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Gateway Project/NYP Capacity Improvement

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Andrew

Lead Service Attendant
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May 3, 2013
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472
Is it likely that the proposed 50-50 Federal/Local Split will become 40--60 to get the Fed's on board for the new hudson tunnels?
 

MARC Rider

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Well back when I was buying such cars, Mercedes W123 chassis cars were still available at reasonable prices. More modern Benzes are an entirely different ball of wax, reliability and maintenance wise, so that would be out, unless you can find a lower mileage MB 240D. It wouldn’t be under $1k but it would be way under your price range.

However I would suggest 1.9 liter VW TDI from the late 90s or early 2000s with a five speed stick (way way WAY cheaper to maintain with the manual gearbox), preferably in basic GL trim with crank windows. You can get those under $1k with less than 200k miles on them. That would be a reliable used car.

I’m not sure why you think your Honda is giving up the ghost, though.
Well, the past 2 years, I've spent $2,000 - $4,000 each year on repairs, this is in addition to fuel and insurance. The air-conditioning doesn't work anymore, and I'm really not thrilled about spending another large chunk of money to get that fixed. Sooner of later, something really major is going to come up. And the old jalopy just doesn't handle the way it used to. I mean, I've got 250k miles and 19 years wit hthis car, it's probably time to let it go.

The way I figure, any used car with 200k miles is not going to be priced under $1k unless it needs more than $1k dollars worth of repairs.
 

TWA904

Train Attendant
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Messages
47
Is it likely that the proposed 50-50 Federal/Local Split will become 40--60 to get the Fed's on board for the new hudson tunnels?
I was thinking 1/3 Federal, 1/3 NY, 1/3 NJ should get the Fed's on board for the tunnels.
 

jis

Conductor
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Jus getting rid of the current fed chieftain would get the feds on board for the tunnel. They were on board until they were taken off board by the current chief. The formula that would work was already agreed upon until for deep personal spite or something the feds reneged. Let us be aware of the history and do the right thing.
 
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Green Maned Lion

Conductor
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The way I figure, any used car with 200k miles is not going to be priced under $1k unless it needs more than $1k dollars worth of repairs.
You aren't going to get a "nice" car for under $1000. You aren't even going to get one where everything works. But that wasn't what we were talking about; we were talking about reliable. If it starts up, drives you from point A to point B, and then from point B to point A, with over a 99% certainty rate, it is reliable transportation.

I started driving in 2001 with a 1976 MB 240D that was, I suspect, more rust than steel, a worn-to-heck engine that could hit 60mph downhill with a tailwind if you really begged it, and a tendency to smoke like you wouldn't believe- but being 25 years old it was emissions exempt in NJ. It cost me $250, and I had enough proof in its service records of roll-overs on its 5-digit odometer that I know it had at least 700k miles on it, and probably more. I suspect it may have actually have been a roll over were it a 6-digit odometer, in fact.

The radio didn't work, the A/C didn't work, hell the blower for the heater didn't work. It was ugly, creaky- in a Mercedes, mind you!- it smelled, and don't ask about how vague the shift linkage was. It also started every time and drove me to school and work every day for the entire six months I owned it, even in the winter, at which point some idiot in a Honda Civic t-boned me, killing himself, and totaling my car (admittedly, a bird pooping on it would have probably totaled it). I walked away. That is safe reliable transportation, in my opinion, and it cost me $250.

I took the insurance check from his company, and some of the money I got from my job, and spent $950 on a 1982 240D. It had a number of other non-running-properly issues, including non-working a/c (if there is a pre-1990 Mercedes diesel with working A/C I would be fascinated to know about it) but it did the same basic job. You need a car to do the job of getting you to work and back, you can buy one for under $1000. If you want a nice car for under $1000, you're right, you're smoking something.
 

Andrew

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
472
Jus getting rid of the current fed chieftain would get the feds on board for the tunnel. They were on board until they were taken off board by the current chief. The formula that would work was already agreed upon until for deep personal spite or something the feds reneged. Let us be aware of the history and do the right thing.
The next Gateway Development meeting is scheduled for May 28th at 1 PM so I am curious to know what the update will be.

If Biden wins in November, I still think it is possible his USDOT will make it so that only one tube will be built with very modern emergency communications systems within the tunnel
 

Andrew

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
472
With the economy tanking, what are ways to reduce the size of the Gateway Project? Could two tubes still get built but only one tube be used for Revenue service while the other tube is only used for evacuation trains without third rail or catenary wires installed?
 

Green Maned Lion

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Given the nature of how the pandemic and the economic crash is going to kill the economy and transit use for a long time to come, the logical way to deal with this and the now equally pointless Portal Bridge project would be to ash-can it. I feel like I can predict this course of action will be taken with considerable certainty.
 

west point

Conductor
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Jun 9, 2015
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With the economy tanking, what are ways to reduce the size of the Gateway Project? Could two tubes still get built but only one tube be used for Revenue service while the other tube is only used for evacuation trains without third rail or catenary wires installed?
Very poor economics. Almost all the costs for tunnels are before track, CAT, Signaling. Would expect total costs for those no more than $50.0M ?
 

Andrew

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
472
Very poor economics. Almost all the costs for tunnels are before track, CAT, Signaling. Would expect total costs for those no more than $50.0M ?
So what do you think should be done with regards to the tunnels?
 

west point

Conductor
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
2,225
First: I believe that the old tunnel bores are very prone for a failure. Amtrak does not have appeared to installed flood gate doors for the entrances to the old tunnels ? Another "Sandy" type hurricane might flood NYP station thereby flooding the old tunnel bores.

Second: New bores will provide a safer crossing under the Hudson. Can any of us imagine what will happen if a NJT commuter train stalls at the equidistant middle of the old bores because of a fire ? There is no way to escape a fire into the other bore.. Have to walk to the NYP and NJ openings and fire stairs to surface. I do not want to hear or see the panic.

Third: Once the 2 new bores are built to modern fire standards fire evacuation and rescue can be implemented from the other new bore. That includes all trackage, Signaling,, etc. A rescue train with fire fighting capabilities including using the 3rd rail becomes very important, The standard now is a cross connection every 800 feet which will always have an 800 foot train ( 10 cars) access directly beside a stalled train

Fourth: Flood doors are included in the plans for the new Gateway bores.

Fifth: I hope Amtrak is doing ongoing repairs to the present tunnel bores while the number of trains are down traveling to / from NYP. I would hope that Amtrak is trying to do some of the work as the "L" train rehab project was done. BTW work on those tunnel bores are complete ahead of schedule..
 

Green Maned Lion

Conductor
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Messages
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NJ
Well, I see your point. However, I think it is important that you personally locate and propose to both us and the US Congress where the funding for this tunnel project will come from. I am going To guess that by the time all is said and done, and all the graft paid, about $20 billion will be required over ten years.

It’s not coming from New York- they have no money. It’s not coming from New Jersey- we have to cut $10 billion out of our budget, with painful cuts that are going to make a mess out of all kinds of things. The US Congress is is closing on a $4 trillion deficit with calls for another (Probably needed) financial aid bill to combat the looming Great Depression Part Deaux. I suspect they are going to be cutting lots of regular spending just to try to tone the red-ink bleed to a minor geyser.

So tell me, please, I want to know, where is this funding coming for a tunnel project whose effective capacity purpose isn’t needed and probably won’t be for decades?
 

MARC Rider

Conductor
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
2,242
Location
Baltimore. MD
You aren't going to get a "nice" car for under $1000. You aren't even going to get one where everything works. But that wasn't what we were talking about; we were talking about reliable. If it starts up, drives you from point A to point B, and then from point B to point A, with over a 99% certainty rate, it is reliable transportation.

I started driving in 2001 with a 1976 MB 240D that was, I suspect, more rust than steel, a worn-to-heck engine that could hit 60mph downhill with a tailwind if you really begged it, and a tendency to smoke like you wouldn't believe- but being 25 years old it was emissions exempt in NJ. It cost me $250, and I had enough proof in its service records of roll-overs on its 5-digit odometer that I know it had at least 700k miles on it, and probably more. I suspect it may have actually have been a roll over were it a 6-digit odometer, in fact.

The radio didn't work, the A/C didn't work, hell the blower for the heater didn't work. It was ugly, creaky- in a Mercedes, mind you!- it smelled, and don't ask about how vague the shift linkage was. It also started every time and drove me to school and work every day for the entire six months I owned it, even in the winter, at which point some idiot in a Honda Civic t-boned me, killing himself, and totaling my car (admittedly, a bird pooping on it would have probably totaled it). I walked away. That is safe reliable transportation, in my opinion, and it cost me $250.

I took the insurance check from his company, and some of the money I got from my job, and spent $950 on a 1982 240D. It had a number of other non-running-properly issues, including non-working a/c (if there is a pre-1990 Mercedes diesel with working A/C I would be fascinated to know about it) but it did the same basic job. You need a car to do the job of getting you to work and back, you can buy one for under $1000. If you want a nice car for under $1000, you're right, you're smoking something.
So this $250 car, which polluted the air (even if it was legally emission-exempt) and seemed to barely work lasted only 6 months. Let's see, my Honda is almost 20 years old. That means I'd have to buy 40 of those $250 cars to get the same utility. That means paying $10,000 for cars that barely work, pollute the hell out of the air, are not really suitable for freeway driving and long trips. Actually, I wouldn't get the same utility, my $18,000 Honda (purchased used 1 year old) has been more or less fully functional for the entire 20 years, and only in the last couple of years have I started getting really expensive repair jobs. If I couldn't afford to buy a "nice" car, I wouldn't bother with a $250 junker, I'd use public transit, Uber, and maybe rent a car if I really needed one.
 

Green Maned Lion

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So this $250 car, which polluted the air (even if it was legally emission-exempt) and seemed to barely work lasted only 6 months. Let's see, my Honda is almost 20 years old. That means I'd have to buy 40 of those $250 cars to get the same utility. That means paying $10,000 for cars that barely work, pollute the hell out of the air, are not really suitable for freeway driving and long trips. Actually, I wouldn't get the same utility, my $18,000 Honda (purchased used 1 year old) has been more or less fully functional for the entire 20 years, and only in the last couple of years have I started getting really expensive repair jobs. If I couldn't afford to buy a "nice" car, I wouldn't bother with a $250 junker, I'd use public transit, Uber, and maybe rent a car if I really needed one.
You apparently didn’t follow. I drove it for six months only because somebody drove into the passengers side of it at about forty miles per hour; the impact was so hard the wheels were all ripped off their mountings; if I had a passenger in the car they would have very likely died. If your Honda got hit like that as you pulled out of the dealer, it would have been totaled after five minutes.

Other than it being a bit underpowered from its age (and the fact that it was frankly underpowered on the day it rolled out of Sindelfingen), an oil change, and countless gallons of diesel fuel (I want to say it averaged about 25 mpg, which isn’t bad considering the return lines were shot), I put no money into that car; $250, that is all.

It never left me stranded, never failed to start (although it frequently failed to shut off, requiring a shove on the manual shut-off switch under the hood), never even crossed my mind that it would- even in the dead of winter. I mean the only thing it really failed to do- miserably- was get me laid.

I wouldn’t have been surprised if itkept chugging along for years; there is a reason why at the time that model and generation of Mercedes was the most popular taxicab in the developing world. Don’t tell me you want a cheap, reliable, running car for cheap- I’d probably recommend a 1995 Lada Niva or Whatever they were calling the Zhighuli in Canada in 1995- and then start talking about comfort and luxury and whatnot when I point out you can get it. And please, God, don’t mention emissions, the main durability and reliability problem that plagues every modern car.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
986
I got all y'all topped; paid $5 (truly, not from a relative) for an '83 Volvo 245 and drove it for like four years with little problem (fixed most of what was wrong first weekend I owned it) until my parents bought a new car and insisted I take theirs (which was in the family for 20 years until it rusted away, was trying to get it to 200k). Was a better, if less fun, car than my Scirocco.
 

Alice

OBS Chief
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
989
Location
California
I did better than Metra Electric. Got a 50-something huge Chrysler (the kind with back fenders that looked like wings and genuine chrome bumpers that looked like teeth in front) from a sailing friend who couldn't sell it (high mileage, dented all around except the chrome, inoperable gas gauge/ odometer/speedometer/etc) on the condition I'd stack his boat over mine when we were both going to the same place. Drove it many miles towing boats all over the west. Until the A-frame contraption on the right front wheel came loose and the wheel came off and rolled to the bottom of the hill (leaving lug nuts on the studs). I might add that it was getting kind of hard to steer in the months before that, which meant everybody in Bay Area traffic kept their distance, a nice benefit of teenage girl doing erratic driving. Those bumpers would cream anything else on the road, especially those cute VWs so popular in Berkeley in the 60s-70s. Got it out of the middle of the road by jacking it up and pushing it over repeatedly, and talked to the resident where I parked it so he would not have it towed. That weekend sold it as-is where-is for $100 to a guy who used it for quite a few more years and miles to haul dope from Mexico. He said it had lots of hiding spots and also didn't sit any lower when carrying quite a payload.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2016
Messages
986
I did better than Metra Electric. Got a 50-something huge Chrysler (the kind with back fenders that looked like wings and genuine chrome bumpers that looked like teeth in front) from a sailing friend who couldn't sell it (high mileage, dented all around except the chrome, inoperable gas gauge/ odometer/speedometer/etc) on the condition I'd stack his boat over mine when we were both going to the same place. Drove it many miles towing boats all over the west. Until the A-frame contraption on the right front wheel came loose and the wheel came off and rolled to the bottom of the hill (leaving lug nuts on the studs). I might add that it was getting kind of hard to steer in the months before that, which meant everybody in Bay Area traffic kept their distance, a nice benefit of teenage girl doing erratic driving. Those bumpers would cream anything else on the road, especially those cute VWs so popular in Berkeley in the 60s-70s. Got it out of the middle of the road by jacking it up and pushing it over repeatedly, and talked to the resident where I parked it so he would not have it towed. That weekend sold it as-is where-is for $100 to a guy who used it for quite a few more years and miles to haul dope from Mexico. He said it had lots of hiding spots and also didn't sit any lower when carrying quite a payload.
Well done. My uncle up in Alberta had one of the later big Fuselage Chryslers - I loved the whine they made as they accelerated. When I sold mine I made like a multi-100% profit.
 
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