FRA's Corridor ID Program and possible new routes

[George Harris]

class 3 ideally class 4 track, PTC maybe some CTC in a few sections is 1-2m per mile and freight gets to move a lot faster. sure beats building roads

Reality check: It is far more than just setting a maximum speed limit. It is dealing with slower spots due to alignment or other restrictions. Case in point: The NS line between Atlanta and Birmingham, 165 miles, has never had a train scheduled for less than four hours despite having a 79 mph maximum speed limit. If otherwise unconstrained, the distance could be run in 2.5 to 2.75 hours end to end including the stop in Anniston. However, due to near continuous curves having 40 to 60 mph limits, to go for anything less than 4 hours is not practical.

 

[jis]

Reality check: It is far more than just setting a maximum speed limit. It is dealing with slower spots due to alignment or other restrictions. Case in point: The NS line between Atlanta and Birmingham, 165 miles, has never had a train scheduled for less than four hours despite having a 79 mph maximum speed limit. If otherwise unconstrained, the distance could be run in 2.5 to 2.75 hours end to end including the stop in Anniston. However, due to near continuous curves having 40 to 60 mph limits, to go for anything less than 4 hours is not practical.

In the context of what was being discussed regarding providing service to little towns, when you throw in frequent stops in every little hamlet on the way, things get even worse, since you hardly ever get to the MPS unless proper equipment with proper performance is used. A giant hulking diesel engines with a bunch of heavy cars in tow does not cut it usually..

 

[MisterUptempo]

------------NEW ADDITIONS TO EXPRESSIONS OF INTEREST AS OF DECEMBER 29. 2022----------------

56) Mid-America Regional Council (MARC) - (Kansas City Metro Area)

Expressing support for the northern extension of Amtrak's Heartland Flyer to Newton, KS. MARC includes the extension in its Connected KC 2050 plan, which they envision facilitating rail service between Kansas City and Oklahoma City.

57) Minnesota Department of Transportation

Expression of Interest as part of a .pdf file my system cannot open. If anyone else can open it, please post the content and I'll add it in here. Thanks.

ETA- Thanks to Metra Electric Rider, the MNDOT PDF revealed the following routes -

1. Northern Lights Express corridor.
2. MSP - MKE - CHI (TCMC) Corridor
a) MSP-ST Paul
b) route via Madison
c) route via Eau Claire
3. MSP - Des Moines to KC, MO
4. CHI via MSP to Seattle (North Coast Hiawatha Corridor)
5. MSP to Sioux Falls, SD
6. MSP to Sioux City, IA

58) Regional Economic Area Partnership (REAP) - Northern Flyer Alliance

Requesting the inclusion of the northern extension of the Heartland Flyer into the Corridor ID program.

59) Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation

Expression of Interest for the proposed Commonwealth Corridor, which would connect the Hampton Roads/Tidewater area to Richmond, Charlottesville, and Southwest Virginia by rail.

60) North Carolina Department of Transportation

In addition to the joint EOI filed with Virginia DOT for new Washington, DC to Charlotte, NC service , and a joint EOI with Georgia and South Carolina DOTs for a new Charlotte to Atlanta corridor, NC DOT requests the inclusion of the following corridors, which will serve to enhance their current state-supported rail service-

-Salisbury to Asheville
-Wilmington, NC to Raleigh
-Charlotte to Kings Mountain, NC
-Greenville, NC to Raleigh
-Winston-Salem to Raleigh
-Hamlet, NC to Raleigh
-Morehead City, NC to Raleigh
-Fayetteville, NC to Raleigh
-Winston-Salem to Charlotte


61) RideTheRail.org

A rail advocacy group expressing interest and support for a new rail corridor connecting Chicago, IL to Dubuque and Waterloo, IA, with an eventual extension of the route to Mason City, IA, Owatonna and St. Paul, MN.

Claims the MPO for Dubuque, IA, ecia.org, will be submitting an Expression of Interest. Also claims that IDOT completed an new study of the proposed route in 2022, but I have yet to locate it.

62) Texans Against High-Speed Rail

More like an Expression of Disinterest. "Boondoggle"...argle-bargle...

============================================================

The Corridor ID Program has taken the next step forward. On December 20, 2022, the FRA posted on the Federal Register the details for the actual application process into Corridor ID.

Applications must be submitted by March 20, 2023.

Here is a PDF version of the Federal Register posting, for anyone who wishes to download it.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

57) Minnesota Department of Transportation

Expression of Interest as part of a .pdf file my system cannot open. If anyone else can open it, please post the content and I'll add it in here. Thanks.

61) RideTheRail.org

A rail advocacy group expressing interest and support for a new rail corridor connecting Chicago, IL to Dubuque and Waterloo, IA, with an eventual extension of the route to Mason City, IA, Owatonna and St. Paul, MN.

Claims the MPO for Dubuque, IA, ecia.org, will be submitting an Expression of Interest. Also claims that IDOT completed an new study of the proposed route in 2022, but I have yet to locate it.

62) Texans Against High-Speed Rail

More like an Expression of Disinterest. "Boondoggle"...argle-bargle...

If you have a link I'll try and open it.

News that there was a new IDOT study (unless the I was for the state without/that doesn't have 102 counties)!

LOL @ Argle-bargle, will have to use that one...

 

[MisterUptempo]

If you have a link I'll try and open it.

News that there was a new IDOT study (unless the I was for the state without/that doesn't have 102 counties)!

LOL @ Argle-bargle, will have to use that one...

Here is the link to the MNDOT PDF-

https://downloads.regulations.gov/FRA-2022-0031-0083/attachment_1.pdf

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Here is the link to the MNDOT PDF-

https://downloads.regulations.gov/FRA-2022-0031-0083/attachment_1.pdf

Opened no problem: here's the Cliff Notes version....

1. Northern Lights Express corridor.
2. MSP - MKE - CHI (TCMC) Corridor
a) MSP-ST Paul
b) route via Madison
c) route via Eau Claire
3. MSP - Des Moines to KC, MO
4. CHI via MSP to Seattle (North Coast Hiawatha Corridor)
5. MSP to Sioux Falls, SD
6. MSP to Sioux Falls, IA

 

[MisterUptempo]

Opened no problem: here's the Cliff Notes version....

1. Northern Lights Express corridor.
2. MSP - MKE - CHI (TCMC) Corridor
a) MSP-ST Paul
b) route via Madison
c) route via Eau Claire
3. MSP - Des Moines to KC, MO
4. CHI via MSP to Seattle (North Coast Hiawatha Corridor)
5. MSP to Sioux Falls, SD
6. MSP to Sioux Falls, IA

Many thanks!

 

[TransitTyrant]

The Texans Against High Speed Rail posting a comment is actually funny and strong commitment to the bit.

 

[WICT106]

No route to Winnipeg

Opened no problem: here's the Cliff Notes version....

1. Northern Lights Express corridor.
2. MSP - MKE - CHI (TCMC) Corridor
a) MSP-ST Paul
b) route via Madison
c) route via Eau Claire
3. MSP - Des Moines to KC, MO
4. CHI via MSP to Seattle (North Coast Hiawatha Corridor)
5. MSP to Sioux Falls, SD
6. MSP to Sioux Falls, IA

 

[MisterUptempo]

News that there was a new IDOT study (unless the I was for the state without/that doesn't have 102 counties)!

OK....so I found the study, and it was issued by Illinois DOT, way back in May, 2022, located on the site for the East Central Intergovernmental Agency (ecia.org), which represents five eastern Iowa counties, based in Dubuque.

Here's a link to the homepage for ECIA's passenger rail feasibility study.

Here's a link to the PDF of the study.

The purpose of the study is to restart the process of extending Chicago - Rockford service all the way to Dubuque, which was the planned final destination when IDOT initially attempted to revive the Blackhawk. Nothing about extending to Waterloo or onto MSP.

Three route alternatives were studied, and, as expected, the CN from Rockford to Portage, BNSF to East Dubuque, CN to Dubuque was the preferred alternative. Same as it was the last time they studied it.

Two daily round trips.

Primary stations at Dubuque, Galena, Freeport, and Rockford. Potential secondary stations at East Dubuque, Warren, Lena, and Winnebago.

It was determined a max speed of 79mph made the most sense, as increasing the speed to 90mph would have entailed an increase of 36-38% in capital costs, while only yielding a reduction of six route minutes total.

Capital costs for the selected alternative are estimated to be between $282 and $381 million.

 

[west point]

Notice something the other day. There seems to be a very few North - South routes. The Amtrak map should have a Colorado front rang route from Mexican border to at least Cheyene or north Then a Galveston - MSP route. Also a Detroit area directly to Florida thru ATL.

 

[MisterUptempo]

------------NEW ADDITIONS TO EXPRESSIONS OF INTEREST AS OF DECEMBER 30. 2022----------------

The FRA posted a few more EOI's before year's end.

63) Mayors of Nashville & Chattanooga, TN, and Atlanta & Savannah, GA

An Expression of Interest for a rail corridor connecting Nashville, TN, Chattanooga, TN, Atlanta, GA, and Savannah, GA, called the Sunbelt-Atlantic Connector.

64) Mayors of Green Bay, Appleton, Kaukauna, Neenah, Oshkosh, and Menasha, WI, and the City Manager of Fond du Lac, WI

A joint letter in support of an extension of Amtrak's Hiawatha from its current terminus at Milwaukee to Green Bay.

65) Tennessee Department of Transportation

While not an Expression of Interest for a specific new rail corridor, TDOT wanted to relay to the FRA there is great interest in Tennessee for new rail service, and that the Tennessee Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations (TACIR) is currently in the middle of a study "on the potential for passenger rail service linking the major cities in each of the grand divisions of the state".

Study completion expected by July 1, 2023.

 

[Anthony V]

OK....so I found the study, and it was issued by Illinois DOT, way back in May, 2022, located on the site for the East Central Intergovernmental Agency (ecia.org), which represents five eastern Iowa counties, based in Dubuque.

Here's a link to the homepage for ECIA's passenger rail feasibility study.

Here's a link to the PDF of the study.

The purpose of the study is to restart the process of extending Chicago - Rockford service all the way to Dubuque, which was the planned final destination when IDOT initially attempted to revive the Blackhawk. Nothing about extending to Waterloo or onto MSP.

Three route alternatives were studied, and, as expected, the CN from Rockford to Portage, BNSF to East Dubuque, CN to Dubuque was the preferred alternative. Same as it was the last time they studied it.

Two daily round trips.

Primary stations at Dubuque, Galena, Freeport, and Rockford. Potential secondary stations at East Dubuque, Warren, Lena, and Winnebago.

It was determined a max speed of 79mph made the most sense, as increasing the speed to 90mph would have entailed an increase of 36-38% in capital costs, while only yielding a reduction of six route minutes total.

Capital costs for the selected alternative are estimated to be between $282 and $381 million.

When the Black Hawk was still running in the 70's and early 80's, if it had had two daily round trips, I believe that it would still be running today because it would've allowed Chicagoans to take day trips to Galena, creating a second major travel market for the service beyond just day trips to Chicago from Rockford and Dubuque.

 

[JoeBas]

62) Texans Against High-Speed Rail

More like an Expression of Disinterest. "Boondoggle"...argle-bargle...

More of a Foofaraw, TBH...

 

[GDRRiley]

Reality check: It is far more than just setting a maximum speed limit. It is dealing with slower spots due to alignment or other restrictions. Case in point: The NS line between Atlanta and Birmingham, 165 miles, has never had a train scheduled for less than four hours despite having a 79 mph maximum speed limit. If otherwise unconstrained, the distance could be run in 2.5 to 2.75 hours end to end including the stop in Anniston. However, due to near continuous curves having 40 to 60 mph limits, to go for anything less than 4 hours is not practical.

Yes you need to address the slowest parts but doing so is not always easy. Califorina was looking at track realigment north of San Luis Obispo as part of increase service to reduce travel times and the local NIMBYs got pissed at the idea railroad tracks would move less than 200ft in places.

 

[Free Jaffa]

Hey do we have a final count / list of FRA corridor ID submissions?
there’s a lack of clear lists of applicants that made the deadlin.

 

[NES28]

Historically, FRA has treated grant applications as classified information. These are somewhat unique so it's possible that they might treat them differently.

 

[jis]

Hey do we have a final count / list of FRA corridor ID submissions?
there’s a lack of clear lists of applicants that made the deadlin.

Be aware though that Corridor Id is not a funding program. It s a Congressionally chartered Study. The only output of it will be a report to Congress based on which Congress may decide what to do next.

Thsi post upon reflection is confusing. Correcting this I would like to state that the Corridor ID program is closely linked with IIJA and is separate from the FRA LD Study which is also launched by IIJA but with a different focus.

 

[Anderson]

Be aware though that Corridor Id is not a funding program. It s a Congressionally chartered Study. The only output of it will be a report to Congress based on which Congress may decide what to do next.

Yes, though IIRC there's also a decent pile of cash available to at least start working on a few corridors (which would presumably at least be prioritized based on this report - especially since some already have study work done on them).

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Historically, FRA has treated grant applications as classified information. These are somewhat unique so it's possible that they might treat them differently.

To add to what JIS and others said about, we're not at the grant application stage yet, but at the point of expression of interest if I'm reading the information correctly.

 

[joelkfla]

Be aware though that Corridor Id is not a funding program. It s a Congressionally chartered Study. The only output of it will be a report to Congress based on which Congress may decide what to do next.

Historically, FRA has treated grant applications as classified information. These are somewhat unique so it's possible that they might treat them differently.

If it's a report to Congress (and not national security related), wouldn't it need to be made public?

 

[jis]

If it's a report to Congress (and not national security related), wouldn't it need to be made public?

Of course the report will be a public document. I think it is due in another 6 months or so. It is a relatively short fuse item. The IIJA funding distribution depends on this activity according to:

Corridor Identification and Development Program | FRA

Overview:  The Corridor Identification and Development (Corridor ID) Program is a comprehensive intercity passenger rail planning and development program that will help guide intercity passenger rail development throughout the country and create a pipeline of intercity passenger rail projects...

railroads.dot.gov

I was getting this program and the LD Study program, both being run by the FRA incorrectly confused with each other.

 

[TransitTyrant]

Be aware though that Corridor Id is not a funding program. It s a Congressionally chartered Study. The only output of it will be a report to Congress based on which Congress may decide what to do next.

Well that and there’s 12 billion dollars available for those potential corridors. There’d be a lot less interest if there was no money attached.

 

[TransitTyrant]

Another thing that seems to engender some confusion... Projects that are already in the pipeline continue on their time line irrespective of what is in the output of this Study. Of course it is likely that those are in the output of the study, but they don't have to be.

At present there is no funding budget line that is explicitly tied to the result of this study. After Congress gets the results it is very likely that future funding lines would be tied to this study results.

Then again, there is no LD train in a funded pipeline at present AFAIK, though Amtrak seems to be making a few preliminary moves on the I-20 Corridor and even on the North Coast Hiawatha.

Of course FRA could choose to use the output of the Study to provide it guidance on which projects to fund out of already appropriated money that it has been sitting on. The fact that the House Transportation Chair is supportive of passenger rail as I learned at the RPA meeting in off the record conversations gives me confidence that at least no money will be rescinded and possibly appropriations will work our tight but OK.

As an aside, RPA has a Routes and Schedules Committee which has produced a prioritized list of 28 proposed LD routes. RPA made a formal submission of its own using the top ten from the list.

Then what will the 12 billion dollars in off NEC expansions be spent on if not new corridor routes?

 

[ascii42]

Be aware though that Corridor Id is not a funding program. It s a Congressionally chartered Study. The only output of it will be a report to Congress based on which Congress may decide what to do next.

Isn't it what this NOFO is about? Federal Register :: Request Access