Extended stop in TX

[IRfan]

Just to be clear only two active revenue cars change trains, one sleeper and one coach. Those two cars are referred to as train 421 (heading South and West from Chicago to Los Angeles) or train 422 (heading East and North from Los Angeles to Chicago). The transfer of these two cars is handled at Sunset Station in San Antonio. There are also two protect cars stored on a third house track in case the inbound train is running too late for the outbound train to wait.

 

[bratkinson]

If you want to go from NOL to LAX in a through car, be sure you are booked on a coach or sleeper on Train #1. (Train # 2 in the eastbound direction)

A minor point of clarification...ALL cars originating in NOL as train #1 a 'through' cars. None of them are dropped enroute. No 'be sure' is necessary, as it's impossible to be booked on #422 from NOL since only train #1 goes NOL to LAX. The 2 cars of 'train' #421 are added at SAS.

Traveling LAX to NOL, you'll be booked on train #2. All of train #2 cars go to NOL. At SAS, the last 2 cars, aka Train #422, are dropped at SAS and added to #22 which originates at SAS using the same trainset that #21 arrived with the prior evening.

However....just to throw a monkey wrench into the works.... Sometimes there's no space left on #2 from LAX to NOL. But there's space available on train #422 to SAS (and on to Chicago). So, the savvy traveler would book space on #422 LAX to SAS, and then physically change trains (eg, move to a different car forward of the last 2 cars comprising #422) during the layover at SAS and board #2 there to get to NOL. To avoid being rousted in the middle of the night to get off #422 at SAS, I'd check availability from ELP to NOL, and change cars at ELP in daylight. It should be noted that the Amtrak computer does NOT offer a train #422 with 'switch cars' to #2 option. It has to be booked as two separate segments LAX to <wherever at or before SAS> and a second segment SAS (or wherever you want to move to another car) to NOL. When I rode #2/422 in April, I noticed a significant number of roomettes emptied at Maricopa (Phoenix), so booking LAX->MRC on #422 and MRC->NOL on #2 would provide an earlier in the day change than ELP or ALP.

 

[PaulM]

If one books CHI-LAX, they will be booked in train #421. That's the only option presented.

Actually if you try to book CHI-LAX on a day that 421 runs, you are presented with 6 options, some better than others:

1. 421
2. 3
3. 21 changing to 1 in San Antonio
4. 21 to 421 changing in Ft. Worth
5. 5 changing in Sacramento to 704 changing in Bakersfield to 5804 (bus)
6. 27 to 11 changing in Portland.

Back in the good ole days of AGR 1.0, I enjoyed No. 6. I wouldn't do No. 5 for free.

 

[ehbowen]

Actually if you try to book CHI-LAX on a day that 421 runs, you are presented with 6 options, some better than others:

1. 421
2. 3
3. 21 changing to 1 in San Antonio
4. 21 to 421 changing in Ft. Worth
5. 5 changing in Sacramento to 704 changing in Bakersfield to 5804 (bus)
6. 27 to 11 changing in Portland.

Back in the good ole days of AGR 1.0, I enjoyed No. 6. I wouldn't do No. 5 for free.

If my primary goal was just to get to Los Angeles, I'd choose option 2 in a heartbeat.

Edit To Add: Back in the good old days of AGR 1.0, when my objective was riding the route of the Southwest Chief for the first time, I experimented with a NOL-LAX booking on a day the Sunset Limited didn't run. The resulting itinerary became the core of what I modestly referred to as "Railfan Madness, Part 1."

 

[Rasputin]

6. 27 to 11 changing in Portland.

Back in the good ole days of AGR 1.0, I enjoyed No. 6.

Yes, option 6 was a great trip under the old guest rewards zone system. I did the trip once and then, after learning that the zone system was being discontinued, I made another trip before the system ended.

 

[bratkinson]

Actually if you try to book CHI-LAX on a day that 421 runs, you are presented with 6 options, some better than others:

1. 421
2. 3
3. 21 changing to 1 in San Antonio
4. 21 to 421 changing in Ft. Worth
5. 5 changing in Sacramento to 704 changing in Bakersfield to 5804 (bus)
6. 27 to 11 changing in Portland.

Back in the good ole days of AGR 1.0, I enjoyed No. 6. I wouldn't do No. 5 for free.

I'm stunned that the Amtrak website offers option #3. Upon arrival at SAS, everyone on train #21 must leave the train except those in the last 2 cars, eg, train #421. While it might be possible to immediately board one of the rear #421 cars, I wouldn't count on it as the entire crew leaves the train there and based on my own observations, do so quickly once all the passengers are off. OBS crew goes to the hotel about a block away for the night. The 'new' sleeping car attendant for #421 may or may not be there yet. As a result, the passenger(s) would end up killing time in the station until boarding time, typically 10 minutes or so prior to departure.

On the other hand, as I noted in my previous post, it's possible that a passenger boarding in DAL, for example, encountered 'sold out' in the #421 section and so booked train #21 to SAS after which space was available on #421 (or even #1) from SAS to LAX or any intermediate stop between the two.

 

[Rasputin]

Out of curiosity I did a price comparison for a hypothetical trip from Tucson to New Orleans in March 2020. For one senior travelling in a bedroom, the cost in a through sleeper (train 2) was $1,673. However if you traveled between Tucson and San Antonio in the 422 sleeper and transferred to a train 2 sleeper at San Antonio, the cost was $1331. So you would lose sleep by making the transfer at San Antonio but you would save $340 (which you could then blow at the Casino in New Orleans).

 

[bratkinson]

Out of curiosity I did a price comparison for a hypothetical trip from Tucson to New Orleans in March 2020. For one senior travelling in a bedroom, the cost in a through sleeper (train 2) was $1,673. However if you traveled between Tucson and San Antonio in the 422 sleeper and transferred to a train 2 sleeper at San Antonio, the cost was $1331. So you would lose sleep by making the transfer at San Antonio but you would save $340 (which you could then blow at the Casino in New Orleans).

You found one of the interesting 'oddities' of the Amtrak ticketing system. As the computer doesn't 'know' that train #2 and #422 are physically attached LAX-SAS and treats them completely independently from each other for the entire length of their routes. As a result, prices on one train may increase based on 'demand' faster than the other. A couple of times I've looked at prices on #21 vs #421 from CHI to SAS, and sometimes see $100 or more 'difference' for a roomette on the same 'connected' train.

Living in Massachusetts, I consistently book coach or BC from Springfield to Albany, and then move to a New York section roomette in Albany after the New York and Boston sections of the train are joined. The price for a roomette in the Boston section (tr #449) is usually more than $100 higher than the New York section (tr #49) roomette because there's only 1 Boston sleeper (no BOS sleeper this summer on non-bus days, though, due to CSX trackwork) vs 2 from New York. Each section is treated as separate trains although they are joined together ALB->CHI.

In short, it pays to check out all the options from A to B. Amsnag is a fantastic way to find the best prices from A to B. Last fall, I discovered that PDX to CHI via #11 to LAX and #422 to CHI in a roomette cost less than #28 or #11/#6, so I grabbed it using AGR points. I then 'filled in' the rest of my annual vacation (I'm retired) joyride using Amsnag almost daily and ended up with a 9,429 mile trip with only 2 segments paid by credit card as I had used a bunch of points last fall.

 

[dogbert617]

I went to Dennys in a pack of 7 or 8 people from the train. I felt ok on my own but I was glad the single women joined the group and didnt try it on their own. They probably would have been fine but safer is better.

Good you all did walk in a group, to be safer. You do for sure, never know about safety late in night in other cities. I'm sure in a worst case scenario, those women could've booked an Uber or Lyft, if noone else would've walked with them. Though I would've volunteered to walk with them, if I was on that train just to make sure they were okay getting over there and back!

You found one of the interesting 'oddities' of the Amtrak ticketing system. As the computer doesn't 'know' that train #2 and #422 are physically attached LAX-SAS and treats them completely independently from each other for the entire length of their routes. As a result, prices on one train may increase based on 'demand' faster than the other. A couple of times I've looked at prices on #21 vs #421 from CHI to SAS, and sometimes see $100 or more 'difference' for a roomette on the same 'connected' train.

Living in Massachusetts, I consistently book coach or BC from Springfield to Albany, and then move to a New York section roomette in Albany after the New York and Boston sections of the train are joined. The price for a roomette in the Boston section (tr #449) is usually more than $100 higher than the New York section (tr #49) roomette because there's only 1 Boston sleeper (no BOS sleeper this summer on non-bus days, though, due to CSX trackwork) vs 2 from New York. Each section is treated as separate trains although they are joined together ALB->CHI.

In short, it pays to check out all the options from A to B. Amsnag is a fantastic way to find the best prices from A to B. Last fall, I discovered that PDX to CHI via #11 to LAX and #422 to CHI in a roomette cost less than #28 or #11/#6, so I grabbed it using AGR points. I then 'filled in' the rest of my annual vacation (I'm retired) joyride using Amsnag almost daily and ended up with a 9,429 mile trip with only 2 segments paid by credit card as I had used a bunch of points last fall.

If you try to book the Empire Builder between Chicago to Spokane, you see the same situation with trains 8 and 28, and 7 and 27 respectively(7 and 8 to Seattle, 27 and 28 to Portland). Different fares, since those cars go to different destinations. I suspect that's why one will see different fares for trains 1 and 421, and 2 and 422 respectively on the combined Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited between San Antonio and LA.

 

[Lindsay W]

Ok I think this may apply to me. I'm on SSL not TE, but are you saying it stops for 5 hours? Is that way before the SSL meets up with it? Or is the SSL a long wait also?

The Texas Eagle stops in San Antonio for 2:10 going east/north, and 4:50 going west now.

 

[dogbert617]

Current schedule(assuming you're taking #1 and #2) is for #1 going west, Sunset arrives in San Antonio(IF on time) at 12:05am, and departs at 2:45am(2 hour and 40 mins stop). For #2(going east) IF on time, the train arrives at 4:50am, and departs at 6:25am(1 hour and 35 mins stop). Hope this timetable helps, to resolve any confusions you have about SL's regular schedule providing this train is on time for your trip. But as you're riding on a freight railroad line and you never know with delays, fingers crossed you don't run into too many delays if any at all! Anyway: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...timetables/Sunset-Limited-Schedule-031118.pdf

 

[ehbowen]

Yes, do keep in mind that if the Sunset is late arriving in San Antonio...from either direction...that station dwell time will be reduced as much as possible (consistent with getting the switch moves completed) in order to attempt to get the train back on time.

 

[dogbert617]

Yes, do keep in mind that if the Sunset is late arriving in San Antonio...from either direction...that station dwell time will be reduced as much as possible (consistent with getting the switch moves completed) in order to attempt to get the train back on time.

Yep, I know. I was doing the emphasis on the part that this schedule is IF(and a VERY BIG if), the Sunset Limited is on time. And as we all know, there's always the chance it'll run late somewhere due to an oncoming freight train pushing the SL to a side track and delaying it, or passing another Amtrak SL en route.

I'm stunned that the Amtrak website offers option #3. Upon arrival at SAS, everyone on train #21 must leave the train except those in the last 2 cars, eg, train #421. While it might be possible to immediately board one of the rear #421 cars, I wouldn't count on it as the entire crew leaves the train there and based on my own observations, do so quickly once all the passengers are off. OBS crew goes to the hotel about a block away for the night. The 'new' sleeping car attendant for #421 may or may not be there yet. As a result, the passenger(s) would end up killing time in the station until boarding time, typically 10 minutes or so prior to departure.

On the other hand, as I noted in my previous post, it's possible that a passenger boarding in DAL, for example, encountered 'sold out' in the #421 section and so booked train #21 to SAS after which space was available on #421 (or even #1) from SAS to LAX or any intermediate stop between the two.

Not sure why transferring from #21 to #1(or #22 to #2 going east) is shown as an option, when for sure I think 99.9% of passengers would prefer to stay in the same train car(#421 or #422, west and east respectively) if they are riding both the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle(and not going on the route of Sunset between San Antonio and New Orleans) during the combining and splitting(depending on direction) of these 2 trains in San Antonio.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

Yep, I know. I was doing the emphasis on the part that this schedule is IF(and a VERY BIG if), the Sunset Limited is on time. And as we all know, there's always the chance it'll run late somewhere due to an oncoming freight train pushing the SL to a side track and delaying it, or passing another Amtrak SL en route.



Not sure why transferring from #21 to #1(or #22 to #2 going east) is shown as an option, when for sure I think 99.9% of passengers would prefer to stay in the same train car(#421 or #422, west and east respectively) if they are riding both the Sunset Limited and Texas Eagle(and not going on the route of Sunset between San Antonio and New Orleans) during the combining and splitting(depending on direction) of these 2 trains in San Antonio.

My thought would be is its offered in case 421/422 sell out or are selling at a higher price bucket than 21/1 or 2/22. With only one coach and the sleeper going on this gives more capacity for people to continue on their desired route. I agree that having to make the switch isn’t ideal, but I also know a number of people bail out of their car (granted they can leave their luggage on board) during the switching and go see San Antonio for a few hours. Of course I’d bet this happens on 421/21/1 more than the eastbound train due to timing.

Btw, 1 was 30 minutes EARLY into SAS last night and the TE has been running fairly on time the last few days, color me shocked!!

 

[dogbert617]

My thought would be is its offered in case 421/422 sell out or are selling at a higher price bucket than 21/1 or 2/22. With only one coach and the sleeper going on this gives more capacity for people to continue on their desired route. I agree that having to make the switch isn’t ideal, but I also know a number of people bail out of their car (granted they can leave their luggage on board) during the switching and go see San Antonio for a few hours. Of course I’d bet this happens on 421/21/1 more than the eastbound train due to timing.

Btw, 1 was 30 minutes EARLY into SAS last night and the TE has been running fairly on time the last few days, color me shocked!!

Ah, gotcha. Yeah that would make sense to still offer switching from 21 to 1 or 22 to 2(and vice versa) as an option in San Antonio for passengers to do, in case 421 or 422 entirely sell out.

Also, I remember years ago looking at the on time status for the Sunset Limited, and very often seeing lengthy delays for this train. Good to see Sunset is running a lot more on time nowadays, vs. years ago(5-10 years?) when I saw delays occurred a lot more often, with this train! No wonder back when Sunset ran east of New Orleans pre-Katrina with all the delays back then, that they scheduled train #2 to have a 6 hour layover in New Orleans(from 4:30pm to 10:30pm), before it went on to places like Mobile, Pensacola, Tallahassee, etc. before it finally hit Orlando.

 

[F900ElCapitan]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah that would make sense to still offer switching from 21 to 1 or 22 to 2(and vice versa) as an option in San Antonio for passengers to do, in case 421 or 422 entirely sell out.

Also, I remember years ago looking at the on time status for the Sunset Limited, and very often seeing lengthy delays for this train. Good to see Sunset is running a lot more on time nowadays, vs. years ago(5-10 years?) when I saw delays occurred a lot more often, with this train! No wonder back when Sunset ran east of New Orleans pre-Katrina with all the delays back then, that they scheduled train #2 to have a 6 hour layover in New Orleans(from 4:30pm to 10:30pm), before it went on to places like Mobile, Pensacola, Tallahassee, etc. before it finally hit Orlando.

Yep, I think it says a lot about UP in a couple of ways. One, their expansion of the ROW between El Paso and Southern California, and two, the shift of traffic off the Sunset Route and onto the old Texas & Pacific towards Fort Worth.

 

[dogbert617]

Yep, I think it says a lot about UP in a couple of ways. One, their expansion of the ROW between El Paso and Southern California, and two, the shift of traffic off the Sunset Route and onto the old Texas & Pacific towards Fort Worth.

I'm glad Union Pacific did work, to fix those 2 issues in regards to allowing the Sunset Limited to have fewer delays. Now if only this train could once again directly serve Phoenix, like it used to until sometime in the 1990s.

 

[Lindsay W]

Ok so 2h40m or less, not bad. I don't understand what the 2:10 and 4:50 meant in the post I replied to. I thought 2h10m on the way and 4h50m in the way back? But you're saying no sir I'll go with you lol.

Current schedule(assuming you're taking #1 and #2) is for #1 going west, Sunset arrives in San Antonio(IF on time) at 12:05am, and departs at 2:45am(2 hour and 40 mins stop). For #2(going east) IF on time, the train arrives at 4:50am, and departs at 6:25am(1 hour and 35 mins stop). Hope this timetable helps, to resolve any confusions you have about SL's regular schedule providing this train is on time for your trip. But as you're riding on a freight railroad line and you never know with delays, fingers crossed you don't run into too many delays if any at all! Anyway: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...timetables/Sunset-Limited-Schedule-031118.pdf