Eastern Sleeping Car Passengers Pre-Order Meals

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I got that attitude when ordering breakfast as well, not quite as bad as what you described but close to it. I asked a question about an item on the menu and she said “what we have is written on the menu, you tell me what you want” So classy :)

I’ve also been scolded on a Michigan train for ordering my free bottled water in business class wrong and no joke, the attendant was upset with me when I put the cap back on his pen after signing for my free water. You can’t make it up. Ha.

Only on Amtrak. American Airlines has a few bad apples but lacks the consistent attitude of Amtrak’s cafe car staff.

Since meals can be pre-ordered I don’t understand why you can’t pre-order individual breakfast items and even specify a time for them to be dropped off.

Not all Amtrak cafe car attendants have attitude (some are great) but attitude is frequent enough that it’s an expected downer when taking the train.
 
Only on Amtrak. American Airlines has a few bad apples but lacks the consistent attitude of Amtrak’s cafe car staff.

Since meals can be pre-ordered I don’t understand why you can’t pre-order individual breakfast items and even specify a time for them to be dropped off.

Not all Amtrak cafe car attendants have attitude (some are great) but attitude is frequent enough that it’s an expected downer when taking the train.

I’ve heard the stories but I’ve had great service on American personally. But I haven’t flown with them very often.

And yes Amtrak has some wonderful employees as well. To counter my Michigan story, a cafe attendant on a train to Carbondale offered to get me some crew waters instead of me purchasing a bottled water (Because on Amtrak you can only get 1 bottle of water for free...).
 
American Airlines staff is overall good, with Admirals Club and on-board staff pretty consistently excellent. Much better than Amtrak. I wonder why: railroads being a more masculine culture, pay differences, railroad culture generally, unions, government vs. private sector or what?
 
They should have provided you with the means to find out the sodium content. That is important nutritional information and worth knowing about the food you eat. It would be good to see it here, too, if you find out.
They should provide the sodium content for the traditional dining food too, and even at gourmet restaurants. I suspect that in all cases, it will be too high relative to medical opinion.
 
American Airlines staff is overall good, with Admirals Club and on-board staff pretty consistently excellent. Much better than Amtrak. I wonder why: railroads being a more masculine culture, pay differences, railroad culture generally, unions, government vs. private sector or what?
Probably because Amtrak's on-board service is understaffed, and there's a lot of uncertainty about whether they'll even have jobs. And we really don't know how the OBS is treated by management, union, nor not.

Besides, union or non-union doesn't make a difference. I remember Continental Airlines back in the Frank Lorenzo days, after he kicked out the unions. The service was horrible, the staff took their frustrations out on the passengers. The only reason I flew with them was because they had the government city-pair contract to where I was flying.

If you treat your workers like disposable dirt, they'll just pass it on alsong.
 
The pictures in the menu look disgusting. I’m not looking forward to my ride in September. Amtrak needs to get its act together, or people will give up on them.
They are taking a dismal product and 'making it more attractive' by allowing for pre-order. But it's very monotonous and all looks and tastes the same... over-processed; high in sodium and fat; no texture and no taste.

Am I impressed? No. Disgusted? Yes. Try ordering the kosher meal... it may be a slight step ahead with quality. I think you can get salmon or chicken... let us know how you do. Below is a pic from a kosher airline meal... it won't be that good... 😒

20180703_211530.jpg.294b4e745aa170b8f548808f1766c63a.jpg
 
The Flexible Dining breakfasts have driven me away. I am Select Plus, from sleeping car rides on the Crescent, but those breakfasts are so awful (little food, bad quality and attitude when being fed) that I am not taking Amtrak again any time soon.

Edited to add: from the pre-ordering screen shots, it looks like you can't select the breakfast items that you want; you just order "1 Breakfast". Part of the frustration with Flexible Dining breakfasts is dealing with ordering it.

Somehow I'm always "wrong". If I go to the cafe car to order it, I'm wrong, because I'm told that I should have ordered it from the sleeping car attendant; and if I ask the sleeping car attendant (who's usually nicer than the cafe car person), I'm still wrong because I'm told that I should have gone to the cafe car to pick it up. And when I'm in the cafe car, I'm wrong when I order, because I'm supposed to wait in an unmarked area, and each item that I order is a source of frustration for the cafe car attendant.

It's just totally frustrating, and for the cr_p food, it's just not worth it. I started bringing my own breakfast (since 1 small meal on the day when the northbound Crescent arrives in NYP around 1pm) is not enough, and then I get irked that I'm paying over $300 for a one-way trip and am literally bringing my own food.

I definitely do not want to bring today's political/social divides into this but I do wonder if part of the attitude/service issues in the cafe cars is due to a resentment of an older white guy, presumably with the means to pay for sleeping car space; am I viewed as "the oppressor"?
When riding the Cardinal last December, I was told that breakfast was 'buffet style' and 'take whatever you want.' So I ordered two breakfast sandwiches and got them. Oh well. Guess they cut back on that too. Sounds like they give you your box with whatever they put in it... along with a coffee if requested... and send you on your way. And, 'with attitude.' All this reminds me of the fall of the roman empire!

Just for fun, I googled prison breakfast...

prison_breakfast.jpg
 
I definitely do not want to bring today's political/social divides into this but I do wonder if part of the attitude/service issues in the cafe cars is due to a resentment of an older white guy, presumably with the means to pay for sleeping car space; am I viewed as "the oppressor"?
The only people you can count on Amtrak staff treating with genuine concern and respect are each other. Everyone else is fair game for ignoring, criticizing, and barking orders at no matter their wealth or skin color. If you think Amtrak staff treat sleeper customers poorly you should give coach a try. If you think coach is bad try walking down a platform as a trainspotter carrying a camera and no ticket. That's not to say times aren't tense right now, but Amtrak service issues predate the current distrust by decades.
 
The only people you can count on Amtrak staff treating with genuine concern and respect are each other. Everyone else is fair game for ignoring, criticizing, and barking orders at no matter their wealth or skin color. If you think Amtrak staff treat sleeper customers poorly you should give coach a try. If you think coach is bad try walking down a platform as a trainspotter carrying a camera and no ticket. That's not to say times aren't tense right now, but Amtrak service issues predate the current distrust by decades.
Unfortunately, that sums it up pretty well....spoken as someone who spent 30 years trying to overcompensate for it.....
 
The only people you can count on Amtrak staff treating with genuine concern and respect are each other. Everyone else is fair game for ignoring, criticizing, and barking orders at no matter their wealth or skin color. If you think Amtrak staff treat sleeper customers poorly you should give coach a try. If you think coach is bad try walking down a platform as a trainspotter carrying a camera and no ticket. That's not to say times aren't tense right now, but Amtrak service issues predate the current distrust by decades.
Good and bad service has always been an issue on Amtrak... regardless of ethnicity or gender. I was waiting at the door for the EB to pull into SEA 6 hours late. The train was delayed again so a local could pull in ahead of it. Mentioned to the attendant that it didn't seem right to make us wait when we're already so late and I have a long way to drive ahead. He sneered and told me that 'They also have connections to make, sir. You shouldn't just be thinking about yourself.' This guy had an attitude for the entire trip. As he was being so noxious I kept in my pocket the $20 tip I was going to give him and just walked off the train.

All he would have had to say is... "I feel your frustration" and he would have had that tip. 😒
 
I wonder why: railroads being a more masculine culture, pay differences, railroad culture generally, unions, government vs. private sector or what

I'm focused primarily on LD trains and what I've observed. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

The key issue as I see it is that there's no incentive for Amtrak Onboard Services staff (OBS) to provide good customer service. Secondary is training, standard procedures and the tools to enable OBS to provide a customer service experience.

I've seen OBS staff who are really dedicated to doing a good job slowly get worn down by the OBS who "tow the line" of "managing the self-loading cargo".

Setting the Union Contract aside, there are a few things I see that could improve this:
  1. Go to 100% Electronic Ordering/Service: Let the computers do the work of figuring out which passengers are getting which meals at which times. Put orders and service items in a POS like almost any restaurant today. Let the computer figure out inventory and report that back so things can get restocked properly. This would also enable sleeper car customers to get cafe car items instead of flex dining, or reminders to bring coffee to customers as selected times. It would also possibly enable better communication between OBS.
  2. Empower the LSA to task OBS during idle times.
  3. Better training:
    1. Customer service is all about training: Train people to say "I understand your frustration". Give them scenarios. Help them improve continuously.
    2. Cross-train all OBS: Let SCA help out in the Dining Car during rushes. Have the LSA cover for the Cafe Car attendant during their breaks. Open up the upstairs wet bar for drinks when the Observation Car is packed. Let the OBS with personality and who do higher sales numbers train/share tips with those who aren't selling as much.
    3. Train OBS staff to do things in the off-hours to help improve overall service. Things like deep-cleaning idle rooms or having pleasant conversation with the sleeper car passengers.
  4. Every Sleeping Car customer gets a survey. Have them see if they remember their SCA's name. Build metrics around OBS who are hitting and not hitting their numbers and build an incentive around getting good surveys and making people answer surveys.
  5. Make all management in the Long Distance Service Lines ride the trains end-to-end at least once quarterly.
These are all things that every airline and most customer-service oriented agencies have done already.
 
Not all Amtrak cafe car attendants have attitude (some are great) but attitude is frequent enough that it’s an expected downer when taking the train.

There is something that I have not seen mentioned in this discussion of "attitude". Perhaps contributing to the "negative/poor" attitudes of some staff members is the "attitudes" of some of the guests that they serve.

On the Silver Meteor, the Cafe attendant was a rather sullen young man who looked depressed. I sat in the Lounge car for sometime enjoying my beverages and was able to observe him and the guests he served. I saw some unfriendly and disrespectful guests when he served them. He did his job; I saw no hostile reaction from him towards these individuals. When a guest was pleasant with the young man, there was a noticeable difference in his service. Most of the guests, including the pleasant ones, did not leave a tip. When the young man served me, I tried to be a bit conversational as he prepared my order. He nicely responded. After I had paid, I did put a tip in his tip container. His demeanor brightened, he smiled, and offered his thanks.

Is it possible that some of those Amtrak staff members have been sufficiently dis-respected over their years of working for Amtrak that their "sour" attitudes now reflect the "sour" attitudes of some of their previous guests?
 
Is it possible that some of those Amtrak staff members have been sufficiently dis-respected over their years of working for Amtrak that their "sour" attitudes now reflect the "sour" attitudes of some of their previous guests?

This applies to all customer service jobs. While I agree that Amtrak customers/passengers come from a much larger segment of the population and cover a much wider range of unacceptable behaviors, how OBS deal with it depends a lot on their training and incentives. I think they get extensive training on safety, use of equipment, railroad procedures, etc...but how much do they get on being nice to customers who are often not very nice themselves?
 
American Airlines staff is overall good, with Admirals Club and on-board staff pretty consistently excellent. Much better than Amtrak. I wonder why: railroads being a more masculine culture, pay differences, railroad culture generally, unions, government vs. private sector or what?

As someone who has interviewed with almost all of the major airlines to be a flight attendant I feel somewhat qualified to say why the airlines are doing better. Airline pay really isn't as great as people make it out to be. The attendants are only paid from when the door closes to when the door opens. So that entire time when you are boarding or deplaning they are not being paid for that. So for a day of flying CLT-JFK-ORD even though they might leave at 0700 Eastern and arrive in Chicago at 1500 Central they are only paid for four hours instead of the entire 9 hours they are technically at work (airport and flight time). The other thing about the airlines as they have more visible competition than Amtrak. On most routes AA flies they are competing for passengers with UA, DL, and at least one or more of the ULC carriers. Which forces them to compete in terms of customer service.

Me personally I don't like AA I find their staff especially the CLT ground staff to be very terse and unwelcoming. The flight attendants I've always found very nice and professional. But the ground staff can sink the initial impression and cause you to judge more unfairly. Now Amtrak is the only real passenger carrier for rail transport and one of very few land based ones. And as bad as we complain about Amtrak's service Greyhound is reported to be far worse. Now that being said Amtrak does compete with the airlines on markets in the NEC, other state corridors, and on the long distance network.

I really wouldn't say the railroad is a more masculine culture just like I wouldn't say the airlines are more feminine. I think that has nothing to do with the equation. Amtrak is interesting because it's "Railroad Culture" was inherited from the many railroads that it originated from. The Silvers OBS is out of an old Seaboard base and generally the service has been very good. The Crescent, and CONO are out of New Orleans. One of my favorite memories is riding the Crescent back south and walking by the kitchen in the heritage dining car. The cooks we're singing old southern gospel which was amazing. Then you have Chicago which Amtrak seams to have inherited the Penn Central culture.

Probably because Amtrak's on-board service is understaffed, and there's a lot of uncertainty about whether they'll even have jobs. And we really don't know how the OBS is treated by management, union, nor not.

If you treat your workers like disposable dirt, they'll just pass it on alsong.

That is exactly the truth right there. I've been several places not just in transport where the employees are treated like dirt and they pass that attitude along to the customer. I remember I was once grocery shopping and the manager made the cashier cry in front of customers. That type of behavior then made me realize that's why that store was nicknamed the "Hateful (insert store name here)" because the service was always horrible. Naturally I took the cashiers side, and called corporate to complain about that managers behavior. Things have since improved a bit after that manager has left. But things don't improve overnight. It's been five years since that manager left and that place is only marginally better despite having an almost completely new crew.

Understaffing is definitely a problem at Amtrak on my last trip the SCA on the Crescent was responsible for two Viewliners instead of the average One car per SCA. Meaning they had 24 roomettes, and 6 bedrooms to make up. Which is more than a Superliner attendant has to deal with. Now granted that train wasn't overly full but still if you have a busy stop that is a very hard schedule to maintain for one employee.

I think you are also right OBS doesn't tend to be treated well by management. I distinctly remember a Pacific Parlor Car attendant telling me about how strict Amtrak takes their inventory to the point he felt like he was being treated like a thief. My general feeling is if you treat someone like a thief long enough eventually they will become one. That also goes for the same theory if you treat someone like dirt long enough they will eventually become like what you are treating them. However if you treat them the opposite way and actively take an interest in making their lives better, treat them with respect they become better employees.


I just want to know what airline that was on because Chicken Tenders sounds like a much better option than what I normally get on a flight.
 
I'm focused primarily on LD trains and what I've observed. Happy to be corrected on any of this.

As I don't know how to split the quote up I've taken your post and I'm going to Italic what you said vs. my thoughts which will be non italic.

Go to 100% Electronic Ordering/Service: Let the computers do the work of figuring out which passengers are getting which meals at which times. Put orders and service items in a POS like almost any restaurant today. Let the computer figure out inventory and report that back so things can get restocked properly. This would also enable sleeper car customers to get cafe car items instead of flex dining, or reminders to bring coffee to customers as selected times. It would also possibly enable better communication between OBS.

I assume you mean an electronic ordering system similar to what European restaurants use so that they can send the orders to the kitchen in real time. I think that it would work well but one thing that would have to be rectified is that several parts of the Amtrak network have little to no cell service so you would have to have a way to manage the inventory to back up off line, and then send to the cloud when the network returns. And there has to be a way to do communicating between the attendants and the LSA/Chef in these no service areas. Now something else that could work is a function on the Amtrak app that allows you to order service to your seat or your room at any time. Or if you don't want to add it to the app you could put it on the Amtrakconnect system. But then you have the problem of the western trains which don't have Amtrak Connect.


Empower the LSA to task OBS during idle times.

I think this would be a good thing. Granted there are only so many tasks one can do during the downtimes but Russian Railways tend to do a good job at finding tasks. They vacuum the corridors during the day which I've never seen an Amtrak attendant do on any trip. Granted Russian Railways offers far longer trips than Amtrak could ever dream of. And as someone who has worked on multiple all day excursions and other PV trips there are very few idle times in my opinion. Of course I've never been a car attendant on those trips I've always been mechanical or food service. But when I didn't have something to do I could easily find a restroom that needed cleaning, trash to be taken away, etc... In other words yes there are things the staff could do in their idle time to fight away the boredom.




Better training:

  1. Customer service is all about training: Train people to say "I understand your frustration". Give them scenarios. Help them improve continuously.
  2. Cross-train all OBS: Let SCA help out in the Dining Car during rushes. Have the LSA cover for the Cafe Car attendant during their breaks. Open up the upstairs wet bar for drinks when the Observation Car is packed. Let the OBS with personality and who do higher sales numbers train/share tips with those who aren't selling as much.
  3. Train OBS staff to do things in the off-hours to help improve overall service. Things like deep-cleaning idle rooms or having pleasant conversation with the sleeper car passengers.


I agree customer service is all about training. At my airline interviews were given scenarios in which to respond to common customer questions or problems. And it is very difficult at an interview because sometimes saying what is the right thing for the customer is the wrong thing for the company. But the quickest way to calm a customer is to understand what their problem is. Something that is often forgotten when flying or taking the train people are traveling for multiple reasons, funerals, job relocations, vacation, sickness, etc.... we don't know what someone is going thru when we talk to them. So the best thing we can try to do is put ourselves in the mindset of someone at their worst and try and understand what they are going thru. Something else to keep in the mind of an employee is for most Americans this could be their first train journey. They might not know the things employees and experienced travelers know about the processes and that requires understanding. It's not just at Amtrak but many companies and industries lack the empathy training.

As far as cross training OBS I believe that they are. Someone could correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they are. I have often seen my SCA helping out in the diner during rushes. Now opening up the wet bar for drinks in the Sightseer Lounge sounds like a great idea because when people see something they are more likely to want it. And it wouldn't be hard to take a dining car server and post them in the bar at off hours. You are paying them the same regardless so why not utilize their time more efficiently. That being said I believe it has to be an LSA who serves alcohol which complicates things. But I do agree opening that bar would be a good idea. I don't personally like the idea of a tip share because it seams to me like the shining stars would be losing money if the rest of the service doesn't pick up. Then they would be less likely to serve their passengers better because they lose that incentive.

I believe training them to do things in the off hours would be a wonderful thing. Look at VIA Rail Canada their employees offer incredible service. I remember on my last trip on the Canadian one of the SCAs gave a lecture about the Canadian Farm because he used to be a farmer in the area the train was passing. So he gave an hour long lecture and question and answer session about what it is like to farm. It keeps the passengers happy, and it gives someone who otherwise would be sitting in their room waiting for a call something to do to keep boredom from taking over. Pleasant conversation with passengers in my opinion is one of the best things an employee can do. That being said it is difficult to judge if someone is open to it because they may or may not be.

On my last trip on the Crescent I had a great SCA and we talked about trains and shared our photos of trains to each other for at least a good two or three hours in his downtime. It was really enjoyable for me because it was someone to talk to, and enjoyable for him to have someone who had the same hobby as him.


  1. Every Sleeping Car customer gets a survey. Have them see if they remember their SCA's name. Build metrics around OBS who are hitting and not hitting their numbers and build an incentive around getting good surveys and making people answer surveys.
I'm not sure that is the best metric for OBS satisfaction because I can barely remember peoples names I see on a daily basis much less a survey weeks after a trip. I do agree that every passenger should get a survey. Of note I only really remember one of my attendants name in the past and thats because he was so out of the ordinary I couldn't forget it. The only time I've seen a coach attendant give a speech about maintaining a restroom. I was impressed and I've heard he has been promoted.


  1. Make all management in the Long Distance Service Lines ride the trains end-to-end at least once quarterly.
While we are at it we should make the entire executive team at Amtrak do it. Even better do it undercover boss style and disguise them because someone like Mr. Stephen Gardner might be surprised at what is mentioned about him candidly. The problem about most management and executive trips is the employees get notice that they are on board prior to when the trip occurs. So they are on their toes more and provide better service. Now if they are riding unannounced that provides a better metric because the employees are less likely to be putting on a show to please management. Especially if the management or executives know how to pose as a railfan, or someone in the industry who knows the names of management and can ask the opinion of the current management. Most of them would be really surprised at what the employees think about them. Most of which is based on how the employees feel about the management not asking them for input on job changes.

There is something that I have not seen mentioned in this discussion of "attitude". Perhaps contributing to the "negative/poor" attitudes of some staff members is the "attitudes" of some of the guests that they serve.

Is it possible that some of those Amtrak staff members have been sufficiently dis-respected over their years of working for Amtrak that their "sour" attitudes now reflect the "sour" attitudes of some of their previous guests?

Yes the passengers attitude are often hard to keep up with especially after constant hours of dealing with it. The public unfornately feel like they are entitled to just about everything these days which is a problem. And that sense of entitlement and talking down to service workers most definitely can reflect in sour attitudes. Now there is nothing the company can do about that. However we as passengers should remember that when we travel. I try and always maintain a lighthearted mood, that likes to cut up and make jokes. I always treat people with respect, but I find the humor relaxes people. Once you can get someone laughing it instantly makes someone feel better. A little bit of understanding on the side of passengers would go a long way into helping the crew. Just like some understanding from the crew would greatly help the passengers.
 
But the ground staff can sink the initial impression and cause you to judge more unfairly. Now Amtrak is the only real passenger carrier for rail transport and one of very few land based ones. And as bad as we complain about Amtrak's service Greyhound is reported to be far worse. Now that being said Amtrak does compete with the airlines on markets in the NEC, other state corridors, and on the long distance network.
One of the competitive advantages for Amtrak is that the experience with "ground staff" is of much lesser importance than when flying, at least for shorter corridor trips. For example, when I ride the NEC up to New York or Washington or Boston, etc., I can roll out of my car, go down to the platform, and board the train without ever having to interact with "ground staff." Of course, there are the "cattle lines" in Boston, New York, Philly, and DC. When I travel from those stations, being a frequent traveler, I can use the lounges, so there's one place where "ground staff" service is important. Generally, they do pretty well, though some of the lounges have some quirky rules, like no eating outside food in the DC lounge. Baggage checking is another thing, though I may be one of the only people in the world who checks baggage on the NEC, and that's my ski stuff to/from Boston once a year, and I do that the day before the trip.

If you want to fly between NEC points, you have to go through the same ground ringamarole that people flying around the world have to do -- check in, security check, go to the gate line up to board, etc. Maybe you can use the airline app to check in early, and maybe you can avoid checking luggage, but you're stuck with dealing with ground staff. If I ride the Acela (or the Regional), I can use the app to buy my ticket 5 minutes before the train leaves. (Actually, I have bought them on the train before the conductor comes through, but that's living dangerously, especially in Baltimore with tunnels on each side of the station, where cell service is dropped.) Basically, I can get to the station 5-10 minutes before train time and make my train without having to interact with anybody. I'm pretty militant about arriving at the airport 2 hours early, because once I arrived an hour and a half early and missed my flight, the check-in lines were so long (and I was pre-checked in, too).

Long distance might be a bit different. On the one hand, there are unstaffed stations -- no need to worry about "ground staff", but you might wonder whether or not the train will ever arrive. :) A lot of long distance trips involve transiting Chicago, so you're either going to be dealing with the cattle lines and inadequate waiting rooms or the service in the lounge, so the "ground staff" there is more important. Also, more likelihood of checking baggage for an LD trip, so there's that "ground staff" too. In general, I'm pretty satisfied with the "ground staff" service at Amtrak stations, but then, I'm pretty easy to please, and most of the time I don't have to deal with anybody.
 
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