Hoosier State/Iowa Pacific Transition Thread

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

Bob Dylan

50+ Year Amtrak Rider
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
23,539
Location
Austin Texas
There was a post on trainorders saying that the Bustitution happened on Monday CHI-IND because Amtrak didn't deadhead the IP equipment back to CHI on #51 for some reason???
 

jis

Engineer
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
29,392
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Bringing this back on topic, I "heard" elsewhere, but saw no proof, that IP has already had a bustitution for some reason. I'll post more if I learn anything about it.
It happened because Amtrak forgot to deadhead the equipment to position it for that run. I hope this was a genuine goofup and not something that was done intentionally, something that Amtrak has a sad history of indulging in when they lose out on something. Remember the silly performance that they put up after they lost the VRE contract?
 

Anderson

Engineer
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
9,721
Location
Virginia
Bringing this back on topic, I "heard" elsewhere, but saw no proof, that IP has already had a bustitution for some reason. I'll post more if I learn anything about it.
It happened because Amtrak forgot to deadhead the equipment to position it for that run. I hope this was a genuine goofup and not something that was done intentionally, something that Amtrak has a sad history of indulging in when they lose out on something. Remember the silly performance that they put up after they lost the VRE contract?
On the one hand, it was the first day and this whole thing came together at the last minute...it is entirely possible that someone goofed in briefing the crew about this. It happens, and they did sign an agreement with IP, after all.

That being said, I think there's a clear case for IP to take their service daily ASAP. Failing that, adding "extra legs" to avoid the deadheading might be necessary (though I think that would only go to 5x weekly).
 

jis

Engineer
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
29,392
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
Reading the discussion on trainorders one gets the impression that it was a remote Amtrak management decision to not do the deadhead that surprised everyone else, IP, CSX and even the Amtrak crew on location. So it would seem that a lack of situational awareness on part of Amtrak decision makers screwed up on a simple process. It happens.

Ed Ellis said OTOH, that they had a telephone call with all parties involved and everyone is now on the same page, and hopefully it won't happen again. Now the question is, who will have to eat the cost of all those buses caused by Amtrak goofup. :)
 

Anderson

Engineer
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
9,721
Location
Virginia
Reading the discussion on trainorders one gets the impression that it was a remote Amtrak management decision to not do the deadhead that surprised everyone else, IP, CSX and even the Amtrak crew on location. So it would seem that a lack of situational awareness on part of Amtrak decision makers screwed up on a simple process. It happens.

Ed Ellis said OTOH, that they had a telephone call with all parties involved and everyone is now on the same page, and hopefully it won't happen again. Now the question is, who will have to eat the cost of all those buses caused by Amtrak goofup. :)
Ideally it would be Amtrak; that said, I suspect there will be a cost split of some sort (Amtrak goofed on it but the net cost was likely limited)...this is probably going to end up actually being split between INDOT and Amtrak when it all comes out.

Also, I changed the name of the thread since the discussion has spilled far beyond the status of the train in April.
 

MrFSS

Engineer
Honored Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
9,712
Location
Central Kentucky
Now that Amtrak doesn't have the HS to use as a hospital train, The Cardinal has the duties.

From a Chicago railcam, this was this morning's train burdened down with a bunch of stuff going to Beech Grove.

Card 1.JPG

Card 2.JPG

Card 3.JPG
 

Bob Dylan

50+ Year Amtrak Rider
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
23,539
Location
Austin Texas
Thanks Tom, guess Beech Grove will only get shopped Cars three days a week now eh? More delays for the Card in Indy too!
 

John Bobinyec

Conductor
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
1,867
Location
CYN
I have a couple of questions about operations.

On days that the Cardinal runs between Indianapolis and Chicago, are the IP cars tacked onto it or do the passengers just ride in the Amtrak cars?

On days that the Hoosier State runs, how are the Amtrak crews handled? I remember reading something a while back about how the crew which took the train to Chicago was also expected to take it back to Indianapolis but frequently ran out of time, thereby losing time waiting for a recrew enroute.

jb
 

jis

Engineer
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
29,392
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
The answer to the first question is that the IP consists is deadheaded attached to the Cardinal while the passengers ride in the Cardinal. INDOT's contract with IP is to use their consists for 4 trips each way per week using their OBS crew. So naturally when the consist is deadheaded on a Cardinal day there is no OBS crew on duty and hence no one gets to ride in those cars.

I don't know much bout how Amtrak T&E crew is allocated. There is apparently an issue of allocating additional T&E crew on the deadhead days, which is what caused that one bustitution.
 

John Bobinyec

Conductor
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
1,867
Location
CYN
Yikes. What a mess. By my reckoning, here's the schedule:

Sun: 851 runs IND to CHI and returns as 850

Mon: 51 deadheads the IP consist from IND to CHI

850 runs CHI to IND under its own power

Tue: 851 runs IND to CHI under its own power

50 deadheads the IP consist from CHI to IND

Wed: 851 runs IND to CHI and returns as 850

Thu: IP consist reposes in IND

Fri: 851 runs IND to CHI and then returns as 850

Sat: IP consist reposes in IND

jb
 

Lonestar648

Engineer
AU Supporter
Joined
May 17, 2015
Messages
2,803
I don't see how this is saving anyone any costs, or efficiency, plus there is the additional wear and tear on the deadheading consist.
 

John Bobinyec

Conductor
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
1,867
Location
CYN
So what do they do on Monday when 51 is late? Seems like for the money that IP has to pay Amtrak to switch the train at IND and CHI they would do better to just pay a crew to run it (with passengers) to CHI - especially if 51 is late.

Same thing on Tuesday - run it with a crew and passengers as a separate train but 10 minutes in front of or behind 50.

The switching that is done at both IND and CHI has to be costing something.

jb
 

jis

Engineer
AU Lifetime Supporter
Gathering Team Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
29,392
Location
Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
I suggest you write in your good suggestions to InDOT, or even pm eee on trainorders, or message Ed Ellis on Facebook, if you really wish someone to take it on and do something about it
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jebr

Enthusiastic Transit Rider
Staff member
Administator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 23, 2012
Messages
4,480
Location
"The Last Great City of the East," St. Paul, MN
The food selection actually looks pretty good. Definitely better than the standard cafe car fare on Amtrak (a special meal each night? Eggs with hashbrowns? Imagine that sort of food on a Regional!)
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
3,089
There is absolutely no logical reason for me to ever take this train, but after looking at the menu, I will have to find one. Plus, perhaps, send a snarky letter to Amtrak saying "How about giving us a menu like the Hoosier State has?"
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
3,089
I just tried to sign up for their newsletter, but it says I have to confirm in an email they sent me (but I didn't receive an email). Did this happen to anyone else? It is, of course, not critical that I receive their newsletter, but I thought it might suggest some trip that would be a good excuse to take that train and have a delicious breakfast while riding it! :p
 

MrFSS

Engineer
Honored Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
9,712
Location
Central Kentucky
I just tried to sign up for their newsletter, but it says I have to confirm in an email they sent me (but I didn't receive an email). Did this happen to anyone else? It is, of course, not critical that I receive their newsletter, but I thought it might suggest some trip that would be a good excuse to take that train and have a delicious breakfast while riding it! :p
I signed up for it and the confirming email came back to me immediately and clicking on the confirm button in the email took me back and said I was signed up.

Do you have another email you could try, check your spam folder?
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
3,089
Thanks, MrFSS--

I just tried it again and immediately got two emails, so the first one must have been delayed in the electronic air somewhere. I clicked the confirm button and am now signed up.

Of course, I can get eggs and hash browns in any south Jersey diner, but the view isn't anywhere near as good as the train view would be! :p
 

Bob Dylan

50+ Year Amtrak Rider
Joined
May 31, 2009
Messages
23,539
Location
Austin Texas
Thanks, MrFSS--

I just tried it again and immediately got two emails, so the first one must have been delayed in the electronic air somewhere. I clicked the confirm button and am now signed up.

Of course, I can get eggs and hash browns in any south Jersey diner, but the view isn't anywhere near as good as the train view would be! :p
Especially the view from a Dome Car,!!
 
Top