Ethan Allen Express extension, thinking about it

[ParanoidAndroid]

So I've heard of the Ethan Allen Express being extended up to Burlington VT. What would the schedule be?

Assuming a minimum of 2 hours from Burlington to Rutland, excluding turning the train around at Rutland, that still involves a departure before 6am on the weekdays, with only Saturday getting around 9am and Sunday at 3pm. Coming back, Burlington would get a civilized arrival time of around 11pm, while the Friday run would get there at 1am on Saturday morning.

Thinking about this made another idea pop up in my mind, while looking around on Google Earth: Why not run a train from Bellows Falls VT to Burlington and back? Stops would be at Chester VT and Ludlow VT, with the Ludlow stop serving a big ski resort in the winter. Looking at the tracks superficially, they at least seem to be runnable. While there is very limited storage space in Bellows Falls, at least it's there. Assuming 2 hours from Rutland to Bellows Falls, maybe . . .

Burlington 5:30am

Rutland 7:45am/8:00am

Albany 10:50am/11:10am

New York 1:45pm ONLY ON WEEKDAYS

and

Burlington 8:10am

Rutland 10:10am Ethan Allen Express 11:10am Sat or 5:05pm Sun

Bellows Falls 12:10pm/12:45pm Vermonter 12:30pm

Rutland 2:45pm/3:00pm, or sit in Bellows Falls for 4 hours

Bellows Falls 5:00pm/6:00pm Vermonter 5:26pm

Rutland 8:00pm

Burlington 10:00pm DAILY

and

New York 3:15pm

Albany 5:45pm/6:00pm

Rutland 8:48/9:00pm

Burlington 11:15pm ONLY SUN-THURS, Friday (Rutland at 11:18pm) & Saturday runs end in Rutland.

So for Mon-Thurs, Burlington sends out 2 trains (To New York and Bellows Falls), and gets 2 trains back.

On Friday, Burlington sends out 2, gets back 1 (from Bellows Falls), while the other one ends in Rutland.

On Saturday, Burlington sends out its only 1, gets back 1, while Rutland sends out its only 1 and gets back 1.

On Sunday, Burlington sends out 1, gets back 2 for Monday morning, while Rutland sends out 1 and gets back none.

With this schedule, equipment running is good, while schedules are also good, and service to Ludlow is provided, given that there is enough funding and all the track is runnable.

 

[keelhauled]

There is no funding. End of story.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I'm having a bit of difficulty following your route turns since you smashed them into one group.

So, I'm taking a stab when I say that there seems to be a crew issue. Typically, this route is staffed out of ALB. If I'm reading this correctly, you want a train to arrive in Burlington and 10:00pm daily and 11:15pm Mon-Thurs. Then, you want a train to leave at 5:30am and 8:10am. Assuming first in, first out what time will the crew that takes the 5:30am sign up in ALB the day before, because they certainly don't have the federally required 8 hours off between runs. I'm not sure who's positioning/servicing the equipment at the outlying point, but unless you're hiring a special crew, the road crew will need to wye the train. That will eat up hours of service and I'm thinking they may run out. Will you establish another crew base? How much will this cost? Are there lodging facilities close to Burlington because transportation to said facilities is limbo time and doesn't count as rest.

Additionally, now you're servicing the trains at two locations. That is additional expenses...which naturally assuming there are facilities to even carry out inspections in Burlington.

If you clarify your ALB times for each couplet, it would help the cause...unless you're adding sign up points and intend to "one way" everyone...which seems expensive.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

OK. Always the same with Amtrak and the government

 

[the_traveler]

Per OP's request, 2 threads were combined.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Thank you. I think I pressed post while it was processing my previous request to post, so it posted twice.

 

[Eric S]

OK. Always the same with Amtrak and the government

Huh? Wouldn't some of these same concerns exist if you were proposing an intercity bus schedule or airline flight as well? Or privately-operated intercity rail service?

 

[afigg]

So I've heard of the Ethan Allen Express being extended up to Burlington VT. What would the schedule be?

Assuming a minimum of 2 hours from Burlington to Rutland, excluding turning the train around at Rutland, that still involves a departure before 6am on the weekdays, with only Saturday getting around 9am and Sunday at 3pm. Coming back, Burlington would get a civilized arrival time of around 11pm, while the Friday run would get there at 1am on Saturday morning.

Thinking about this made another idea pop up in my mind, while looking around on Google Earth: Why not run a train from Bellows Falls VT to Burlington and back? Stops would be at Chester VT and Ludlow VT, with the Ludlow stop serving a big ski resort in the winter. Looking at the tracks superficially, they at least seem to be runnable. While there is very limited storage space in Bellows Falls, at least it's there. Assuming 2 hours from Rutland to Bellows Falls, maybe . . .

Pulling up a draft of the VT State Rail Plan, the extension from Rutland to Burlington is 67.7 track miles. The tracks are being replaced or restored to 60 mph Class III speeds for passenger trains. With one or two stops between Rutland and Burlington, if the average speed over the extension is 45 mph, it will add roughly 90 minutes to the trip time.

The Burlington extension is not likely to start until 2020 from recent reports, so there is a lot of time to figure out the schedule. The track improvements in New York from from Albany to Schenectady and the improvements at the ALB and SCH stations should result in reduced trip times for the Ethan Allen over that segment long before 2020. New York may find funding for track improvements north of SCH for the Adirondack service that could be in place or starting work on by the time VT is ready to extend the Ethan Allen to Burlington. So the Ethan Allen may be able to have a circa 7 AM departure from Burlington and not get to NYP not that much later than the current schedule.

As for a intra-state Burlington to Bellows Falls service, that train would likely require substantial operating subsidies, setting aside the cost of track upgrades and starting up the services. The interest in VT is supporting trips to and from the major population centers: NYC, Montreal, the entire north-east corridor. The odds of the state even considering such a service are low.

 

[neroden]

The Burlington extension is not likely to start until 2020 from recent reports, so there is a lot of time to figure out the schedule

For reference, the delays are due to the Middlebury tunnel and the Middlebury station. The tunnel absolutely has to be be done before the extension can operate, and the station really should be done. Pretty much all the other needed upgrades along the line have been done or will be done very soon, but that tunnel eneds to be done.

 

[west point]

Can someone explain the problems with the Middlebury tunnel ?

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

290 Mon-Fri 292 Sat 296 Sun

Burlington 7:00am 10:10am 4:05pm

Rutland 8:45am 11:55am 5:50pm

Albany 11:35am/11:55am 2:40pm/2:55pm 8:40pm/9:00pm *Track work will make this earlier

New York 2:30pm 5:30pm 11:35pm *Track work will make this earlier

291 Sat-Thurs 293 Fri

New York 3:00pm 5:00pm *Track work will make this later

Albany 5:30pm/5:45pm 7:35pm/7:45pm *Track work will make this later

Rutland 8:35pm 10:35pm

Burlington 10:20pm 12:20am Sat

I know I'm stubborn but, maybe Rutland-Bellows Falls-Springfield-New Haven?

Rutland 9:15am Mon-Fri 12:15pm

Bellows Falls 11:00am 2:00pm

Springfield 1:00pm 4:00pm

New Haven 2:25pm,

(No cleaning)

New Haven 2:50pm Sat-Thurs

Springfield 4:15pm

Bellows Falls 6:15pm

Rutland 8:05pm??

??

I don't know, maybe route it to Boston, or New Haven from Springfield.

 

[Thirdrail7]

290 Mon-Fri 292 Sat 296 Sun

Burlington 7:00am 10:10am 4:05pm

Rutland 8:45am 11:55am 5:50pm

Albany 11:35am/11:55am 2:40pm/2:55pm 8:40pm/9:00pm *Track work will make this earlier

New York 2:30pm 5:30pm 11:35pm *Track work will make this earlier

291 Sat-Thurs 293 Fri

New York 3:00pm 5:00pm *Track work will make this later

Albany 5:30pm/5:45pm 7:35pm/7:45pm *Track work will make this later

Rutland 8:35pm 10:35pm

Burlington 10:20pm 12:20am Sat

I know I'm stubborn but, maybe Rutland-Bellows Falls-Springfield-New Haven?

Rutland 9:15am Mon-Fri 12:15pm

Bellows Falls 11:00am 2:00pm

Springfield 1:00pm 4:00pm

New Haven 2:25pm,

(No cleaning)

New Haven 2:50pm Sat-Thurs

Springfield 4:15pm

Bellows Falls 6:15pm

Rutland 8:05pm??

??

I don't know, maybe route it to Boston, or New Haven from Springfield.

Thank you for the clarification. Unfortunately, there is indeed a problem for a crew perspective if your couplet is 291-ND290. You have not allowed for sign off time or If the inbound crew has to wye the train upon arrival. There is also sign up time in the morning. You do not have enough time between runs. Even if you respite the crew, you run the risk of the crew running out of time if the train stubs its toe. This is particularly true if the inbound crew has to wye/service or position the train.

You'd need to move up the arrival time or push back the departure time. I doubt Metro-North will surrender another slot, so you'll have to use existing slots.

 

[neroden]

Can someone explain the problems with the Middlebury tunnel ?

State page for the project:

http://vtrans.vermont.gov/projects/middlebury/middlebury-bridge-rail-project-faqs

Here's the town's project page:

http://www.townofmiddlebury.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={F31A2E6D-D5EA-41C7-9A0B-A3338BE0F967}&DE={E207645F-F33A-4E8E-BD4B-837F0D9CAE48}

There's some absolutely ridiculous NIMBY opposition, and the state is being extremely accomodating:

https://vtdigger.org/2015/07/28/middlebury-pushes-back-against-55-million-rail-project/

The state decided they had to do a full EIS in order to rebut the NIMBYs, which is causing the delay in construction:

http://www.theprogressnews.com/news/state/vermont-to-study-possible-risks-of-middlebury-rail-tunnel/article_858442e3-b910-50ae-b3b4-2193727dd9af.html

We know what the EIS will say because this has been studied to death already. It'll say that the NIMBYs don't have a leg to stand on, that the state's plan is the best available plan, and that no significant mitigation is necessary. Then they can finally get started on construction.