High fares and sell-outs on Cascades

[trimetbusfan]

Slightly good news here. Effective immediately Amtrak is adding an additional horizon Coach to all the cascade sets. (Each set should now have 3 coaches and a cafe/business class car)

This will mean an extra ~50 seats per train!

 

[Septa9739]

Hopefully this will help the Cascades get its ridership back up. It’s been stuck at 40k for months with very little changes. I think that’s the capacity problem

 

[trimetbusfan]

Hopefully this will help the Cascades get its ridership back up. It’s been stuck at 40k for months with very little changes. I think that’s the capacity problem

I hope so too.. for the past few months the horizon sets only had 2 Coach cars and a cafe/buisness class car which means the entire train was limited to a capacity of around 100 seats. From what I have heard the Talgo 8 sets have over double that capacity.

 

[AmtrakMaineiac]

Amtrak Cascades Service Fully Restored

Direct travel between Portland and Vancouver, BC now available

WASHINGTON – Amtrak, in collaboration with ODOT, WSDOT and other agencies resumes Cascades service between Portland, Ore. and Vancouver, BC on March 6. Today’s announcement marks the first time direct service will operate between Portland and stations north of Seattle since 2020. Serving 12 stations along the I-5 corridor in western Washington, customers traveling north can depart Portland at 3:05 p.m. — Seattle at 7 p.m. — for an 11 p.m. arrival in Vancouver, BC. The southbound train leaves Vancouver, BC at 6:35 a.m. for an 11 a.m. stop in Seattle and a 2:55 p.m. Portland arrival.

Full Amtrak Announcement

 

[Willbridge]

Amtrak Cascades Service Fully Restored

Direct travel between Portland and Vancouver, BC now available

WASHINGTON – Amtrak, in collaboration with ODOT, WSDOT and other agencies resumes Cascades service between Portland, Ore. and Vancouver, BC on March 6. Today’s announcement marks the first time direct service will operate between Portland and stations north of Seattle since 2020. Serving 12 stations along the I-5 corridor in western Washington, customers traveling north can depart Portland at 3:05 p.m. — Seattle at 7 p.m. — for an 11 p.m. arrival in Vancouver, BC. The southbound train leaves Vancouver, BC at 6:35 a.m. for an 11 a.m. stop in Seattle and a 2:55 p.m. Portland arrival.

Full Amtrak Announcement

As of 2330 March 7th, Train 518 Business Class is sold out somewhere between PDX and VAC, and Coach fare is chugging upwards, higher than any of the Rail+Bus itineraries. Ditto for Train 517.

 

[west point]

As of 2330 March 7th, Train 518 Business Class is sold out somewhere between PDX and VAC, and Coach fare is chugging upwards, higher than any of the Rail+Bus itineraries. Ditto for Train 517.

So, still not enough seats? Amtrak cannot provide enough capacity ?i

 

[trimetbusfan]

So, still not enough seats? Amtrak cannot provide enough capacity ?i

The business class will always have an extremely limited set of seats until they stop running the Horizons. There are only 16 business class seats per train, and unlike coaches, more business class seats can't really be added easily.

 

[zephyr17]

The business class will always have an extremely limited set of seats until they stop running the Horizons. There are only 16 business class seats per train, and unlike coaches, more business class seats can't really be added easily.

And the BC in those Horizons really kinda sucks. How did they forget overhead luggage racks?

 

[Willbridge]

The business class will always have an extremely limited set of seats until they stop running the Horizons. There are only 16 business class seats per train, and unlike coaches, more business class seats can't really be added easily.

As demonstrated by checking on Wednesday night for Sunday, March 12th. The new train and additional coaches appear to have loosened things up a bit, but BC is still tough.

Here's the PDX to SEA line-up as of Wednesday night:
0800 FB $41
0820 AT $47/SO
1020 FB $46
1145 GL $41 (Time adjust for DST - trip overnight from SAC)
1200 AT $66/SO
1230 FB $51
1500 FB $51
1505 AT $59/$87
1656 AT $66/--/$206 (Time adjust for DST - trip overnight from LAX)
1845 FB $46
1925 AT $42/$80
2250 GL $36 (2nd SAC<>SEA trip restored)

And here's PDX to SPK:
0800 FB $56 via Seattle
0820 AT $193/SO/$230 chng at Seattle
0950 GL $71 chng at Pasco
1645 AT $58/--/$183

Flix @ 1230 and 1500 through to VAC. Amtrak @ 1505 through to VAC.

AT = Amtrak Coach/Business/Sleeper, FB = Flixbus includes service charge rounded,
GL = Greyhound Lines includes service charge rounded.
SO = Sold Out.

 

[trimetbusfan]

And the BC in those Horizons really kinda sucks. How did they forget overhead luggage racks?

Some of the cars do have luggage racks, while others don't.

I also noticed on the 'lounge'/table side of the Horizon cafe, some cars will have power outlets at the tables, and others don't!

I personally think the seats themselves are better than the Talgos, but sometimes the LSA or Conductors won't face the seats to match the direction of travel on same-day-turn trains, so sometimes you will be forced to face backward the whole trip, which I greatly dislike.

Anyway, many unknowns! On par with Amtrak service standards I guess..

 

[zephyr17]

Some of the cars do have luggage racks, while others don't.

I also noticed on the 'lounge'/table side of the Horizon cafe, some cars will have power outlets at the tables, and others don't!

I personally think the seats themselves are better than the Talgos, but sometimes the LSA or Conductors won't face the seats to match the direction of travel on same-day-turn trains, so sometimes you will be forced to face backward the whole trip, which I greatly dislike.

Anyway, many unknowns! On par with Amtrak service standards I guess..

View attachment 31649

I only rode a Horizon set once so far, it was in BC in a car that didn't have luggage racks. Getting on in Everett (going to VAC) I was also stuck in a bulkhead seat so there wasn't even under seat storage available. It also had a storage closet across the aisle, not a row with a window. That seat should not have been sold at all, let alone at a premium price (much higher than the relatively nominal BC surcharge since the BC inventory is separate and was in top bucket).

I will not be buying BC on a Horizon set again. Coach looked a lot more comfortable than that awful seat. You can often tell which trains have Talgo versus Horizon by looking at the BC prices.

If they are not going to turn the Horizon seats at the terminals, they ought to do what they did the last couple times Superliners subbed for Talgos on 516/519 in the Before Times. The cars were set up with half the seats one way, half the other. So you had at least a 50% chance of facing forward.

 

[IAlam]

Some of the cars do have luggage racks, while others don't.

I also noticed on the 'lounge'/table side of the Horizon cafe, some cars will have power outlets at the tables, and others don't!

I personally think the seats themselves are better than the Talgos, but sometimes the LSA or Conductors won't face the seats to match the direction of travel on same-day-turn trains, so sometimes you will be forced to face backward the whole trip, which I greatly dislike.

Anyway, many unknowns! On par with Amtrak service standards I guess..

View attachment 31649

Do you think passengers would be allowed to flip the seats themselves? I'd flip everyone's seats for them if it allows us to sit forward.

 

[trimetbusfan]

Do you think passengers would be allowed to flip the seats themselves? I'd flip everyone's seats for them if it allows us to sit forward.

The crew dosen't like it when you do this.. I think the problem is that once everyone is seated and situated it would be kind of a hassle to make everyone stand up while they flipped their seat around.

Also, for the record, a properly trained crew will flip the seats to match the direction of travel, but not all do. I have been on at least one trip where heading southbound, all the seats were facing northbound, and I have seen videos on YouTube of this happening too.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The crew dosen't like it when you do this.. I think the problem is that once everyone is seated and situated it would be kind of a hassle to make everyone stand up while they flipped their seat around.

Also, for the record, a properly trained crew will flip the seats to match the direction of travel, but not all do. I have been on at least one trip where heading southbound, all the seats were facing northbound, and I have seen videos on YouTube of this happening too.

When the Thru Cars ( Sleeper and Coach)on the Texas Eagle #421 are connected to the Sunset Ltd #1 in San Antonio , the Seats in the Coach are turned by the Attendant and Conductors once it's Daylight on the Way West( #1 Leaves SAS @ 2:45AM)since the Coach can be hooked up "Backwards" during the Switching.

This isn't always done on the #2 to #22 Texas Eagle departing San Antonio for Chicago, resulting in some Coach Passengers riding " Backwards" all the way to Chicago!

 

[Trogdor]

And the BC in those Horizons really kinda sucks. How did they forget overhead luggage racks?

Some Horizon club-dinettes were converted from full dinette/cafe car configuration, which didn't have luggage racks.

Others were converted from half-dinette, half-coach configuration, and the coach side had luggage racks when built.

 

[zephyr17]

Some Horizon club-dinettes were converted from full dinette/cafe car configuration, which didn't have luggage racks.

Others were converted from half-dinette, half-coach configuration, and the coach side had luggage racks when built.

Unfortunately, my response is "so what?" If Amtrak was converting dinettes, understandably without luggage racks, to revenue passenger cars, they should have installed standard revenue seating amenities, like luggage racks. Passengers expect luggage racks.

Then there is the issue of consistency, in which Amtrak runs a master class in not providing for almost everything they do.

Happy to know the reason, though, even though it falls more into the category of "excuse".

 

[IAlam]

The crew dosen't like it when you do this.. I think the problem is that once everyone is seated and situated it would be kind of a hassle to make everyone stand up while they flipped their seat around.

Also, for the record, a properly trained crew will flip the seats to match the direction of travel, but not all do. I have been on at least one trip where heading southbound, all the seats were facing northbound, and I have seen videos on YouTube of this happening too.

I guess if I were to do it I’d have to be quick and before everyone else gets on. But I would definitely be very unhappy if I was forced to ride backwards because of crew negligence.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

I couldn't care less about riding backwards. By myself in a roomette I often sit that way.

 

[railiner]

I too, strongly prefer to ride facing forward. The motion has nothing to do with it…indeed facing backward is probably more comfortable, since trains can decelerate much faster than they can accelerate.

However, when you face forward, you get an earlier view of points of interest, allowing you to focus on it as it passes by. When facing backward, by the time you recognize same, it is rapidly diminishing in the distance.

The old Pullman Company recognized the preferred forward view, by assigning those in the higher priced open section lower berth, the forward facing seat during daytime travel.

 

[jis]

I too, strongly prefer to ride facing forward. The motion has nothing to do with it…indeed facing backward is probably more comfortable, since trains can decelerate much faster than they can accelerate.

And for the same reason safer in a collision/derailment involving sudden deceleration too.

 

[carol149]

I too, strongly prefer to ride facing forward. The motion has nothing to do with it…indeed facing backward is probably more comfortable, since trains can decelerate much faster than they can accelerate.

However, when you face forward, you get an earlier view of points of interest, allowing you to focus on it as it passes by. When facing backward, by the time you recognize same, it is rapidly diminishing in the distance.

The old Pullman Company recognized the preferred forward view, by assigning those in the higher priced open section lower berth, the forward facing seat during daytime travel.

Car sick when facing backward.

 

[ChuckL]

Unrelated to the prior discussions, I would like to know if anyone has been able to check their luggage frim Vancouver, BC to Seattle, WA on the evening train, and can it be checked in the morning after we get off of a cruise ship?i haven't seen mention of it in lieu of the baggage racks and question whether the service exist as as I am mobility disabled.

Also does anyone have a current copy of the Bistro Menu as it sounds like it has been expanded and we would like to have a dinner of more than microwaved sandwiches. Or if not, where in the area of the Pan Pacific Station is there that we could get a carryout dinner from and bring it with us onboard?

 

[zephyr17]

Unrelated to the prior discussions, I would like to know if anyone has been able to check their luggage frim Vancouver, BC to Seattle, WA on the evening train, and can it be checked in the morning after we get off of a cruise ship?i haven't seen mention of it in lieu of the baggage racks and question whether the service exist as as I am mobility disabled.

Also does anyone have a current copy of the Bistro Menu as it sounds like it has been expanded and we would like to have a dinner of more than microwaved sandwiches. Or if not, where in the area of the Pan Pacific Station is there that we could get a carryout dinner from and bring it with us onboard?

Cascades 519 handles checked baggage to Seattle from Vancouver. However, Vancouver is unusual in that you cannot check it early because the baggage must be with you during the US Immigration inspection immediately prior to boarding, plus the station is not staffed by Amtrak personnel. Baggage check is done trainside by the Amtrak train crew after US Immigration.

However, VIA's baggage room will day check your luggage and hold it for a fee ($10 CAD per piece, IIRC). You will have to reclaim all your luggage from VIA and have it with you before lining up for check in and US Immigration inspection (one line, you check in, then proceed through US inspection). You should know check in closes 15 minutes before departure so US Immigration inspection can be completed before scheduled departure. At VAC, you should really arrive no later than 45 minutes before departure and preferably an hour (I always shoot for 4:30 myself). You will probably have to line up to retrieve your day checked bags from VIA, too. During cruise season you won't be the only one doing it.

There isn't much in the way of food in the immediate area of Pacific Central Station, there's an A&W on the other side of Main Street by the Main Street/Science World Skytrain station (there used to be one in station, but it closed). In any case, you really cannot bring dinner onboard, unless dinner is crackers and mozzarella sticks. Most freshly prepared food will not be allowed past US inspection and they'll make you toss it. If you try to hide it and get caught, you'll be in for a possible fine and a note on your passport record that will get likely you pulled into secondary inspections every time you enter the US for a long, long time. Most commercially packaged snacks are okay (not meat products, though).

I don't have the current Cascades menu. It is the National cafe menu with some additional items. The Ivar's Clam Chowder is one they always have, and that's great.

VIA waives the day check charges to hold baggage for 519 for those arriving on the Canadian in Sleeper Plus or Prestige classes, BTW.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Unfortunately, my response is "so what?" If Amtrak was converting dinettes, understandably without luggage racks, to revenue passenger cars, they should have installed standard revenue seating amenities, like luggage racks. Passengers expect luggage racks.

Then there is the issue of consistency, in which Amtrak runs a master class in not providing for almost everything they do.

Happy to know the reason, though, even though it falls more into the category of "excuse".

Not to be overly argumentative or pedantic, but I wonder if the overhead luggage racks require reinforcing structure built into the cars from the get go and is not possible to add easily or for a reasonable cost during refurbishments (and possibly time constraints on the refurbs too, since it's custom metal work and possible a different trade).

Note that I say this without that much knowledge of how the cars are actually built structurally (and their general actual assembly) and how Amtrak's construction trades for refurbs work, but base it on my knowledge of construction. Things are sometimes very complicated with structural items - especially cantilevers which the racks essentially are.

 

[zephyr17]

Not to be overly argumentative or pedantic, but I wonder if the overhead luggage racks require reinforcing structure built into the cars from the get go and is not possible to add easily or for a reasonable cost during refurbishments (and possibly time constraints on the refurbs too, since it's custom metal work and possible a different trade).

Note that I say this without that much knowledge of how the cars are actually built structurally (and their general actual assembly) and how Amtrak's construction trades for refurbs work, but base it on my knowledge of construction. Things are sometimes very complicated with structural items - especially cantilevers which the racks essentially are.

That may be, although the shells are the same, I do not know what is between the shell and the car interior.

As to "reasonable cost and time" or "different trades" I still do not find those to be acceptable reasons. Pay the money and get the people to do it right, or don't do it. Especially for an allegedly "premium" product.

Having to do a major teardown and reconstruction (as opposed to just throwing in some seats and putting up a hypothetically simple rack) is certainly a possibility, but even there, do it right or don't do it applies. So don't do it. If they didn't realize it would be complicated and expensive before starting, it's still on them.

To me it remains a prime example Amtrak's half-buttocked approach to so many things.