Does Amtrak actually "own" stations?

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Pastor Dave

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From a previous thread of mine on the Orlando station, pennyk shared that the facility is actually owned by CSX who rents it to Amtrak for $1 per year.

Is this a common arrangement? Does Amtrak actually own stations, or do they merely lease space in a facility that some other entity owns?

To be honest, I never thought of this before. I assumed that Amtrak just held title to everything.

Dave
 
Amtrak does own some stations, generally the bigger ones like NYP & DC for example.

Many more stations are either owned by the original freight RR or its successor; or by the local city/town that the station is in.
 
Is this a common arrangement? Does Amtrak actually own stations, or do they merely lease space in a facility that some other entity owns?

To be honest, I never thought of this before. I assumed that Amtrak just held title to everything.
The situation with who owns the stations, the platforms, and the parking facilities can get rather complicated. Amtrak posted on their website several weeks ago a October 2010 ADA compliance update report on their (slow) progress in getting their stations to meet ADA standards. The report has enough interesting info in it to be worthy of it's own thread. Appendix 3 of the report has a table listing who owns and who has responsibility for the station structure, the platform, and the parking facilities. The fun part is that there are some entries that have question marks such as Trinidad CO where it appears that Amtrak is not really sure who actually owns the station or parking lot - State of Colorado? BNSF?.

The Amtrak Oct 2010 ADA report can be found at http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/BlobServer?blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1249216603583&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-disposition&blobheadervalue1=attachment;filename=Amtrak_ADA_AccessibilityComplianceReport_Oct2010.pdf. Appendix 2 is a handy table of the FY2010 on/off ridership, ticket revenue, and weekly train frequency for every station in the Amtrak system.
 
The ownership of Amtrak stations could fill a rather large book.

Amtrak owns most of the stations along the Northeast Corridor, the titles having been transferred from Conrail, but everywhere anything can be possible. Amtrak owns Chicago Union Station through a subsidiary, the Chicago Union Station Co. I believe Los Angeles Union Station is owned by a real estate subsidiary of BNSF.

In my local area, the Homewood, IL., station is owned by Canadian National (as successor to the Illinois Central, original builder of the station), although the village of Homewood has been making some overtures to buy it. (The adjacent commuter line platform, by contrast is owned by Metra).

Joliet Union Station is owned by the city of Joliet, which recently got a state grant to build an expanded transportation center on the site.

The Dyer, IN., Amshack is owned by Amtrak, but Dyer has taken over maintenance of the building and parking lot.

Each station has its own story.
 
Amtrak does own some stations, generally the bigger ones like NYP & DC for example.

Many more stations are either owned by the original freight RR or its successor; or by the local city/town that the station is in.
Amtrak does not own NYC or DC stations! They do own Wilmington and many other stations but the two you used in your example are privately owned.
 
Amtrak does own some stations, generally the bigger ones like NYP & DC for example.

Many more stations are either owned by the original freight RR or its successor; or by the local city/town that the station is in.
Amtrak does not own NYC or DC stations! They do own Wilmington and many other stations but the two you used in your example are privately owned.
Amtrak most certainly owns New York Penn Station, although the banks hold a major note against the station. But you can't mortgage something that you don't own and Amtrak President George Warrington mortgaged Penn a few years ago to meet payroll back when he was on the glide path to profitability.

DC is actually more complicated, it's a private/public partnership. And AFAIK, Amtrak is responsible for overseeing/administrating the Fed's interests in the partnership.
 
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]But you can't mortgage something that you don't own and Amtrak President George Warrington mortgaged Penn a few years ago to meet payroll back when he was on the glide path to profitability.
Wow, I had no idea that ever occurred. Off the top of your head, any idea of how long till Amtrak pays off the mortgage note? I'm sure I could dig through the financials and get some answers, but I was wondering if you might know offhand.
 
Amtrak most certainly owns New York Penn Station, although the banks hold a major note against the station. But you can't mortgage something that you don't own and Amtrak President George Warrington mortgaged Penn a few years ago to meet payroll back when he was on the glide path to profitability.

DC is actually more complicated, it's a private/public partnership. And AFAIK, Amtrak is responsible for overseeing/administrating the Fed's interests in the partnership.
Wonder if Amtrak could or has refinanced the note for NYP. Lock in those low rates while they can!

The ADA report table on station ownership lists U.S. Department of Transportation as the owner of DC Union Station and parking facility and Washington Terminal Corp. as the owner of the platforms. Amtrak/MARC/VRE/Union Station Redevelopment Corp. have responsibility for the station and parking garage and just Amtrak/MARC/VRE for the platforms. Sounds like a complicated arrangement. How did US DOT end up with ownership of WAS and not Amtrak?
 
]But you can't mortgage something that you don't own and Amtrak President George Warrington mortgaged Penn a few years ago to meet payroll back when he was on the glide path to profitability.
Wow, I had no idea that ever occurred. Off the top of your head, any idea of how long till Amtrak pays off the mortgage note? I'm sure I could dig through the financials and get some answers, but I was wondering if you might know offhand.
The loan was for $300 Million in 2001 and it was expected to be paid off in 2017.
 
Amtrak most certainly owns New York Penn Station, although the banks hold a major note against the station. But you can't mortgage something that you don't own and Amtrak President George Warrington mortgaged Penn a few years ago to meet payroll back when he was on the glide path to profitability.

DC is actually more complicated, it's a private/public partnership. And AFAIK, Amtrak is responsible for overseeing/administrating the Fed's interests in the partnership.
Wonder if Amtrak could or has refinanced the note for NYP. Lock in those low rates while they can!
As of the 2009 financials, they had not refinanced. The current rate is 9.5%.

The ADA report table on station ownership lists U.S. Department of Transportation as the owner of DC Union Station and parking facility and Washington Terminal Corp. as the owner of the platforms. Amtrak/MARC/VRE/Union Station Redevelopment Corp. have responsibility for the station and parking garage and just Amtrak/MARC/VRE for the platforms. Sounds like a complicated arrangement. How did US DOT end up with ownership of WAS and not Amtrak?
Amtrak owns a 99% interest in the Washington Terminal Corp. Don't know who owns the other 1%.

As for US DOT owning the station, they also technically own Amtrak. US DOT holds all the Preferred Stock shares in Amtrak in trust for the US Congress and the citizens of the US. I guess they figured that US DOT should also hold onto the station for some reason.
 
Both the Lorton VA and Sanford FL AutoTrain stations are owned by Amtrak.

One that is surprising is the New Orleans Amtrak station that serves three routes. Its owned by the New Orlaans Public Belt Railroad, a small switching and port serving railway. The station recieves no direct public money to run it, relying on rent from Amtrak and revenue only generated from railway services provided by the NOPBRR.
 
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Both the Lorton VA and Sanford FL AutoTrain stations are owned by Amtrak.

One that is surprising is the New Orleans Amtrak station that serves three routes. Its owned by the New Orlaans Public Belt Railroad, a small switching and port serving railway. The station recieves no direct public money to run it, relying on rent from Amtrak and revenue only generated from railway services provided by the NOPBRR.
I'm sure they also get "rent" from Greyhound who also uses the Station!
 
Amtrak most certainly owns New York Penn Station, although the banks hold a major note against the station. But you can't mortgage something that you don't own and Amtrak President George Warrington mortgaged Penn a few years ago to meet payroll back when he was on the glide path to profitability.

DC is actually more complicated, it's a private/public partnership. And AFAIK, Amtrak is responsible for overseeing/administrating the Fed's interests in the partnership.
Wonder if Amtrak could or has refinanced the note for NYP. Lock in those low rates while they can!
As of the 2009 financials, they had not refinanced. The current rate is 9.5%.

The ADA report table on station ownership lists U.S. Department of Transportation as the owner of DC Union Station and parking facility and Washington Terminal Corp. as the owner of the platforms. Amtrak/MARC/VRE/Union Station Redevelopment Corp. have responsibility for the station and parking garage and just Amtrak/MARC/VRE for the platforms. Sounds like a complicated arrangement. How did US DOT end up with ownership of WAS and not Amtrak?
Amtrak owns a 99% interest in the Washington Terminal Corp. Don't know who owns the other 1%.

As for US DOT owning the station, they also technically own Amtrak. US DOT holds all the Preferred Stock shares in Amtrak in trust for the US Congress and the citizens of the US. I guess they figured that US DOT should also hold onto the station for some reason.
I'll toss out the thought that, at least in the Northeast, owning some stations can be profitable. Back when I served in Philadelphia I often went to 30th Street Station to eat and people watch. With lots of trains in and out I would think that the rents in the food court would provide a nice chunk of change. It's kind of like the station is a destination in itself.

Other stations with heavy traffic - like Trenton for instance - have not given me the same vibe. That is simply a place to get on and get off, not "visit."

Dave
 
It is interesting how many major stations are not owned by Amtrak. Here is the list of the top 25 Amtrak stations by total ridership (origin and destination). Amtrak owns 10 (including the top 4), others own 15.

1. New York Penn, NY (7,832,874) <==Amtrak

2. Washington Union, DC (4,278,930) <==Amtrak

3. Philadelphia 30th Street, PA (3,675,761) <==Amtrak

4. Chicago Union, IL (3,080,564) <==Amtrak

5. Los Angeles Union, CA (1,475,920) <==Not Amtrak

6. South Station, Boston, MA (1,287,615) <==Not Amtrak

7. Sacramento, CA (1,109,351) <==Not Amtrak

8. Baltimore, MD (932,827) <==Amtrak

9. San Diego, CA (731,394) <==Not Amtrak

10. Albany-Rensselaer, NY (723,913) <==Not Amtrak

11. Wilmington, DE (664,429) <==Amtrak

12. New Haven, CT (661,656) <==Not Amtrak

13. Newark Penn, NJ (630,939) <==Not Amtrak

14. Irvine, CA (629,748) <==Not Amtrak

15. Portland, OR (618,131) <==Not Amtrak

16. BWI Airport, MD (617,349) <==Amtrak

17. Seattle, WA (615,735) <==Not Amtrak

18. Providence, RI (582,296) <==Amtrak

19. Milwaukee, WI (553,475) <==Not Amtrak

20. Harrisburg, PA (539,167) <==Amtrak

21. Emeryville, CA (520,969) <==Not Amtrak

22. Lancaster, PA (492,629) <==Amtrak

23. Davis, CA (434,779) <==Not Amtrak

24. Fullerton, CA (417,649) <==Not Amtrak

25. Trenton, NJ (411,869) <==Not Amtrak
 
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Both the Lorton VA and Sanford FL AutoTrain stations are owned by Amtrak.

One that is surprising is the New Orleans Amtrak station that serves three routes. Its owned by the New Orlaans Public Belt Railroad, a small switching and port serving railway. The station recieves no direct public money to run it, relying on rent from Amtrak and revenue only generated from railway services provided by the NOPBRR.
I'm sure they also get "rent" from Greyhound who also uses the Station!
Thats right I forgot about Greyhound using the New Orleans Station. Its obvious that they don't use it for free. But if you go back to the Golden age of railroading, there was a large bus terminal at the rear of Pennsylvania Station in NY. That rent revenue didn't seem to be of any concern when the wrecking ball came.
 
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Thanks for the stats PRR 60. :)

How about my CLE station? Since it isnt used by any other transportation network, I had assummed it was owned by Amtrak?? :rolleyes:
Cleveland is one of those fun stations. The station building is owned by Amtrak, the platform is owned by Norfolk Southern, and the parking is owned by the city of Cleveland.

I'm getting most of the station info from the Great American Stations site HERE.
 
Both the Lorton VA and Sanford FL AutoTrain stations are owned by Amtrak.

One that is surprising is the New Orleans Amtrak station that serves three routes. Its owned by the New Orlaans Public Belt Railroad, a small switching and port serving railway. The station recieves no direct public money to run it, relying on rent from Amtrak and revenue only generated from railway services provided by the NOPBRR.
I'm sure they also get "rent" from Greyhound who also uses the Station!
Thats right I forgot about Greyhound using the New Orleans Station. Its obvious that they don't use it for free. But if you go back to the Golden age of railroading, there was a large bus terminal at the rear of Pennsylvania Station in NY. That rent revenue didn't seem to be of any concern when the wrecking ball came.
The Pennsylvania Greyhound Terminal in New York was not actually on the property of Penn Station, but across 33rd street from it. It was midway in the block between 7th and 8th avenues, extending from 33rd to 34th street, approximately on the site of the current One Penn Plaza office building. Greyhound moved from it and its other NYC terminal on 50th near 8th avenue (where Buddy Ebsen boarded a Scenicruiser in the film "Breakfast at Tiffany's), back in 1963 into the first expansion of the Port Authority Bus Terminal.

Greyhound Lines, due to a substantial ownership by several railroads for a number of years, utilized a lot of different railroad stations across the country. As the Greyhound Corp. bought these shares from the railroads after World War II and on to the '50's, they tended to move away from the RR stations.

Now with the government entities building multi-modal terminals, the trend is to move back together for seamless multimodal travel.
 
Greyhound Lines, due to a substantial ownership by several railroads for a number of years, utilized a lot of different railroad stations across the country. As the Greyhound Corp. bought these shares from the railroads after World War II and on to the '50's, they tended to move away from the RR stations.

Now with the government entities building multi-modal terminals, the trend is to move back together for seamless multimodal travel.
We'll get another confusing station soon enough in Riverside. Like every train station in Riverside County, the station and parking lots are owned by the Riverside County Transportation Commission. (It sees daily SWC service +4 San Joaquins buses each way.) The City is buying nearby property to be used as a bus terminal for both local public buses and intercity operators, mostly Greyhound and Crucero. (Probably also Lineas Ejecutivas, a carrier that serves the cross-border market.) So when that goes through, the platforms and half the parking will be owned by the county, but the only terminal building (none exists presently), the bus terminal and half the parking will be owned by the city, and some of that will undoubtedly be leased by operators and vendors.

As far as Amtrak services go, I can only hope we'll get a QuickTrak machine. The Metrolink machines won't print out AGR tickets.
 
The Wisconsin Dells station was built and is owned by a local

citizens organization. A volunteer staffs the station and works

with Amtrak personnel as an agent would. It is a nice, well kept

station.
 
WAS has had a complex history. Formerly owned jointly by the B&O and Pennsylvania RR, it was transfered to the National Park Service to serve as the National Visitor Center for the Bicentennial in 1976. After a couple years, this closed and station deteriorated severely, closing in 1981 for safety reasons (chunks of the roof were falling in). The DOT took it over from the Park Service, and paid for part of the restoration along with the commercial interests that operate the shopping and restaurants.
 
I don't know if this slipped between the cracks or not but the Hammond, LA station is getting a million dollar canopy. In the '80's the IC ripped up its second main line, which was closest to the depot, through Hammond and most of the way to Chicago. Asphalt patching didn't seem to be sufficient to cover the old right of way especially when the train was not spotted at the asphalt walk ways. I drove up yesterday to find all the old bricks on the north side of the depot walkway being torn out of the ground,palletized and moved away from the right of way. There was a sign that stated that it was a Federal dollar project; the station is owned by the Hammond Chamber of Commerce. Thumbs up for their heads up in getting the $$$. :hi:
 
IIRC The ALC platform is owned by Amtrak, but the parking lot and little park adjacent to the platform are owned by NS. NS has a MOW facility at ALC, and I think Amtrak only owns the concrete platform.
 
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