Electric Cars

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Ziv

OBS Chief
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Oct 25, 2011
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628
;-) I see a CyberTruck in your future! LOL!
Trading my Yukon XL in on a new Denali XL...need the 6.2 V-8 and like the weight & size. No little toy battery car will do. Now get off my lawn!
 

drdumont

Service Attendant
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It’s a fairly new regulation. I believe the final rule came out in 2018. My Bolt has a noisemaker, but it’s not that noticeable. They chose a noise that is kind of a white noise.
ISTR the federal regulation stated that as of Sept 2019, at least 50% of EVs manufactured had to have the PWS Pedestrian Warning System which made noise at speeds under about 18 mph. All EVS made after Sept 2020 had to have it.

Interestingly enough, my two Tesla Model 3s, manufactured in Feb and Mar of 2020 make noise in reverse, but not in Drive. And to this day I can't get Tesla to explain this.

If you want to witness this foolishness, see the YouTube video.

I've modified mine to make the Jetsons' noise, JFTHOI. It amuses the kids who play in my alley.
 

drdumont

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Now that more and more cars have pedestrian detection systems so the driver doesn't run over them, it would seem that such vehicles be allowed to (or required to) produce sound only when a pedestrian is detected. This would reduce the noise pollution created by internal combustion engines and theoretically eliminated (except for that electric whine) in electric vehicles and dramatically reduced in hybrids.
The Teslas are pretty much silent, except for the HVAC fans, which make about as much noise as my Buick engine at idle. There is no whine audible in either of my single motor Model 3s. I'll report back when my 3 motor is delivered.
 

Ziv

OBS Chief
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
628
Rivian is the better looking vehicle, by far. And 5.5 tons of towing capacity is nothing to sneeze at.
But Tesla is the more accomplished vehicle manufacturer at this point.
I can see choosing either one.
I hope to see both on the road soon.

I would rather have the RT1
 

MARC Rider

Conductor
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Apr 5, 2011
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We live in HOT Florida and A/C is nearly a must. We also need vehicles that can carry weight AND have range along with stop-and-go performance without needing any additional charge during the work day - we all use our vehicles for work and finding time to wait for a charge would not fit the work schedule.

In our area, much of it rural, there are not many places to get a charge - especially not a rapid one.

Two of my daughters pull a trailer with weights of 5,000 - 10,000 pounds trailer and cargo. Another daughter drives a cargo van hauling 4,000-6,000 pounds of cargo daily. They all may need to travel 150+ miles every day in traffic and open road.

So far we have not seen an EV that fits their need and is affordable.

I need a truck or van that can carry my tools and supplies and able to travel 130+ miles a day. Since I do not work in the same place each day, access to public chargers is not really an option and there are time when the only power available is a generator.

We are not opposed to EV's and would happily use one if there was one that did what we need and be affordable - still a little ways off from that.
Of course, EVs are not yet suitable for people living in rural areas, especially if they are in the trades and drive long distances every day. However, the vast majority of Americans live in town or suburbia and they could do very well with with both smaller, more fuel efficient ICE cars for their daily needs and EVs, whether battery or plug-n hybrid. If you really need something with super capacity for an annual road trip, well, that's what auto rental agencies are for. This sort of changeover would really reduce GHG emissions and gasoline consumption.

Of course, the long term solution is to redevelop urban/suburban America into more dense walkable communities that rely more on public transportation. People living there might only need to drive for pleasure, on weekend and vacation road trips into the country, and then they can select the type of vehicle most suitable for that particular trip and not end up driving some overpowered, oversized monster 15,000 miles every year. Of course, people in the trades and delivery vehicles will still be driving around, but there's a lot of engineering work going on with them right now. Certainly various forms of hybrids are practical and currently in use.
 

MARC Rider

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Federal regulations require hybrids and electric vehicles travelling at less than 18.6 mph (30 km/h) to emit warning sounds that pedestrians must be able to hear over background noises.
When did this rule come out? My 2017 RAV4 hybrid certainly doesn't do this.
 

drdumont

Service Attendant
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When did this rule come out? My 2017 RAV4 hybrid certainly doesn't do this.
Looks like 2018. Still trying to remember where I saw the actual Federal Mandate.
<EDIT> Ahh... here it is...
 

drdumont

Service Attendant
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I've resisted the Full Self Driving FUD. No way was I going to spend $7K (Now $8K) for tht "option". Although the terminology is a bit misleading, Tesla has has been pretty upfront that Full Self Driving was a work in progress, Beta software, etc. And taken quite a lot of flak for my standpoint by the rather rabid fanbois. So be it. I have so much fun driving my Model 3s, that money went to upgrading to a 4WD and bigger battery. SOmething tangible and Here Right Now.
The limited lanekeeping and a couple of the FSD features available with the standard Cruise Control are scary as Hell, not dependable, and fail at the slightest hint of faded stripes, rain, snow, etc. (Anyway, the car is too much fun to drive without that stuff).
I rather doubt that Fully Autonomous Driverless vehicles will be a staple in my lifetime. It is my fervent wish that it be so.
It is also my fervent wish for the return of 7 Days a Week Service, Chefs, Galleys and Dining service, The Sunset going all the way to Florida, and the Dallas - Meridian connection will actually happen.
An old man can dream, can't one?
 

drdumont

Service Attendant
AU Supporter
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Messages
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We live in HOT Florida and A/C is nearly a must. We also need vehicles that can carry weight AND have range along with stop-and-go performance without needing any additional charge during the work day - we all use our vehicles for work and finding time to wait for a charge would not fit the work schedule.

In our area, much of it rural, there are not many places to get a charge - especially not a rapid one.

Two of my daughters pull a trailer with weights of 5,000 - 10,000 pounds trailer and cargo. Another daughter drives a cargo van hauling 4,000-6,000 pounds of cargo daily. They all may need to travel 150+ miles every day in traffic and open road.

So far we have not seen an EV that fits their need and is affordable.

I need a truck or van that can carry my tools and supplies and able to travel 130+ miles a day. Since I do not work in the same place each day, access to public chargers is not really an option and there are time when the only power available is a generator.

We are not opposed to EV's and would happily use one if there was one that did what we need and be affordable - still a little ways off from that.
One of the most calm, rational and well spelled out opinions on why someone hasn't bought an Electric Vehicle. There is no One Size Fits All solution. Thanks for a ray of sunshine.
 

Bob Dylan

Conductor
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
19,972
A friend of mine had the regular 12 Volt Battery die in her 2017 Prius,.

The Service Manager @ the Toyota Dealer where she bought it, told her under no circumstances try to "jump" start the car.

It had to be towed to the dealer ( covered by AAA)and a New 84 Month " Prius 12 Volt Battery" ( her Warranty didnt cover this)plus reprogramming her Smart Key cost her $389!!!

Sounds excessive to me, does anyone with a Prius have any info on this???
 

PVD

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There are plenty of "how to jump start a Prius" videos out there, so people certainly do it, I don't know off the top of my head if it is sanctioned by Toyota. Next time I talk to my sister and brother in law I'll ask, they each have one, and this in Bob's second.
 
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PVD

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August 10th I'm delivering on lecture on battery technology and its importance to the energy storage capabilities needed to make renewable energy sources increasingly useful. The following week, tag team with reps from the NY Power Authority who deliver an electric car presentation, after which I do trucks and buses and the need for understanding the infrastructure requirements. (The class is made up of year 5 students in an electrical apprenticeship program) NYPA used to bring cars and we pawed over them in the garage under our training center, but in the covid era it will be a Zoom webinar.
 

railiner

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Mar 20, 2009
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A friend of mine had the regular 12 Volt Battery die in her 2017 Prius,.

The Service Manager @ the Toyota Dealer where she bought it, told her under no circumstances try to "jump" start the car.

It had to be towed to the dealer ( covered by AAA)and a New 84 Month " Prius 12 Volt Battery" ( her Warranty didnt cover this)plus reprogramming her Smart Key cost her $389!!!

Sounds excessive to me, does anyone with a Prius have any info on this???
I had a 2004, and now a 2010. The 12 volt battery is located below the cargo area, but the owner's manual has clear instruction's on how to jump start the car.
Under the hood on the driver's side is a plastic cover near the windshield on the driver's side, that snaps off. There is a small jumper terminal under a spring loaded cover that you connect the positive cable to, and the negative cable goes to any convenient ground. I have done this twice in 16 years.
 

Devil's Advocate

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Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
11,427
I can see (or would that be hear) your point of view. However, would you agree that electric cars need to make more noise so people with a hearing impairment know they are there?
Modern combustion engines can also make little or no discernible sound above tire noise at slow speeds. I’ve personally startled hundreds of people for this very reason. The claim that electric vehicles are uniquely dangerous where and how road vehicles are typically encountered by pedestrians is a myth.

For anywhere but areas with ideal climate, the short-term answer to EV's is a hybrid of some sort. Current electric-only vehicles aren't going to perform as expected where there is heavy air-conditioner demand any more than they will in areas of extreme cold in winter. Having an internal combustion "assist" available to extend range is essential in those areas.
I live where highs of 100F and above are common and electric vehicles do just fine here.

A friend of mine had the regular 12 Volt Battery die in her 2017 Prius,. The Service Manager @ the Toyota Dealer where she bought it, told her under no circumstances try to "jump" start the car. It had to be towed to the dealer ( covered by AAA)and a New 84 Month " Prius 12 Volt Battery" ( her Warranty didnt cover this)plus reprogramming her Smart Key cost her $389!!! Sounds excessive to me, does anyone with a Prius have any info on this???
What part of the battery troubleshooting process involves calling the dealership for permission to jump? I'm not a fan of the Prius but they're not so delicate that they need to be towed everywhere. I think this result is down to the dealer being scummy and the owner being an easy mark.
 
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AGM.12

Train Attendant
Joined
Jan 3, 2018
Messages
76
My concern with electric vehicles is that, once the use of them is widespread, when many people plug in to recharge at one time, would the power grid be able to handle the load without constant brownouts?
 

drdumont

Service Attendant
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Apr 16, 2017
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Re AGM.12's concern about recharging EVs causing massive brownouts:

Today's power grid is a marvel of monitoring and control. Load sharing, distribution and management systems take care of the constantly varying demand caused by weather, even sporting events.
The solar power industry is progressing with new technology and efficiency, and many folks take advantage of this where they can, to charge their vehicles with no impact upon the public grid. Solar power is saved in battery banks for use on demand - usually at night when many folks do their nightly recharge.
There are Tesla Superchargers which use massive solar arrays on the roof to reduce load on "the Grid".
The "EV caused brownout" is more FUD postulated by the EV haters.
There is always a tradeoff. Less fuel dispensers, pumps, lighting at filling stations, and so forth offset by chargers. Each little increment contributes.
How about huge long arrays of solar panels on the railroad rights of way? Maybe even atop the passenger cars to shed a little HEP power load?
I doubt there will ever be a battery powered railroad engine, but getting catenary rilroad power from hydro has been a fact for years.
Things tend to even out over time.
 

Barb Stout

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
423
A friend of mine had the regular 12 Volt Battery die in her 2017 Prius,.

The Service Manager @ the Toyota Dealer where she bought it, told her under no circumstances try to "jump" start the car.

It had to be towed to the dealer ( covered by AAA)and a New 84 Month " Prius 12 Volt Battery" ( her Warranty didnt cover this)plus reprogramming her Smart Key cost her $389!!!

Sounds excessive to me, does anyone with a Prius have any info on this???
I have a Prius. A couple of years ago I lost my key and had to get a replacement. $300. The next day I found the old one, of course. Also, in order to extend my warranty, I had to purchase a yearly maintenance contract for several hundred dollars. Then the few times that something did go wrong, oh no, the warranty doesn't cover it. So I don't get extended warranties or maintenance contracts any more.
 

Bob Dylan

Conductor
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
19,972
I have a Prius. A couple of years ago I lost my key and had to get a replacement. $300. The next day I found the old one, of course. Also, in order to extend my warranty, I had to purchase a yearly maintenance contract for several hundred dollars. Then the few times that something did go wrong, oh no, the warranty doesn't cover it. So I don't get extended warranties or maintenance contracts any more.
This seems to be standard practice for most "extended warranties" which are really another way for salespersons and companies to increase their profit!
 

PVD

Conductor
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Jul 8, 2015
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Long or extended warranties exist primarily for 2 reasons. They may be highly profitable items to add on a sale, or a tool to get people to buy something they might not otherwise. When Hyundai first hit the US market large scale, they had a bad reputation for reliability. Even though they were cheap, people were reluctant to buy because of repairs. They did 2 things, one was working hard to improve quality, and the other was provide a 10 year 100K mile warranty. If you bought one of their cars you didn't sweat as much about repairs. It worked, over time they drastically improved the quality, and the warranty is now 5 years/60k which is still somewhat higher than industry standard, but way less than the original. And they aren't so cheap anymore.
 

railiner

Conductor
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
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I wouldn't ever consider getting an extended warranty. I make my new purchases, partly on the researched reliability of the product I am buying. The standard warranty is good enough to cover any defects that immediately appear, and once the warranty expires, if you performed all required preventive maintenance, your product should last you a long time.
My 2010 Prius came with a 3 year bumper to bumper warranty, and a 5 year power train and corrosion warranty. The hybrid components have an 8 year warranty, and the hybrid battery a ten year warranty, now.
My car, which will be 11 years old in November, is as reliable as the day I brought it home.

The money you save each year, by not buying an extended warranty, will more than likely more than cover whatever repairs become necessary at the car ages, until it has served its useful life. In a sense, this is like being "self-insured".
 
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