Empire Service - SOLD OUT Train

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

JoshP

Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Messages
184
Location
Buffalo, NY
This what I found on Facebook today:

Today, November 28, 2021, was the first day in the history of the Empire Corridor that every train, both departing and arriving New York City, was completely sold out. In the past, all northbounds were often sold out on the day before Thanksgiving and all southbounds sold out the Sunday after Thanksgiving, but today is the first day ever that BOTH directions were sold out - every seat, every train.

No wonder, I wasn't able to buy ticket yesterday, so I managed to get one today!
 

jis

Chief Dispatcher
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
30,472
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
You would also need a few engines. The P32AC-DM can only provide HEP to seven cars.
Are the Empire Service trains already operating with 7 cars? I thought at present they were running with 5 cars, but of course I could be wrong.

Then again it is upto NY State as to how many cars they want to pay for. Afterall it is their baby.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
6,056
Location
NYC/Queens
I disagree with the comment about the P32-DM . When the Lake was running out of NYP with a cross platform transfer of the Boston folks, It left Penn with 3 sleepers, Cafe, Diner, and 3 coaches. As far as I recall it can output 800 KW which can definitely power more than 7 cars. I know the LIRR DMs have some HEP issues, but that is a different loco.
 

JoshP

Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Messages
184
Location
Buffalo, NY
My friend confirmed me during holidays recently, all Empire Service ran 7 coaches instead of normal 5 so it's just special. LSL had 5 coach, 4 sleepers, cafe and diner plus the BOS section attached, ran 3 locos. Remember, its holiday special, same normal.
 

jis

Chief Dispatcher
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
30,472
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
I disagree with the comment about the P32-DM . When the Lake was running out of NYP with a cross platform transfer of the Boston folks, It left Penn with 3 sleepers, Cafe, Diner, and 3 coaches. As far as I recall it can output 800 KW which can definitely power more than 7 cars. I know the LIRR DMs have some HEP issues, but that is a different loco.
While I do know that the DMs have the same HEP alternator as the 40/42s, and so they at least theoretically may be able to provide HEP similar to 40/42 under diesel mode, I am not sure what it can do under third rail power. My MNRR friends tell me that they can provide HEP for upto 10 Shoreliners, I am willing to believe that Amfleets have a higher per car electric load and therefore a few fewer could be supported.

I can't find an actual number quoted anywhere for what the HEP capacity of a DM is under electric mode.

It would be nice if someone could find actual numbers instead of depending on "my friend told me so" etc. like we all seem to be indulging in here at present.

BTW, we do know that 800kW can power 16 Superliner cars.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
6,056
Location
NYC/Queens
It is spec'd as a GMG 195a-1 which is 800kw rated. I am not sure what it does when on 3rd rail power, but it isn't on it very long. It is a close relative to the 195 which is in the 40/42, and is the same model used in the Dash 8s. I have been on LSL trains going up the Hudson pulling both the NY and Boston sections, they were certainly above the number of cars mentioned a few posts back Of course, the bag doesn't really matter much for HEP, but it is weight. Despite the limited HP of a single P32 providing HEP, it still makes and hold reqd speed, just longer getting to it. Of course, that is pretty flat terrain.
 

jis

Chief Dispatcher
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
30,472
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
@PVD, I agree. I have been on an LSL with 8 cars + baggage pulled by a single ACDM (and for that matter a single even lesse powere FL9 before that ;) ), so I don't believe that 7 number. But it is not worth spending my HEP energy arguing about it, since it is what it is and will remain so no matter what people argue about here. :D
 

neroden

Engineer
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
9,213
Location
Ithaca, NY
The HEP on Empire Service goes out repeatedly on the Penn Station approach, which is the only place they currently run on third rail, *anyway*, so I don't think the amount of HEP they can get while running on third rail is a limitation of any sort. Nobody really cares if the HEP is out for those few blocks.

(Though they are apparently planning to use more third rail running and less diesel when they get the new Siemens locos, according to what the specs indicate.)
 

JP1822

Train Attendant
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
60
My friend confirmed me during holidays recently, all Empire Service ran 7 coaches instead of normal 5 so it's just special. LSL had 5 coach, 4 sleepers, cafe and diner plus the BOS section attached, ran 3 locos. Remember, its holiday special, same normal.
Wait a minute - is that right? During Thanksgiving Holiday period The LSL operated with 4 (FOUR) sleepers PLUS the Boston section, which would have another sleeper, brining the sleeper count to 5 (FIVE) and the coach count to 7 (SEVEN) for the LSL train consist? I saw no LSL consists listed with extra sleepers. There was to be an extra coach on the NYC based section, but I can't provide confirmation. I mean the LSL should be operating with 5 (FIVE) Viewliner Sleepers, but it has fallen woefully short of that.......
 

JoshP

Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Messages
184
Location
Buffalo, NY
Wait a minute - is that right? During Thanksgiving Holiday period The LSL operated with 4 (FOUR) sleepers PLUS the Boston section, which would have another sleeper, brining the sleeper count to 5 (FIVE) and the coach count to 7 (SEVEN) for the LSL train consist? I saw no LSL consists listed with extra sleepers. There was to be an extra coach on the NYC based section, but I can't provide confirmation. I mean the LSL should be operating with 5 (FIVE) Viewliner Sleepers, but it has fallen woefully short of that.......
That was day after thanksgiving then it went back normal. it has been like that for years.
 

RebelRider

Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 20, 2018
Messages
149
Location
America's Railroad
Now this is where a few Amfleet Is, pilfered from the NEC, which is apparently having difficulty filling trains, could earn their keeps better. 😬
Have you been on a Regional train lately? They are packed as well. Certainly no difficulty filling the seats from my perspective.
 

jis

Chief Dispatcher
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
30,472
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Have you been on a Regional train lately? They are packed as well. Certainly no difficulty filling the seats from my perspective.
Of course not. I would not dream of traveling a thousand miles just to ride a frickin' Regional :D I am just quoting impressions I get reading sh*t here :D
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
6,056
Location
NYC/Queens
Something to keep in mind there is no practical way to fly NYC to Albany. And certain times of year the train is a pleasure compared to driving to points West of Albany. Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo do have reasonable flight schedules, but certain times of year, that's no picnic.
 

JP1822

Train Attendant
Joined
Mar 8, 2019
Messages
60
Have you been on a Regional train lately? They are packed as well. Certainly no difficulty filling the seats from my perspective.
Then why is Amtrak STILL not running their full set of Acela Express train sets and even some complimentary Regionals that were taken off the NEC pre-COVID? Some Regionals on the NEC and some Acelas on the NEC are filling up, but we are still not back to a pre-COVID NEC train schedule, particularly with Acelas. Some Acela train sets that are parked could help the Regionals, or "release" Amfleet I's for "other trains" off the corridor IF Amtrak wanted to do this.
 

AmtrakBlue

Engineer
Gathering Team Member
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
13,411
Location
Delaware
Then why is Amtrak STILL not running their full set of Acela Express train sets and even some complimentary Regionals that were taken off the NEC pre-COVID? Some Regionals on the NEC and some Acelas on the NEC are filling up, but we are still not back to a pre-COVID NEC train schedule, particularly with Acelas. Some Acela train sets that are parked could help the Regionals, or "release" Amfleet I's for "other trains" off the corridor IF Amtrak wanted to do this.
I believe the trains that are side lined are the rush hour trains. Has business travel resumed?
 

Abe26

Train Attendant
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
48
This what I found on Facebook today:

Today, November 28, 2021, was the first day in the history of the Empire Corridor that every train, both departing and arriving New York City, was completely sold out. In the past, all northbounds were often sold out on the day before Thanksgiving and all southbounds sold out the Sunday after Thanksgiving, but today is the first day ever that BOTH directions were sold out - every seat, every train.

No wonder, I wasn't able to buy ticket yesterday, so I managed to get one today!
On Nov 23 and 24 they were also 98% sold out on all trains, not sure why they don't add more trains.

And why don't they have Cafe services on all the trains? The Cafe car is already there. It's a big disappointment
 

jis

Chief Dispatcher
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
30,472
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
On Nov 23 and 24 they were also 98% sold out on all trains, not sure why they don't add more trains.
It is a service paid for by NYSDOT. Amtrak runs only as many trains as NYSDOT wants to pay for.
And why don't they have Cafe services on all the trains? The Cafe car is already there. It's a big disappointment
ESPA has been trying to convince NYSDOT to come up with the money to restore food service on the NYP-ALB trains, but unfortunately that has not come to pass yet.

As you can see, it is all about money and who comes up with it. In this case it is all NYSDOT's baby.
 

Abe26

Train Attendant
Joined
Sep 9, 2019
Messages
48
It is a service paid for by NYSDOT. Amtrak runs only as many trains as NYSDOT wants to pay for.

ESPA has been trying to convince NYSDOT to come up with the money to restore food service on the NYP-ALB trains, but unfortunately that has not come to pass yet.

As you can see, it is all about money and who comes up with it. In this case it is all NYSDOT's baby.
on the NYP-ALB route, the cafe in my opinion a money making opportunity, it’s only 2 1/2 hour and when there is actually open the cafe on that route , it’s most of the time full
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
2,422
Location
USA
And why don't they have Cafe services on all the trains? The Cafe car is already there. It's a big disappointment
Not sure operating convenience equals service levels. If you find this a big disappointment, your going to have a lot of disappointment with Amtrak.

It is a service paid for by NYSDOT. Amtrak runs only as many trains as NYSDOT wants to pay for.

ESPA has been trying to convince NYSDOT to come up with the money to restore food service on the NYP-ALB trains, but unfortunately that has not come to pass yet.

As you can see, it is all about money and who comes up with it. In this case it is all NYSDOT's baby.
NYSDOT did come up with the money. Well the last Governor did. The start of service was early 2020. Some weird event called a pandemic delay it.

on the NYP-ALB route, the cafe in my opinion a money making opportunity, it’s only 2 1/2 hour and when there is actually open the cafe on that route , it’s most of the time full
Not sure how you figured travel time and open time equals profit. But yes keeping a cafe car open from starting to ending point would be helpful to money making.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2021
Messages
10
Location
Near Philadelphia
I agree. There should be some kind of food service on all NYP to Albany trains.
I also do not understand why this route is not fully electrified. This would allow single seat service on all stops between Washington, DC and Albany, NY. I guess it is all about money, but I had hoped that the recent Federal Stimulus package would have set aside funds for full electrification of this route.
 
Top