Help with an Amtrak centered vacation: Is a USA Rail Pass worth it?

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This summer I plan on taking a long range Amtrak centered vacation. I am going to travel from Chicago to LA and back. Ideally, I'd take different routes out west and then back east. I am open to all potential routes California Zephyr,Texas Eagle, Empire Builder. I have a few questions. I'll probably stop over night once or twice during each way. I'll travel coach regardless if I do USA Rail or regular ticket. First, right off the bat, would you guys recommend a USA rail pass for this kind of trip? I've heard mixed things about it. Also, would you recommend a particular route? I welcome any general advice/tips. Thanks in advance!
 
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This summer I plan on taking a long range Amtrak centered vacation. I am going to travel from Chicago to LA and back. Ideally, I'd take different routes out west and then back east. I am open to all potential routes California Zephyr,Texas Eagle, Empire Builder. I have a few questions. I'll probably stop over night once or twice during each way. I'll travel coach regardless if I do USA Rail or regular ticket. First, right off the bat, would you guys recommend a USA rail pass for this kind of trip? I've heard mixed things about it. Also, would you recommend a particular route? I welcome any general advice/tips. Thanks in advance!
I used a rail pass on the following itinerary, but it has changed since, so I won't comment about that.

I took:

  • California Zephyr from CHI to EMY
  • Overnight at EMY
  • Coast Starlight from EMY to LAX
  • Overnight in LAX
  • Coast Starlight from LAX to SEA
  • Overnight in SEA
  • Empire Builder from SEA to CHI.
I LOVED that trip.

These three trains are amongst the most scenic (CZ especially) and offer the best service (CS and EB).
 
It depends on when you want to go, if you want to travel within the next month, then the USA-RP is probably not the best thing to do, because seats available for RP holders are limited. If you want to travel in a few months or even half a year, then this is perfect.

I did a 49-Day, 15000 Miles (jup, 1 5 0 0 0 Miles) trip and was perfectly happy with my railpass, for just $749!

The RailPass is split up into segments, so you can use a segment also for things like the GrandCanyon RR, or most Coach services.

Note that using a RP on GC RR brings you the option of a one-way trip which is otherwise nearly unobtainable.

The Empire Builder is what I would call a train with a decent atmosphere and probably the best option within the Amtrak-System,

the Coast Starlight is not as posh as amtrak would like it to be,

the Sothwest Chief and the CZ are those "average" Amtrak trains, concerning food, passengers and level of service.
 
This summer I plan on taking a long range Amtrak centered vacation. I am going to travel from Chicago to LA and back. Ideally, I'd take different routes out west and then back east. I am open to all potential routes California Zephyr,Texas Eagle, Empire Builder. I have a few questions. I'll probably stop over night once or twice during each way. I'll travel coach regardless if I do USA Rail or regular ticket. First, right off the bat, would you guys recommend a USA rail pass for this kind of trip? I've heard mixed things about it. Also, would you recommend a particular route? I welcome any general advice/tips. Thanks in advance!
You should get the $745 pass and use within 180 days, then yes its a good deal!
 
The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment.

Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
 
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The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
That is not true. The US Rail pass is goof for 18 trips regardless ticket price, you pay $745, you get 18 tickets for coach seat anywhere in US. You pay nothing more unless you upgrade to roomtette/bedroom.
 
The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
That is not true. The US Rail pass is goof for 18 trips regardless ticket price, you pay $745, you get 18 tickets for coach seat anywhere in US. You pay nothing more unless you upgrade to roomtette/bedroom.
Sorry, but no. That's how it used to work with the old passes.

That said, Caravanman isn't quite correct either. With the new pass there are a limited number of seats available for each train for use by pass holders. Once those seats are given to pass holders, you cannot travel on that train on that day using the pass only. If you really want to travel that day, then you must pay the difference between the low bucket price for a seat for your trip and the current bucket price that seats are selling for.
 
The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
That is not true. The US Rail pass is goof for 18 trips regardless ticket price, you pay $745, you get 18 tickets for coach seat anywhere in US. You pay nothing more unless you upgrade to roomtette/bedroom.
Sorry, but no. That's how it used to work with the old passes.

That said, Caravanman isn't quite correct either. With the new pass there are a limited number of seats available for each train for use by pass holders. Once those seats are given to pass holders, you cannot travel on that train on that day using the pass only. If you really want to travel that day, then you must pay the difference between the low bucket price for a seat for your trip and the current bucket price that seats are selling for.
Here is the exact copy from the Amtrak site:

Regions and Travel Periods

Passes are available in three travel durations and travel segments (15 days/8 segments, 30 days/12 segments and 45 days/18 segments) through out the entire United States. Travel must begin within 180 days of the date the pass is issued.
 
The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
That is not true. The US Rail pass is goof for 18 trips regardless ticket price, you pay $745, you get 18 tickets for coach seat anywhere in US. You pay nothing more unless you upgrade to roomtette/bedroom.
Sorry, but no. That's how it used to work with the old passes.

That said, Caravanman isn't quite correct either. With the new pass there are a limited number of seats available for each train for use by pass holders. Once those seats are given to pass holders, you cannot travel on that train on that day using the pass only. If you really want to travel that day, then you must pay the difference between the low bucket price for a seat for your trip and the current bucket price that seats are selling for.
I'm sorry, that is incorrect. Amtrak informed me that the USA Pass is good for any trip in US regardless where you go as long seats are available. I have the 45 day pass and I already reserved 11 trips and it works. The old pass system retired. Amtrak changed and that what they told me.

This is just FYI for you.
 
I think we may be at cross purposes here. Each railpass is valid for a certain number of segments, so in effect you are buying a certain number of trips. You can check it all out on the Amtrak.com website. There is a "what should I know" link near the top of the railpass page. I copied the following from it 5 minutes ago!

"What is a Travel Segment?

Amtrak considers a travel segment any time you get on and then get off a vehicle (train, bus, ferry or other allowable leg) regardless of length.

Example 1

Because we don't have a direct route from Washington, DC to Oklahoma, City, OK, you could ride the Capitol Limited train from Washington to Chicago (segment 1), then ride the Texas Eagle train from Chicago to Fort Worth (segment 2) and finally ride the Heartland Flyer train from Fort Worth to Oklahoma, City (segment 3). This journey from Washington to Oklahoma City would use three of your allowable segments.

Example 2

To travel from Spokane, WA to Portland OR, you could ride the Empire Builder train directly to Portland using one segment or you could ride the Empire Builder train to Seattle (segment 1) and then ride the Amtrak Cascades train from Seattle to Portland (segment 2). Both journeys take you to Portland but use a different number of your allowable segments.

Each segment booked counts toward the total allowable number of segments permitted for the pass."

Anyway, it sounds as if Transit rider is going to have a great time.

Cheers,

Eddie :cool:
 
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The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
That is not true. The US Rail pass is goof for 18 trips regardless ticket price, you pay $745, you get 18 tickets for coach seat anywhere in US. You pay nothing more unless you upgrade to roomtette/bedroom.
Sorry, but no. That's how it used to work with the old passes.

That said, Caravanman isn't quite correct either. With the new pass there are a limited number of seats available for each train for use by pass holders. Once those seats are given to pass holders, you cannot travel on that train on that day using the pass only. If you really want to travel that day, then you must pay the difference between the low bucket price for a seat for your trip and the current bucket price that seats are selling for.
I'm sorry, that is incorrect. Amtrak informed me that the USA Pass is good for any trip in US regardless where you go as long seats are available. I have the 45 day pass and I already reserved 11 trips and it works. The old pass system retired. Amtrak changed and that what they told me.

This is just FYI for you.
Direct from Amtrak's website on Rail passes:

Reservations for train travel should be made as far in advance as possible; seats available for USA Rail Pass passengers are limited on each train. We do not recommend waiting until the day of departure to make your reservations since there is a greater chance that seats allocated for the USA Rail Pass may not be available on your desired train. If your plans are not flexible, non-USA Rail Pass seats may be available at an additional cost.
Please take note of the "limited seats" and the "non-USA Rail Pass seats may be available at additional costs" sections of the above paragraph. A USA Railpass does not guarantee one a seat on a train as long as seats are available. It only guaratees one a seat if at least one the "limited" number of USA Railpass seats is available.

It was the old pass that guaranteed one a seat no matter what. The new, and current pass does not. Whomever you spoke with at Amtrak had the wrong info and you just happened to have booked early enough to get what you want. In addition to the confirmation from Amtrak's website found here, this has been confirmed by many members who have traveled on the pass and had to alter plans because all the Railpass seats were sold out.
 
If you want to upgrade to a sleeper is the upcharge (if available) the same as what is listed as the Accommodation charge? Does the accommodation charge vary by buckets or is only the rail fare that goes by buckets?
 
If you want to upgrade to a sleeper is the upcharge (if available) the same as what is listed as the Accommodation charge? Does the accommodation charge vary by buckets or is only the rail fare that goes by buckets?
Sleepers in conjuntion with a Rail Pass work the same way as if you were buying everything. Prior to boarding, you pay whatever the current bucket rate is on Amtrak.com. Once onboard, you pay the low bucket price if a room is available.
 
The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
That is not true. The US Rail pass is goof for 18 trips regardless ticket price, you pay $745, you get 18 tickets for coach seat anywhere in US. You pay nothing more unless you upgrade to roomtette/bedroom.
Sorry, but no. That's how it used to work with the old passes.

That said, Caravanman isn't quite correct either. With the new pass there are a limited number of seats available for each train for use by pass holders. Once those seats are given to pass holders, you cannot travel on that train on that day using the pass only. If you really want to travel that day, then you must pay the difference between the low bucket price for a seat for your trip and the current bucket price that seats are selling for.
I'm sorry, that is incorrect. Amtrak informed me that the USA Pass is good for any trip in US regardless where you go as long seats are available. I have the 45 day pass and I already reserved 11 trips and it works. The old pass system retired. Amtrak changed and that what they told me.

This is just FYI for you.
Direct from Amtrak's website on Rail passes:

Reservations for train travel should be made as far in advance as possible; seats available for USA Rail Pass passengers are limited on each train. We do not recommend waiting until the day of departure to make your reservations since there is a greater chance that seats allocated for the USA Rail Pass may not be available on your desired train. If your plans are not flexible, non-USA Rail Pass seats may be available at an additional cost.
Please take note of the "limited seats" and the "non-USA Rail Pass seats may be available at additional costs" sections of the above paragraph. A USA Railpass does not guarantee one a seat on a train as long as seats are available. It only guaratees one a seat if at least one the "limited" number of USA Railpass seats is available.

It was the old pass that guaranteed one a seat no matter what. The new, and current pass does not. Whomever you spoke with at Amtrak had the wrong info and you just happened to have booked early enough to get what you want. In addition to the confirmation from Amtrak's website found here, this has been confirmed by many members who have traveled on the pass and had to alter plans because all the Railpass seats were sold out.
Care to elborate how I successfully reserved 11 tickets out of 18 segments for this summer? :)
 
^^^

The simple answer would be that you reserved 11 of the seats Amtrak has marked on those trains as being available for USA Rail Pass.

I think it's still early enough in the season that there would be a decent number of low-bucket or railpass-accessible seats available for summer travel, except during the most peak periods.

In any case, we don't know how many of those seats per train Amtrak has blessed as being accessible with USA Rail Pass without an extra charge. We also don't know how many of those seats have already been sold/claimed.

I don't think it's necessary, but if you want to know for sure and you have extra segments, I would try to book a segment on a train where we know coach seats are selling at higher bucket levels (maybe ones that are mid-range or higher).
 
Care to elborate how I successfully reserved 11 tickets out of 18 segments for this summer? :)
Without knowing dates and trains, I couldn't begin to elaborate on your trip. But RTOlsen is correct, without a doubt you got in early enough to land one of the USA Rail Pass seats on all trains. Come back in late June and try the same thing for trains in July and I can guarantee that you won't be succesful at getting all the seats that you want on your various trains.

Please remember, this isn't my policy, its Amtrak's. And many people have tried and failed since they changed the pass rules about 3 years ago or so IIRC. Our own Mr. Caravanman fell victim to the new rules and was forced to pay the upcharge in Chicago for one train IIRC.
 
Well, I ended up driving a hire car for my 3 week visit instead of riding Amtrak. That in itself was an amazing experience, from Chicago to San Francisco.. and back! I have never used a rail pass since.. I should emphasis that this was a visitors railpass, but similar to the one in current use today

My Posting and comments at the time click here!

Cheers,

Eddie :cool:
 
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Well, I ended up driving a hire car for my 3 week visit instead of riding Amtrak. That in itself was an amazing experience, from Chicago to San Francisco.. and back! Eddie :cool:
I hope it wasn't interesting because you were driving on the wrong side of the road! :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Care to elborate how I successfully reserved 11 tickets out of 18 segments for this summer? :)
Without knowing dates and trains, I couldn't begin to elaborate on your trip. But RTOlsen is correct, without a doubt you got in early enough to land one of the USA Rail Pass seats on all trains. Come back in late June and try the same thing for trains in July and I can guarantee that you won't be succesful at getting all the seats that you want on your various trains.

Please remember, this isn't my policy, its Amtrak's. And many people have tried and failed since they changed the pass rules about 3 years ago or so IIRC. Our own Mr. Caravanman fell victim to the new rules and was forced to pay the upcharge in Chicago for one train IIRC.
Alan,

It's true but I was smart enough made the reseravtions 6 months early and was lucky enough to reserve seats. I will layout the trip shortly.
 
The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train. Once you get off each train (break your journey) you use up a whole ticket segment. If you use a connecting "Thruway" bus that is also a segment. Broadly speaking, each segment of a railpass costs about $45 to buy, give or take a few $, so it can mean a good saving on longer trips, not so good for stopovers.

I am not sure what "average passengers" are, as mentioned by Sam31452 ? All I can say is that the scenery on the Zephyr is stunning, even if it is only enjoyed by "average" humans like myself ....

Cheers,

Eddie.

PS I clocked up 12,500 Amtrak miles on a 15 day old style Amtrak pass!
12500 Miles in 15 Days? Was this a rail-only-no sightseeing trip?

The "average" amtrak passenger is a good mixture between all of the passenger groups.

The EB sometimes has the feeling of an all-tourist train, whilst on the CZ and the Southwest Chief you've got a good mixture between peope who really need to get somewhere and people who are doing a leisure trip.

BTW: On the Sunset Limited, spanish is very widely spoken. and people usually really need to get somewhere.

But I agree, the Denver-Grand Junction part of the CZ is probably among the Top 10 scenic rail trips on this planet.

The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train
I asked Amtrak about this, they denied it. I was able to book free of a surcharge also when prices were in a higher bucket already.

Seats reserved for RP-pax aren't related to those bucket prices.
 
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The main problem with the rail pass is that it is only valid for use if there are still the lowest price seats still available on the train
I asked Amtrak about this, they denied it. I was able to book free of a surcharge also when prices were in a higher bucket already.

Seats reserved for RP-pax aren't related to those bucket prices.
Correct. The bucket don't come into play at all, until all the special seats held for RailPass users are gone. Once those special seats are gone, then the current bucket price of a regular seat does come into play, as you'll have to pay the difference between the low bucket and the current bucket if you really must be on that train on that day. That of course assumes that there are any seats even left in the regular pool of seats.

And it is technically possible, not sure if it's ever happened, to see all regular seats sold out and still be able to get a rail pass seat.

I'm not sure if there is a point where any unsold RailPass seats are returned to normal sales inventory or if they just go empty. I'm guessing that it's kind of like the H-rooms, that they are returned to inventory if they aren't taken by a certain number of days before departure.
 
It is quite probable that my original seat availability information was mistaken, as it applied in any case to the international rail pass, and not the current version which is open to all purchasers.

However, it seems to me that the issues around seat availability are still just as confusing. There ought to be a way for the travelling public to be able to see "rail pass seat" availability on each train before they start planning their whole trip, rather as we can view sleeper availability. It seems daft that Amtrak can take our money for the railpass up front, but we can't look on Amtrak.com to see which trains are available in order to plan our trip!

The 12,500 miles was an intensive rail pass trip.. I am a frequent visitor to lower 48 states ;) and have got off the train on other trips, having visited New Orleans, Orlando, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, Niagra Falls, New York and Washington DC, all by train.. but not on the same trip. I must see if I can total up my milage one day soon...

Cheers,

Eddie :cool:
 
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Thanks everyone for the replies. It does seem like as long as you plan ahead of time and book one of the USA Rail seats, the USA Rail Pass is probably the best bet. I am thinking I'll probably take the Empire Builder out west, the Coastal Starlight south through California and the Zephyr back east. The only thing with the USA Rail Pass is that it forces you to have a very finite plan determined several months in advance. If I go in mid- July, I'll have to book my trip soon. But I guess in order to save some money, I am willing to sacrifice some spontaneity. Also, lets say I wanted to go from Chicago to Seattle down California and through Denver back to Chicago, you guys think I'd need the 30 day pass if I wanted to do some sightseeing? It seems like the 15 day pass would be very rushed but I don't want to buy the longer pass if I don't need it. Thanks again everybody.
 
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Having the luxury of the longer pass would allow you to make the most of your time.. at the end of the day though, you need to browse the timetables at Amtrak.com, and see what trip is possible, what sightseeing you want to do for yourself...

Just make sure you do check that the trains you want to use are still open for railpasses, before you book any other hotel rooms, etc.

Happy Travels,

Eddie :cool:
 
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