Emergency brake pulled

[ne52]

Hi!

I'm currently on 192 NE Regional going north from DC. As we pulled out of BWI, we stopped very suddenly a few hundred yards past the platform. We were still accelerating so it was abrupt but nothing major to throw you out of your seat. The only other time it has felt as sudden was when I was on a train that hit a deer and they were unsure whether it was a person. Coincidentally this was once when we were pulling into BWI. We were traveling too slow for that to be the case this time.

Apparently, a passenger had pulled the emergency brake which they announced over the PA. They were not sure who had done it. The brakes were refilled with air, the crew performed a brake test, and we continued on after 20 minutes. APD spoke with the conductor on the platform at BAL, took notes, and left. As far as I can tell there were no passengers removed and it looked like not much 'investigation' done to find out who had pulled it.

What's the protocol in a situation like this? Had it been a weekday, I'm sure this would've affected the schedules more and had we been at higher speed, someone could have been seriously injured. Was it possible that someone pulled it when they boarded and it engaged when we pulled out? I would have assumed pulling the emergency brake would cause a bigger ordeal but it really was minor in the scheme of possible delays.

 

[zephyr17]

I was on a train that went into emergency at about 70 mph (air line broke, but they thought someone pulled the emergency brake at first). Rough, quick stop, but it wasn't enough to throw most people off their feet.

 

[jis]

When we hit a trespasser on 129 the other day the train was put in emergency at about 100mph. It was a quick stop but nothing tocause anyone any injury.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I was on the Heartland Flyer about a year and a half ago when we "Big Holed" south of Norman. We were on our way after about 10 minutes and the Conductor told me someone coming out of the Handicap toilet on the lower level tripped and lunged forward. By a million to one chance the thing he grabbed to break his fall was the part of the brake cord that hangs below the safety glass. But since it was a pure accident, no one got in any trouble.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

I was on the the Texas eagle back in May 2008 doing the full route CHI-LAX on 421 when outside of SAS we hit a SUV that went around the gates. We were going slow since we were coming up to the station so nothing noticeable with the E_brake app other than the woosh when they dump the air. Both occupants of the SUV survived i was later told on my return on SWC 4. Going to the STL gathering In October 2010 again was on the texas eagle sharing a room with shanghai. We were not even outside of the station yet when the air hose got snagged on a switch and broke. That one was more noticeable and caused the roomette door to slam shut. I got video of it.

 

[Edgefan]

Two instances instantly come to mind for me on this topic. My wife and I were on the California Zephyr #6 in September of 2007. A cement truck decided to proceed across the tracks into a quarry at Rifle, Colorado. I know the engineer had already sounded his approach warning and he put the train into emergency stop. My wife and I were traveling coach that particular trip and the overstuffed overhead bins dropped belongings everywhere. The unlucky few that were standing/walking went down. We did not hit the cement truck and the engineer has to be commended here. (I wrote Amtrak a word of thanks) The conductor went over to the offices of the quarry with his large black book. After much discussion between the conductor and whoever the authority of the quarry was, the conductor handed him somthing out of his large black book. We were then informed that it would be some time before we could proceed as they had to do a brake check, which was a good twenty minutes. The second time was in May of 2009 when a "visitor" had entered the Empire Builder #8 at Columbus, Wisconsin. I assume it was to help with bags and see the acquaintance off. Apparently the visitor lingered too long and was on board when we pulled out. I do know an announcement was made that the train was departing. We went only a few hundred yards and came to an abrupt stop. The conductor flew through our sleeping car cussing under her breath. We were told after a few minutes that a "visitor" had pulled the emergency brake and we would be delayed until the brakes could be tested. Again, it was a good twenty minutes. I do not know what the outcome for our visitor was. (I really didn't want to ask!)

 

[NW cannonball]

November 2011 on AMTK 7 east of Marias Pass - air hose separated at grade crossing - speed 79 mph notch 5 300 amps (according to conductor ) delay was short considering all crew had to do was walk and inspect both sides (quarter mile of train times both sides) then replace small air hose segment - then walk train again, air test brakes - away we went. Less than half hour total delay.

The emergency brake stop was not dramatic - nobody thrown from seats or fell down in the aisles - my roomette door closed sliding slowly forward.

I'm thinking that emergency brake stops are unlikely - but as anyone can see from the reports here - do happen - but not scary for passengers. Delay usually not much unless cause was grade crossing collision or trespasser (even less likely).

 

[AlanB]

Was it possible that someone pulled it when they boarded and it engaged when we pulled out?

No!

The train would not have been able to leave the station if someone had done that. Once you pull that cord, the loss of air to the brakes is essentially instantaneous. The handle would have to be reset, and the air brake pressure recharged before that train could have turned a wheel.

 

[MattW]

I wonder if the different experiences are due to different locations of the trainline break. As in, would a break near the front of the train, with the propagation delay, cause the "unbraked" cars behind to run up against the front cars due to slack action?

 

[AlanB]

I wonder if the different experiences are due to different locations of the trainline break. As in, would a break near the front of the train, with the propagation delay, cause the "unbraked" cars behind to run up against the front cars due to slack action?

You might start to see/feel that if you were riding on the Auto Train, but otherwise that's really only a problem for freight trains. Amtrak trains are so short that generally it takes only a couple of seconds for the discharge of air to propagate through the entire train.

 

[oldtimer]

I wonder if the different experiences are due to different locations of the trainline break. As in, would a break near the front of the train, with the propagation delay, cause the "unbraked" cars behind to run up against the front cars due to slack action?

You might start to see/feel that if you were riding on the Auto Train, but otherwise that's really only a problem for freight trains. Amtrak trains are so short that generally it takes only a couple of seconds for the discharge of air to propagate through the entire train.

The air brake system on Amtrak cars has a valve that as soon as a significant reduction in brake pipe pressure (no normal air brake applications from the engineer) that will also dump the air in that car and thus accelerates the application in that car and so on all the way through the consist.

oldtimer aka Al

 

[railiner]

One bad effect of an emergency stop from full track speed is often flat spots forming on locked, sliding wheels. This can be quite costly to repair......

 

[xyzzy]

I was serving on the safety crew for a Southern steam excursion returning from Chattanooga to Atlanta circa 1980 when a passenger dumped the air as a prank. Unfortunately engine 4501 developed a problem because of the abrupt stop. It had to be run ahead at walking speed to a siding to clear the main, and then the single FP7 that had been trailing 4501 pulled the 20-car train at speeds of 10-30 mph -- all the FP7 could manage -- to Forrestville Yard in Rome where two freight engines were added. Not only was 4501 out of action for a while, but also the traction motors of the FP7 had to be replaced. Expensive repairs, we were 4 hours late into Atlanta, and one of Southern's busiest freight lines was tied up...

 

[Guest]

Aren't you suppose to pull that cord, when you want the train to stop at the next station? Like on the city bus when you want it to stop at the next corner. :giggle:

 

[railiner]

Aren't you suppose to pull that cord, when you want the train to stop at the next station? Like on the city bus when you want it to stop at the next corner. :giggle:

Yes, but only if the next station is a flag stop.....and then you have to pull the correct cord...the one that tweets in the engine cab, not the brake line.....

 

[EMDF9A]

My emergency stop story is from #11 the southbound Coast Starlight. It was about 6-7 years ago, and it was in the winter... I dont exactly remember the month. We were climbing Cascade Crossing between Eugene and KFalls. It was after dinner as I was in the PPC having a brandy. There was snow on the ground and the reflection into the darkend car was BEAUTFUL.

A young man I'd say about 12-13 pulled the emergency brake. He had been watching old cartoons on his video player and saw one depicting dumping the air... so he thought he would see if it was like the cartoon. We were climbing the pass so we werent going too fast but the train came to a ver quick stop. There was a lot of "bump bump bump" and initially I thought we had derailed. Fortunately that was not the case. The unfortunate thing about this incident was that we were on the up grade in a snow storm and they could not get enough traction from the P42s to get us moving again on the slippery rail. UP had to send a freight engine up the pass from KFalls to give us enough traction to get moving. That whole process took over 3 hours and really tied up the line for a while!

I dont know what happened to the young man or his parents but BOY was one of the nicest conductors I know awfully steamed that night!

David

Seattle

 

[ne52]

so this sounds like it's rare but not unheard of. aside from being stupid, i always assumed there were serious consequences involved in this. njt, marc, mta, and other agencies have placard next to it with a warning of criminal offence and monetary penalty.

is it up to the conductor whether to have the passenger removed/detained?

 

[chakk]

Similar story to Edgefan. Riding in coach on #6 we went into emergency a few miles west of Grand Junction when a cement truck had been stalled on the tracks. The trucker got it moving in time to clear the track -- breaking through the crossing gates in the process. We were delayed 20 minutes while the A/C walked the train. Meanwhile, the engineered telephoned the Colorado police on his cell phone to alert them to the broken highway gates and to provide the name of the company that runs the cement plnat from which the truck was leaving. I don't recall any injuries, but some drinks in the lounge car might have spilled.

 

[oldtimer]

One bad effect of an emergency stop from full track speed is often flat spots forming on locked, sliding wheels. This can be quite costly to repair......

Railiner; Amtrak passenger cars are equipped with an anti-slide wheel system that can detect a sliding wheel and release the brakes on that axle. Very similar to the automobile antilock system. The auto releases the brakes on an individual wheel while rail systems release the axle's brakes.

oldtimer aka Al

 

[VentureForth]

On the Texas Eagle way back in 1999ish, I recall on our trip from Chicago to Mineola that somewhere in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas (arguably the most scenic part of the TE route that no one hardly ever gets to see because both ways are in the dark), someone allegedly put a spare tire between the rails on the track. When the train passed over it, it knocked the airbrake off, putting us into emergency. Same ol' story - 20 minutes to walk the train, attach hoses, test brakes, and we were on our way again.

 

[railiner]

One bad effect of an emergency stop from full track speed is often flat spots forming on locked, sliding wheels. This can be quite costly to repair......

Railiner; Amtrak passenger cars are equipped with an anti-slide wheel system that can detect a sliding wheel and release the brakes on that axle. Very similar to the automobile antilock system. The auto releases the brakes on an individual wheel while rail systems release the axle's brakes.

oldtimer aka Al

I have heard that, but have you ever ridden a train car with a flat spot(s)? Perhaps the anti-slide mechanism was defective, or something else caused the flat spot, but it is very annoying to passengers.

 

[NW cannonball]

A significant flat spot is I think usually fixed fairly soon on passenger equipment - but yes annoying to ride on.

Unfortunately, a "portable" wheel lathe (google it) is too heavy to carry in carry-on or checked baggage (5-15 tons) but wheel lathe availability fairly widespread.

(the fixed location ones can turn all 6 axles on a road engine in less than a half hour but can't be moved because they weigh 30-70 tons)

Based on current info - the flat spots on passenger car wheels with anti-lock don't happen right away, but later as possibly overheated sections of the rim (tyre) start to spall and lose hardened bits.

Just sayin.

 

[BCL]

One bad effect of an emergency stop from full track speed is often flat spots forming on locked, sliding wheels. This can be quite costly to repair......

Railiner; Amtrak passenger cars are equipped with an anti-slide wheel system that can detect a sliding wheel and release the brakes on that axle. Very similar to the automobile antilock system. The auto releases the brakes on an individual wheel while rail systems release the axle's brakes.

oldtimer aka Al

I have heard that, but have you ever ridden a train car with a flat spot(s)? Perhaps the anti-slide mechanism was defective, or something else caused the flat spot, but it is very annoying to passengers.

I found a photo of one online. Apparently dragged about 12 miles with the wheels locked to a point where a crane could lift it.

http://www.railpage.com.au/image_resize/YToyOntzOjM6InVybCI7czo2MDoiaHR0cDovL2kzMjEucGhvdG9idWNrZXQuY29tL2FsYnVtcy9ubjM3MC9FeHBvc3QvcGhvbmUwMTguanBnIjtzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtpOjUwMDt9

I was standing near a brake handle today and asked a conductor how much trouble it would cause if it were pulled. He didn't say anything about flat spots, but said it could cause expensive damage to the rails. But it's so cool when you see it in movies and the sparks start flying.

 

[RampWidget]

I wonder if the different experiences are due to different locations of the trainline break. As in, would a break near the front of the train, with the propagation delay, cause the "unbraked" cars behind to run up against the front cars due to slack action?

Passenger equipment uses what are called "tightlock" couplers, which greatly minimize the slack between the cars as compared to a freight train.

Passenger trains are so light that they don't need the slack in the train to slowly get it moving one or a few cars at a time as does a freight train.

You can check this out for yourself by watching a freight train start moving from a standstill, then make the same observation with a passenger train.

Edit: typo, as usual

 

[X]

One bad effect of an emergency stop from full track speed is often flat spots forming on locked, sliding wheels. This can be quite costly to repair......

Railiner; Amtrak passenger cars are equipped with an anti-slide wheel system that can detect a sliding wheel and release the brakes on that axle. Very similar to the automobile antilock system. The auto releases the brakes on an individual wheel while rail systems release the axle's brakes.

oldtimer aka Al

I was under the impression that wheel slip was not active when in emergency, at least on the E7 Decelostats here out west.

I'll have to look into that, I guess.