Gateway Project/New York Penn Station capacity Improvement

[Andrew]

The East River Tunnel Rehab Project is starting to see some motion:

Amtrak Launches Procurement for East River Tunnel Renewal - Railway Track and Structures

Amtrak has begun the procurement phase of the East River Tunnel Rehabilitation Project by issuing a Request for Qualifications for construction services to replace two of the tunnel's four tubes.

www.rtands.com

Perhaps this will increase ridership into Grand Central?

 

[Andrew]

This past May, The GDC announced that three project delivery partners have been announced to eventually assist with construction of The Gateway Program.

They are a joint venture of Bechtel and HNTB;

Hudson Delivery Partnership (Atkins North America, Arup US. Inc and The McKissack Group) and

MPA Delivery Partners (Parsons Transportation Group of NY, Arcadis of NY and Mace North America Limited)

Anyone willing to predict which Delivery partner will win the RFP?

 

[jis]

Anyone willing to predict which Delivery partner will win the RFP?

Do we know for sure that there will be exactly one RFP, and that the big project will not be broken up into chunks of work governed by separate RFPs?

 

[Andrew]

Do we know for sure that there will be exactly one RFP, and that the big project will not be broken up into chunks of work governed by separate RFPs?

The RFP I mentioned is only for The Hudson Tunnel Project (which runs from just east of Secaucus to 12th Avenue in Manhattan)

 

[jis]

Rail News - Amtrak Portal North project is 25% completed. For Railroad Career Professionals

www.progressiverailroading.com

 

[west point]

Rail News - Amtrak Portal North project is 25% completed. For Railroad Career Professionals

www.progressiverailroading.com

25% complete? Find it hard to believe 2027 for completion. Maybe being very cautious looking for unanticipated items.?

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

The short video referenced in the article is worth watching

 

[jis]

Work begins on the Hudson Tubes....

Hudson River rail tunnel project starts … again - Trains

Following a 13-year delay, construction will begin in October on the initial steps leading to a new rail tunnel under the Hudson River.

www.trains.com

 

[jis]

Oy vey. Here we go with the wondrous NJT Management...

NJ Transit fires manager of new Portal Bridge construction, part of Gateway tunnel project

The old Portal Bridge and rail tunnels under the Hudson are the same age and a choke point along the Northeast Corridor that can cause delays into NYC

www.northjersey.com

 

[Amtrak25]

"escorted out of the agency's Newark headquarters by police."

is a pretty hostile firing. I've seen it happen in my old Fortune 500 employer a few times, and it is quite personal with someone above orchestrating it.

"These concerns, Nasim said, were ignored and on one occasion at a meeting where he raised them, he was told to "shut up" by an NJ Transit peer. " - goes to show the inept, juvenile characters that are running NJT. This reminds one of choosing up sides at junior high school gym class.

 

[west point]

Settlement issues? That can be a very big deal. Could it be that NJ Transit and whoever is not with NJT did not want Amtrak informed about the settlement problems? If present Portal bridge gets out of alignment??

 

[jis]

Settlement issues? That can be a very big deal. Could it be that NJ Transit and whoever is not with NJT did not want Amtrak informed about the settlement problems? If present Portal bridge gets out of alignment??

It is NJT. In my experience if there is even a remote way to muck it up they will, and then some. They have always been the inverse Midas touch run by every possible incompetence under one roof I used to live there on the M&E Line walking distance to Short Hills, so I have a bit of experience with them.

 

[Amtrak25]

Settlement issues? That can be a very big deal. Could it be that NJ Transit and whoever is not with NJT did not want Amtrak informed about the settlement problems? If present Portal bridge gets out of alignment??

I think it is about rocking the boat, making waves, and letting cat out of the bag. The "shut up" comment says it all.

 

[jis]

I think it is about rocking the boat, making waves, and letting cat out of the bag. The "shut up" comment says it all.

In the coming days if they have to restrict travel across the Portal Bridge due to subsidence or shifting it would be useful to remind them that they sort of knew about it if only they could get their heads out of dark places and listen to experts. I just hope that it does not come to that.

 

[John Santos]

In the coming days if they have to restrict travel across the Portal Bridge due to subsidence or shifting it would be useful to remind them that they sort of knew about it if only they could get their heads out of dark places and listen to experts. I just hope that it does not come to that.

If settling of the old bridge causes an accident, and NJT knew about it and didn't inform anyone, that could be criminal. Anyone in the know at NJT should be talking to a lawyer about whistleblower protection to save themselves from jail time. A coverup always makes things worse.

 

[Andrew]

The Gateway Development Commission has shortlisted five teams to construct the Palisades Tunnel.
They are :

FKC-Tutor Perini-Hyundai, a Joint Venture:
Frontier-KemperConstructors,Inc.
TutorPeriniCorporation
Hyundai America Inc.

Gateway Tunnel Contractors:
Halmar International, LLC
FCC ConstructionInc.

Shea-Kiewit Tunnel Constructors:
J.F. Shea Construction Inc.
Kiewit Infrastructure Co.

Schiavone OHLA Ghella JV:
Schiavone Construction Co. LLC
OHLA USA, Inc.
Ghella USA Corp.

Walsh / Skanska / Traylor JV:
Walsh Construction Company II, LLC
Skanska USA Civil Northeast Inc.
TraylorBros. Inc.

Anyone want to predict which joint venture is likely to win this contract?

 

[UncleJeff]

... I tend to lean towards the single level approach that can standardize the Amtrak fleet...

I think NYC's restarted Gateway Project is going to yield 19' vertical clearance, which will allow Amtrak to standardize on two-level cars

 

[jis]

I think NYC's restarted Gateway Project is going to yield 19' vertical clearance, which will allow Amtrak to standardize on two-level cars

No. The new tunnels after installation of catenary, will not be able to host 16' tall cars. Amtrak has categorically stated so several times, and yet people keep talking about this. Also once they go through the tunnel where are they going to go in Penn station which does not have the clearance anyway? How will they get to the tunnel through Newark Penn Station?

 

[alanh]

No. The new tunnels after installation of catenary, will not be able to host 16' tall cars. Amtrak has categorically stated so several times, and yet people keep talking about this. Also once they go through the tunnel where are they going to go in Penn station which does not have the clearance anyway?

They're also going to refurb the existing tunnels once traffic moves to the new tunnels. When refurbished they'll be reopened to traffic. They'd have to track which train could use which tunnel.

 

[UncleJeff]

No. The new tunnels after installation of catenary, will not be able to host 16' tall cars. Amtrak has categorically stated so several times, and yet people keep talking about this. Also once they go through the tunnel where are they going to go in Penn station which does not have the clearance anyway?

When I saw reports of the project restart, I spent half a day looking for the new tunnels dimensions. My Google-fu failed me, because I wasn't able to turn up anything except a 2017 Gateway "Fourth Plan" that said at least one tunnel should be tall enough to handle double-stacked containers (21' clearance).

The Gateway Program's own description mentioned only that some avenue overpass would be raised to create 19' clearance on an approach to the tunnels. I inferred (apparently incorrectly), that spending money to raise the overpass clearance meant that a tunnel would be at least as tall (but I've never been able to think like a government project). It also includes an expansion to Penn Station.

Looking again, I find an Amtrak Hudson River Tunnel "Preferred Alternative" planning doc from 2021 specifying inner diameter of 25'. That would be plenty of room for a double-height (16' 2") passenger car.

Was an inferior alternative approved instead? Where is Amtrak saying that it will spend billions of dollars to build new tunnels as substandard as the old ones? I'd just like to see the bad news in writing before telling others how incompetent our government is.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

When I saw reports of the project restart, I spent half a day looking for the new tunnels dimensions. My Google-fu failed me, because I wasn't able to turn up anything except a 2017 Gateway "Fourth Plan" that said at least one tunnel should be tall enough to handle double-stacked containers (21' clearance).

The Gateway Program's own description mentioned only that some avenue overpass would be raised to create 19' clearance on an approach to the tunnels. I inferred (apparently incorrectly), that spending money to raise the overpass clearance meant that a tunnel would be at least as tall (but I've never been able to think like a government project). It also includes an expansion to Penn Station.

Looking again, I find an Amtrak Hudson River Tunnel "Preferred Alternative" planning doc from 2021 specifying inner diameter of 25'. That would be plenty of room for a double-height (16' 2") passenger car.

Was an inferior alternative approved instead? Where is Amtrak saying that it will spend billions of dollars to build new tunnels as substandard as the old ones? I'd just like to see the bad news in writing before telling others how incompetent our government is.

What will the 25' be "after installation of catenary"?

 

[jis]

Was an inferior alternative approved instead? Where is Amtrak saying that it will spend billions of dollars to build new tunnels as substandard as the old ones? I'd just like to see the bad news in writing before telling others how incompetent our government is.

We asked Amtrak's executive who came to the RPA meeting, and he said categorically that the tunnels will not be designed to allow the use of Superliners because there is no way for them to get there or get into Penn Station and modify the platforms to be low level, or standardize on multi-level cars with vestibule at 4' over TOR and hence no through walkway at the upper floor.

As for whether that single level inferior or not depends on whether one thinks that all trains being 16' tall is superior, which itself is arguable, a matter of opinion and not a revealed truth.

Actually I don't care either way. I am just reporting what was told at a meeting so you will not get anything printed from me. Of course this is their current position and that can change too. But it is more or less certain that any Superliner getting into Penn Station won't happen for 30-40 years, i.e. way beyond my lifetime

 

[alanh]

There's also a ventilation plenum that will reduce the clearance, plus the tracks will be on some sort of ties.

 

[jis]

Here is an interesting Railway Gazette International article on plans for NYC and NJ service expansion. May require subscription...

‘New York metro’ concept in updated Northeast Corridor modernisation plan

USA: Amtrak and its local and federal partners are proposing a major uplift in commuter and inter-city services between New York and New Jersey to create a 'metro-style' service offering at peak hours, subject to capacity enahncements in the Northeast Corridor being fully funded.

www.railwaygazette.com

 

[jis]

Technically the Sawtooth Bridge s also part of the Gateway Project as is the Portal Bridge too, though not part of the Gateway Tunnel Project...

Procurement launched for Sawtooth Bridge Replacement Project

The new structure will be a pair of two track structures one north of the current bridge and the other at the same location as the current bridge. Speed limit will increase from 60mph to 90mph and of course having four tracks instead of two will decongest.

The EIS can be found at:

Sawtooth River Bridge Project Environmental Assessment (EA) ...