Hoosier State goes from Amtrak to Corridor Capital

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"Railplan International in Baltimore "is being hired as a subcontractor to retrofit luggage towers and modular bathrooms into the cars, to make them fit for daily intercity operation and be responsible for maintenance," Plous says.""

...

Also, ""We were selected based on our reputation and our sub-contractors reputation," Plous says, "but costs are not settled yet."" Hmm.
RailPlan has a reputation alright...

A certain high-level official once told me the secret to living forever: schedule your death with RailPlan!
 
Rickey, you do know the Amtrak commissary in Oakland contracts directely with Gourmet Rail Services. The CCJPA does not.
I didn't realize that.

My point still stands, Amtrak doesn't provide that service directly (they've sub-contracted it out.) The CCJPA and the SJJPA could *in theory* tell Amtrak that they want to handle commissary services and contract it out too. Just as in the case of the Hoosier State Corridor Capital could contract commissary services with an outside vendor if they offer food services.
 
I think that the new Hoosier State will still be on the same schedule as it is now, but there will be additional trains eventually at better times.
 
OK, given that description, this seems likely to work, though I still wouldn't bet on October.

If it means daily service separate from the Cardinal, that would be good. (Maybe the Cardinal schedule can then be tightened up.) Though the schedule is still too darn slow, and there appears to still be no plan to address that. If it adds food service, that would be helpful given the excessively long runtime.
 
Indiana DOT should contact NC DOT. NC started out the same way, with Amtrak providing everything for the Piedmonts. As time went on, NC provided it's own equipment (with Amtrak doing some of the rebuilds) and got some contractors to do the cleaning and daily maintenance. Amtrak still does the ticketing, provides the train and engine crews and the station agents. NCDOT sets the schedules.

It's totally doable.

jb
 
I don't doubt that it is.

I do doubt that it's doable in 3 months, and by a state DoT whose legislature just voted that counties and cities could plan and execute whatever mass transit they wanted, as long as it wasn't light rail.
 
Speaking of the Capitol Corridor... that's an example of a line where Amtrak has very little involvement...

The Capitol Corridor is operated by the Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority... [which] contracts... ...commissary services for the café cars... ...to Gourmet Rail Services... ...as more states move to situations like this Amtrak will have to bid aggressively to keep contracts.
Gourmet Rail Services food, which is also on the San Joaquins, generally puts the standard AmCafe fare served by Amtrak to shame. One has to wonder when one thinks of all the better food on state supported routes like these and the Downeaster, the Cascades, the Surfliners...
 
Do we know yet if the state is going to pay for any significant track improvements? As it stands, the HS is way too slow (5 hours) to compete with intercity bus service (~3 hours). This is made worse because the train is often late.

To me, that should be the first priority before operations shakeups, and getting new equipment.

I'm assuming that the plan to change control of the Hoosier State means that it will run separately of the Cardinal now? Would that mean that the Cardinal would shift to a detrain/receive only format north of IND (as is the case in other areas with LD trains and SD trains using the same stops)?
 
Do we know yet if the state is going to pay for any significant track improvements? As it stands, the HS is way too slow (5 hours) to compete with intercity bus service (~3 hours). This is made worse because the train is often late.

To me, that should be the first priority before operations shakeups, and getting new equipment.

I'm assuming that the plan to change control of the Hoosier State means that it will run separately of the Cardinal now? Would that mean that the Cardinal would shift to a detrain/receive only format north of IND (as is the case in other areas with LD trains and SD trains using the same stops)?
The Cardinal would almost assuredly not go to R/D north of Indianapolis, possibly save for Dyer, IN (the last stop before Chicago) unless one of two things happened:

(1) Amtrak decided that riders joining there were crowding out LD riders or

(2) There were a large number of state-supported or other trains over the same route.

The latter is usually the case...the LSL south of ALB has about 10-12 trains joining it. The Silvers north of DC are the same, as is the Zephyr west of Sacramento. On the other hand, the Zephyr heading east only hits this at Naperville (within Metra-land), and you've got a similar story on the Crescent's southern end. My best guess is that if Indiana asked Amtrak to do this without these conditions happening, Amtrak's response would be for them to get lost.
 
Makes sense. Hopefully, if Indiana is able to do this successfully, it will serve as an example for surrounding states. Then again, I'm not expecting any work on the Ohio Hub to be done until Kasich leaves office. That man turned down ~400 Million in federal dollars that was to be used as a starting investment to get the Ohio Hub going. He said "sure, you can give me the money, but I won't use it on passenger rail." The Feds promptly withdrew the money and used it elsewhere. Why any governor would turn down money for his state is beyond me.

I know that we're not supposed to talk politics here, but I just don't understand why so many people on the right oppose passenger rail development. I say this as a conservative/libertarian sort of guy. The backwardness of my peers annoys me so much sometimes.

To me, having good transportation infrastructure that includes rail helps the economy by moving people and goods efficiently. There are many cases where driving and flying aren't the best options, but are the only ones available.
 
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Indiana DOT should contact NC DOT. NC started out the same way, with Amtrak providing everything for the Piedmonts. As time went on, NC provided it's own equipment (with Amtrak doing some of the rebuilds) and got some contractors to do the cleaning and daily maintenance. Amtrak still does the ticketing, provides the train and engine crews and the station agents. NCDOT sets the schedules.

It's totally doable.
Yeah, but NCDOT was SERIOUS. They fought a court case to regain control of the tracks; they committed hundreds of millions to improve them; they rebuilt over a dozen stations; they had a speed target, a long-term plan, a medium-term plan, and a short-term plan.

If Indiana DOT (home of the light rail ban and NASCAR, consistently underfunding the South Shore Line, building gratuitous expressways) gets that serious about intercity rail, I will have to check whether I have died and gone to heaven.

I know that we're not supposed to talk politics here, but I just don't understand why so many people on the right oppose passenger rail development. I say this as a conservative/libertarian sort of guy. The backwardness of my peers annoys me so much sometimes.
Well: my only attempt at explanation: There are different types of "right wing".
I'm not sure "conservative" describes a coherent set of beliefs any more, it is used to cover so many different and nearly unrelated views (from "let's all be independent people living on our own ranches with no laws" to "let's all join under the rule of the One True Church", views which are pretty close to opposites).

I'm extremely conservative in the sense that I deeply dislike change and like to conserve things, but apparently this -- the definition in the dictionary -- has nothing to do with the modern political usages of "conservative".

There is a *very particular* type of right-wing group which really hates rail. I have sometimes suspected that these are better described as the automobile/gasoline/oil lobby, which has good reason to dislike rail. Because anti-rail views really don't seem to have any philosophical link with any other "right wing" belief, but they do have links with supporting oil extraction and sales. For some reason the oil lobby has become associated with the "right wing". Why, I don't know, or care really. Probably some historical accident. There are probably periods and places when they were associated with the "left wing".

Anyway, I can sort of see why the home of the Indy 500 might see passenger rail as a threat to the "automobile-centric" attitudes which help make the Indy 500 popular. For a while, GM execs didn't want people taking trains because they thought that would mean fewer automobile sales. At least that makes sense. It's the best I can come up with.
 
Do we know yet if the state is going to pay for any significant track improvements? As it stands, the HS is way too slow (5 hours) to compete with intercity bus service (~3 hours). This is made worse because the train is often late.

To me, that should be the first priority before operations shakeups, and getting new equipment.

I'm assuming that the plan to change control of the Hoosier State means that it will run separately of the Cardinal now? Would that mean that the Cardinal would shift to a detrain/receive only format north of IND (as is the case in other areas with LD trains and SD trains using the same stops)?
No, we do not know if IN DOT and the Governor are willing to consider providing funds for capital improvements. Even if they are willing to start a small freight and passenger rail capital program - and can do so without explicit authorization from the state legislature - it would be years before any track improvement projects could get started on construction. In the meantime, there are operational improvements that can be implemented such as a better schedule for Indiana stops and Corridor Capital is offering alternate old equipment in place of the Horizons.

I think as IN DOT and the communities along the route continue to provide subsidies to the HS, interest and support will grow in having also providing capital funds to tackle low hanging improvement projects for the CSX tracks in IN. Even a modest program, say $3 to $4 million a year, which is about VA has been providing to the Buckingham Branch railroad through its Short Line Preservation program for track and signal upgrades, over a period of years would pay for an incremental series of track upgrades.

We do not know what will happen to the Hoosier State if Corridor Capital provides alternate rolling stock to replace the Horizons and begins to consult with and discuss with IN DOT options for the HS. Maybe the HS stays as a 4 day a week service for the next several years, maybe it goes to 7 days a week, or maybe the real plan of IN DOT senior managers is to make a show of trying to cut costs for the HS so they have an excuse for killing the HS service entirely. We do NOT know. We can only speculate based on what we know so far.
 
Does anyone know where CC keeps their rolling stock. Their address is a office building in downtown Chicago.

Also from another forum, it sounds like the CC Hi-Levels aren't rebuilt (or even up to the 110mph limit they talk about) so they will be leasing some single level cars from someone else. CC will also be contracting out the maintenance to another contractor. Crews will be provided by Amtrak. So what exactly is CC doing, besides getting a paycheck?

peter
 
Indiana needs to study how North Carolina, California and Virginia do it so well!

Quickest way to success, you have to spend money to get established and eliminate the middle man that's in it for profit! Biz School 101!!!!
 
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The CCJPA contracts with the Bay Area Rapid Transit District (the operators of BART) for day-to-day management of the line
BART is a member of the CCJPA, not a contractor. It is the managing member.

This is like SamTrans, which is the managing member of the PCJPA.
 
Sorry to be late to this subject, but wondering what the deal is with Indiana taking over the running of the Hoosier State from Amtrak, and awarding it to another operator? From what I can glean so far, is that they are funding the train, and apparently are not satisfied with the way Amtrak is running it....either operationally, or cost-wise....is that the gist of it?

Without any other background info, I am wondering how Amtrak feels about this....good or bad? Are they sorry, or rather relieved to be freed from this operation?

And if they are sore about it, what if they don't support it, as in not providing equipment, locomotives, qualified T&E crews, or even the use of Chicago Union Station?

Imagine if the train had to perhaps wring a deal with Metra to use the LaSalle Street Station?

Lots of "what-ifs"........
 
Corridor Capital will just provide equipment for the Hoosier State. Amtrak will continue to actually run the train. What difference this makes to the bottom remains to be seen. The whole scheme doesn't seem very well thought out. However, other state-supported corridors may go up for bidders that include Amtrak and big time private operators like Keolis and Herzog. In the past, the freight railroads have indicated that they would simply like to deal with just Amtrak. That may change. But we could see multiple operators for the state services in the future. Amtrak is not guaranteed to hang on to those services. They will become like the commuter operations that Amtrak has won and lost over the decades.
 
I may be off base here, but a state awarding contracts such as this, opens up lots of possibilites for corruption...somebody's "brother-in-law" may get their pockets lined.....
 
Capital Corridor may not get the chance to provide equipment to the HS. The city of Indianapolis has decided to not provide $300K for the HS next fiscal year: Indy pulls support for passenger rail service. This may be it for the HS, but I would not rule out last minute political deals. Excerpt:

Passenger rail service between Chicago and Indianapolis might end before a new vendor gets the chance to take over the line and make good on its promises to dramatically improve service.

Last year, Indianapolis officials signed on for the one-year deal to subsidize the Amtrak line running between Indy and Chicago after Amtrak announced in 2012 that it would end its shorter routes, which meant Indiana’s last passenger line. Now they have announced they’re ending that subsidy.

“They have told me they are not interested in doing it next year, and take that as a final no,” said Bob Zier, director of multimodal program and planning for Indiana Department of Transportation.

Indianapolis’ announcement comes as the state tapped Corridor Capital to take over the Amtrak line running between the two cities with stops along the way, including in Lafayette. Corridor Capital promised changes ranging from cleaner cars, modest food service, Wi-Fi, and on-time service — goals that Amtrak was supposed to have reached by this time in order to continue to receive state, county and city support.
 
Say Goodnight Gracie! Hope the Hoosiers that don't fly will enjoy riding the Card or the Dog to CHI and the East Coast!!!

Penny wise and pound foolish!!!
 
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