfast the next morning for fear of getting stuck with that boor again - except, since the LSA kept shooting me sympathetic looks during the jerk's tirade, I do not think he would have allowed that to happen.

So actually, having someone not talk to me in the diner is NOT the worst thing ever...

 

[RRUserious]

I talk if the other person talks first - at least in the morning. I know a lot of people REALLY AREN'T morning people and don't want to talk before they've had coffee. So I smile and nod and say good morning and then let them talk if they want.

I've also been in the diner (at dinner) across from someone who read a book the whole time. I thought that was fairly rude. Though not any ruder than the guy I wound up trapped across from who launched into a long conversation bashing various groups of people (one of which I was a member of, and I quietly noted that fact to him) and talking about how there was "no freedom of speech any more" for people like him and stuff, and I quietly said, "I'm letting you speak even though you're saying untrue and rather rude things about (the group I am a part of)."

I ALMOST didn't go to breakfast the next morning for fear of getting stuck with that boor again - except, since the LSA kept shooting me sympathetic looks during the jerk's tirade, I do not think he would have allowed that to happen.

So actually, having someone not talk to me in the diner is NOT the worst thing ever...

Totally agree. A few nonverbals will send the message that you aren't interested in talk. I don't consider silence rude. There is also a freedom NOT to speak.

 

[VentureForth]

I talk if the other person talks first - at least in the morning. I know a lot of people REALLY AREN'T morning people and don't want to talk before they've had coffee. So I smile and nod and say good morning and then let them talk if they want.

I've also been in the diner (at dinner) across from someone who read a book the whole time. I thought that was fairly rude. Though not any ruder than the guy I wound up trapped across from who launched into a long conversation bashing various groups of people (one of which I was a member of, and I quietly noted that fact to him) and talking about how there was "no freedom of speech any more" for people like him and stuff, and I quietly said, "I'm letting you speak even though you're saying untrue and rather rude things about (the group I am a part of)."

I ALMOST didn't go to breakfast the next morning for fear of getting stuck with that boor again - except, since the LSA kept shooting me sympathetic looks during the jerk's tirade, I do not think he would have allowed that to happen.

So actually, having someone not talk to me in the diner is NOT the worst thing ever...

Totally agree. A few nonverbals will send the message that you aren't interested in talk. I don't consider silence rude. There is also a freedom NOT to speak.

Regrettably, non-verbals are unknowns to certain individuals.

 

[MiRider]

Good Lord.

That's them thar coach peoples for y'all, they ain't spending that thar money.

This is exactly what this thread is about.

My personal experience and opinion -

I'll try anything once so I'll be checking out a Superliner Roomette on my month long, 12 segment, 90% COACH, extravaganza next year.

Having heard the virtues of the Viewliner Roomettes extolled here, we tried one.

Totally not worth it and certainly not more comfortable than coach unless being able to lay fully horizontal counts as comfort in your book.

The seats are definitely not more comfortable - ymmv.

The food is included?

Again, not worth the extra expense.

I'd just as soon pay for the meals I want - I never eat 3.

I haven't paid for my breakfast sides during any of my trips on the TE or on the LSL and have even had juice with my breakfast - I've only been traveling this year, maybe that's something new.

To each their own.

I'm sure I'll be traveling via sleeper now and again.

Of course, I haven't had a horrifying coach experience yet but I'd have no qualms in making sure it was taken care of or insist that the perpetrator(s) or I be moved.

I also wouldn't suffer a rude fool during my meal - I'm moving or leaving.

Then again, my husband and I sat with a sleeper passenger, on the coach leg of our LSL trip, who regaled us with his cross country trip and then proceeded to tell us about how he fell off of the toilet in his roomette and made a disgusting mess that the SCA helped him clean up.

Seriously, wth - and some of the sleeper pax here are worried about talking to coach pax?

I actually like to talk about the sleeper to coach passengers if it comes up. I like to tell them how much more comfortable it is, how your meals are included (and you get your breakfast sides included). Most coach passengers don't have any idea about sleeper service other than "I ain' spending $1000 for 8 hours in a tiny room!"

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I have had numerous great meal time conversations with pax not knowing or caring which end of the train they came from unless I was paying attention when the server was cutting the checks.

 

[AlanB]

But at one time, "sleeper class" was call first class. I don't know whether Amtrak changed the jargon to be politically correct or in order not to get the customer's expectations to high.

The ad on this page from a 1989 timetable seems to indicate that it was done to distinguish "regular" sleeper service from Slumbercoach service. I suspect your second thought is a lot closer to the truth (since if I recall correctly, the "First Class" branding disappeared before the Slumbercoaches did).

I used to have a packet of stationery with the Amtrak "First Class" logo on it, which I got as a sleeper passenger on the City of New Orleans in June 1990.

Sleepers were considered First Class up until maybe two year ago, might be three now. I've heard a few different reasons for why Amtrak attempted to change things, one was to differentiate things from Acela First Class where you get free booze. Like many things Amtrak, some departments made the change and others didn't. So the lounges are still considered First Class lounges, even though Acela only serves 4 of the dozen or so lounges.

Some literature still refers to sleepers as First Class, while other things call it Sleeper class.

 

[MiRider]

Well, in the end if you have to use the word class.... you don't have any.

Paying more for anything doesn't make you or what you're paying for better and that's what I consider the lesson to be learned here.

 

[TimePeace]

Well, in the end if you have to use the word class.... you don't have any.

Paying more for anything doesn't make you or what you're paying for better and that's what I consider the lesson to be learned here.

Yes... agreed