Discussion of Indian Railways and travel by it

[jis]

It is new construction to a large extent on elevated structure along road/highway alignments. I am not sure if it use any of the RoW of the classic rail route between Ghaziabad and Meerut at all.

As a matter of fact most of the new Metros in India are built on elevated structures with only a relatively small proportion in the center city usually in bored tunnels.

 

[jis]

Two more Vande Bharat Expresses were inaugurated last week (week of 2/13/23)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Two more Vande Bharat Expresses were inaugurated last week (week of 2/13/23)

Jis: I still say Amtrak should hire some Execs from Indian Railways to run their Trains!

 

[jis]

Jis: I still say Amtrak should hire some Execs from Indian Railways to run their Trains!

Or even a few from Israel Railways would do.

 

[cirdan]

Some questions:

A relative of mine is likely to be put on a job placement in India starting this Summer and lasting up to three years. Delhi area. Moving with wife and two kids.

This would be a great opportunity to not only see him, but also go my own way and explore some of Indian Railways, ideally on multi-day trips.

Any advice on particular lines or features of interest (in terms of scenery, equipment, other remarkable features etc). Ideally I would like to get a taste of both the old and the new. Also hopping off the train to see places of cultural / historical interest if they can be easily combined. Though I'm not much of a fan of the well-organized super tourist traps and would prefer more second tier attractions that still have a lot of local ambience.

How best to book tickets? Online? At stations? How far in advance?

Any dos and dont's?

I gather from googling that India doesn't really have the concept of sleeper trains as in cars with private rooms with doors you can lock as on Amtrak, but what they call sleeper trains are more like communal dorms. Is this correct? Do they have showers on such trains?

What is photography like in India. You occasionally hear scare stories of photography being absolutely forbidden in many locations, and of security staff and police acting allergically to anybody who even looks as if they might be planning to take pictures. Is this still the case? Any specific etiquette I should be aware of?

 

[jis]

Some questions:

I would preface my comments on this subject with the note that India is a vast country with a vast rail,network that is ever growing in size and sophistication. One can spend a lifetime visiting various corners of it as some of my railfan friends in the IRFCA do.

Any advice on particular lines or features of interest (in terms of scenery, equipment, other remarkable features etc). Ideally I would like to get a taste of both the old and the new. Also hopping off the train to see places of cultural / historical interest if they can be easily combined. Though I'm not much of a fan of the well-organized super tourist traps and would prefer more second tier attractions that still have a lot of local ambience.

In New Delhi visit the National Railway Museum in Chanakyapuri to get your fill of remarkably well preserved historic artifacts and rolling stock, including a Class N Garratt and a bunch of DC electric locos from the 30s and 40s used around Bombay. There is also a well preserved Baldwin WP bullet nosed passenger steam loco too.

Inquire at the NRM whether it is possible visit the Steam Loco preservation shed in Rewari a relatively short train ride from Delhi, and if available visit it.

The scenic day trips from Delhi are mostly to the Himalayan foothills - Dehra Dun and Kathgodam (for Naini Tal) have Shatabdi Expresses. Overnight trip to Katra on the part of the Kashmir Rail link that is in service from the plains would be worth it. The other end of it in Kashmir Valley can be ridden between Banihal and Qazigund, through the Pir Panjal Tunnel under the Pir Panjal Range (foothills of the Great Himalayas) can be done by flying from Delhi to Srinagar and spending a day or two there. Do this only if you have a stomach for the possibility of working around occasional terrorist activities, though it appears to be on the wane now.

On the trip to Katra, you could stop off at Pathankot for a few days and take in the narrow gauge Kangra Valley Railroad to Joginder Nagar and back.

Also on the way back stop at Ambala Cantt. and spend a couple of days going upto Kalka and then taking the Kalka - Shimla narrow gauge line up into the Himalayan foothills to what used to be Summer Capital of the British Raj.

A few of the not to be missed scenic lines on the plains are:

1. Kokan Railway -there are through trains from Delhi (Hazrat Nizamuddin) to Tiruvanthipuram, including a Rajdhani Express to explore this line along the west coast of India where the Western Ghats meet the Arabian Sea. Make a stop at Mumbai and take in the ride upto Pune and thence to Madgaon (Goa) and then join the train to Tiruvanthipuram there in one directio to experience the 1 in 37 Broad Gauge climb climb from Karjat to Pune and then the sceneray of the Sahyadri range of the Western Ghats. Stop off at Goa and enjoy the beaches and the hedonism

2. From Tiruvanthipuram go to Chennai across the peninsula, and then catch an Express (perhaps Coromandal Express) to Kolkata (Howrah) to experience theEast (Coromandal) Coast

3. From Kolkata take the daytime Shatabdi Express to New Jalpaiguri across the might Ganga at Farakka Barrage.

4. Overnight at New Jalpaiguri and then catch the early morning Narrow Gauge Train to Darjeeling on the UNESCO World Heritage listed Darjeeling Himalayan Railway. If you are lucky you will get a spectacular view of on of the top five highest peaks of the world (Kanchenjunga). If you are even lickier you could get a view of distant Mt. Everest. Tiger Hill is the place to visit early in the morning for the best views.

5. From New Jalpaiguri catch a train to Agartala and go at least as far as Badarpur in order to take in the spectacular Barak Valley segment between Lumding and Badarpur. Enroute, you will cross the might Bramhaputra near Guwahati.

6. Now there is a direct Rajdhani from Agartala to New Delhi which you can take to hightail it back to Delhi from this eastern extremity of India. There are many areas in and around Assam state and the surrounding border areas where you need a separate Inner Line Permit, but that should not be needed if you stay on the main railroad all the way to Agartala, or on the norther branch out of Lumding to Tinsukia on the Bramhaputra.

7. From Kolkata you could take a side trip to Dhaka in Bangladesh by the international non-stop Maitrye Express. Need less to say you will need a Bangladesh visa endorse for land border crossing to make this trip, and a multiple entry Indian Visa.

8. While in South India a trip to Mettupalayam from Chennai to take the Meter Gauge Nilgiri Line to Ootacamund is highly recommended.

That is what I would do if I had a couple months to gallivant around on trains With that much riding to do, I'd spurge for a AC 1st Indrail Pass.

How best to book tickets? Online? At stations? How far in advance?

You can book everything on line at the IRCTC website. It can be a bit of a pain to get yourself set up with an account. In the past they had difficulty sending an SMS to a number outside India in order to provide an OTP to establish verify your contact point. I think that is fixed now, so it should be easy.

Any dos and dont's?

Be careful with your baggage. They sometimes have a tendency to go walkabout while you were not looking, though less so from AC 1st Class, but all trains do not have that accommodation. Most common is AC or non-AC 3-Tier Sleeper or Chair Car (day trains). Even though reserved, there is a tendency for extraneous additional people to get on for short rides in those.

I gather from googling that India doesn't really have the concept of sleeper trains as in cars with private rooms with doors you can lock as on Amtrak, but what they call sleeper trains are more like communal dorms. Is this correct? Do they have showers on such trains?

AC or non-AC 3-Tier is communal dorm. AC 2-Tier is like Sections with fully curtain enclosed berths at night. AC First Class is shared compartments with lockable doors.

What is photography like in India. You occasionally hear scare stories of photography being absolutely forbidden in many locations, and of security staff and police acting allergically to anybody who even looks as if they might be planning to take pictures. Is this still the case? Any specific etiquette I should be aware of?

Things regarding photography are much more relaxed these days, is what I am told by my friends who do a lot of railroad photography in India.

 

[cirdan]

Thanks for all that info.
I see I'm going to have to get out a map and trace all those journeys.

 

[jis]

Just caught up on some additional info about the Vande Bharat. The delivery rate is now upto one set per week, and they are being deployed on new routes every so often.

The ones being procured currently are VB2 sets which are 16 car sets with 8 power cars and 8 trailers. Soon an 8 car version is coming out, the mini VB2 which will be deployed on more rural routes with lesser traffic potential. They will have just one Executive Class instead of two in the full 16 car sets, and of course 4 power cars instead of 8.

My birthplace Kolkata just got two more - Howrah to Ranchi, the capital of the state of Jharkhand, and Howrah to Puri, a popular seaside resort and the home of the famous Jagannath Temple, and the source of the English word Juggernaut. This train also serves the capital of Odissa State at Bhubaneshwar.

The 16 car VB2s are capable of accelerating from 0 to 60mph in about 50 sec. That performance itself is able to knock off 30-60 mins off an 8 hour scheduled compared to similar length locomotive hauled Shatabdi Express with similar stops. Since they all operate in mixed traffic on non-dedicated routes there is a lot of slowing down and speeding up involved even when there is no station stop as they make their way through congested routes. That is where the performance comes into play.

Contracts have been let out for constructing the first batch of 100 VB3 16 car Sleeper trains which will be used to replace Rajdhani Expresses as a starter to be followed by replacing other loco hauled expresses, and speeding them up in the process. These will be capable of 200kph (125mph) as and when track quality permits. They are due to come on line in 2025 or so.

Tenders have been called for the so called VB4 active tilting train sets that come after the VB3s. These are due 2026 or later.

 

[Ziv]

Just caught up on some additional info about the Vande Bharat. The delivery rate is now upto one set per week, and they are being deployed on new routes every so often.

The ones being procured currently are VB2 sets which are 16 car sets with 8 power cars and 8 trailers. Soon an 8 car version is coming out, the mini VB2 which will be deployed on more rural routes with lesser traffic potential. They will have just one Executive Class instead of two in the full 16 car sets, and of course 4 power cars instead of 8.

My birthplace Kolkata just got two more - Howrah to Ranchi, the capital of the state of Jharkhand, and Howrah to Puri, a popular seaside resort and the home of the famous Jagannath Temple, and the source of the English word Juggernaut. This train also serves the capital of Odissa State at Bhubaneshwar.

The 16 car VB2s are capable of accelerating from 0 to 60mph in about 50 sec. That performance itself is able to knock off 30-60 mins off an 8 hour scheduled compared to similar length locomotive hauled Shatabdi Express with similar stops. Since they all operate in mixed traffic on non-dedicated routes there is a lot of slowing down and speeding up involved even when there is no station stop as they make their way through congested routes. That is where the performance comes into play.

Contracts have been let out for constructing the first batch of 100 VB3 16 car Sleeper trains which will be used to replace Rajdhani Expresses as a starter to be followed by replacing other loco hauled expresses, and speeding them up in the process. These will be capable of 200kph (125mph) as and when track quality permits. They are due to come on line in 2025 or so.

Tenders have been called for the so called VB4 active tilting train sets that come after the VB3s. These are due 2026 or later.

That an 8 car train is considered a "mini" in India speaks volumes.
Even if the US/Amtrak/Brightline doubled or tripled the rolling stock in use in the US, and even if new Brightline-owned tracks were laid, and even if they found a way to get the freight railroads to give Amtrak/Brightline the priority they need on non/Brightline owned lines, we would still take a generation to get to the point where the majority of Americans would look at trains in a manner anywhere close to the way India, Britain or Italy does. As normal everyday transport that can be relied upon.
I am a case in point. I am returning to Montana and all my stuff is in storage in Billings but I am attempting to get a short term rental in Hamilton just south of Missoula. Getting the furniture and my Weber grill to Hamilton is easy, just rent a U Haul and go. But then I have to get back to Billings to get my car and bring it to Hamilton. It used to be that I could take a train from Missoula to Billings but that went away when the Hiawatha was cancelled in 1979. So now I will have to rent a car and probably pay a large "one way" fee. Or I could get a flight to Seattle or Denver and then one from there to Billings. I am not sure but I think Greyhound went the way of the dodo a few years ago too.

 

[Siegmund]

That an 8 car train is considered a "mini" in India speaks volumes.

I think it might have been considered a Mini in the United States as recently as the early or middle 80s. Look at a random picture of a 1970s Broadway Limited or Silver Meteor, and count carefully to see if Amtrak was enforcing the 18-car length limit or not the day the picture was taken...

I am a case in point. I am returning to Montana and all my stuff is in storage in Billings but I am attempting to get a short term rental in Hamilton just south of Missoula.

I wish we had the North Coast Hiawatha back too.... but in the current millennium, the solution is to rent a tow dolly from the same UHaul office where you rent your truck, and bring your car and your stuff to Hamilton at the same time.