How Covid safe are Amtrak sleepers?

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Ferroequinologist

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
374
Some of Amtrak's sleepers, especially the Superliners, are in poor shape with upholstery that should have been replaced twenty or more years ago. Just how thoroughly cleaned are they? Do attendants wear disposable gloves every time they clean a compartment and make ups beds? The seats alone look so dirty and worn. Hard to believe they've really been cleaned. Anyone have any facts?
 
I have a UV light and brought it with me on my recent trip and "wanded" the fabric seats before I sat down. I also brought clorox hydrogen peroxide wipes with me and wiped all non-fabric surfaces in my room and the table and booth in the dining car.
 
I have a UV light and brought it with me on my recent trip and "wanded" the fabric seats before I sat down. I also brought clorox hydrogen peroxide wipes with me and wipes all non-fabric surfaces in my room and the table and booth in the dining car.
How "clean" were the Trains you rode?

My day trip on #22/#21 had Old Ratty equipment that was Filthy!( Superliner 2s )including the Lounge Car.( I didn't go into the Diner/ First Class Lounge)
 
How "clean" were the Trains you rode?

My day trip on #22/#21 had Old Ratty equipment that was Filthy!( Superliner 2s )including the Lounge Car.( I didn't go into the Diner/ First Class Lounge)
I did not see any difference in the equipment on the Silvers. The equipment was old but not filthy, in my opinion.
 
Personally, I’m not concerned about the virus on surfaces. I’m more concerned about being close to someone for an extended time, especially if they don’t wear a mask or wear one properly.
I couldn't agree more. To the best of my knowledge the primary infection vector remains compromised exhalation. One of the most common admission answers shared by infected patients is having recently visited an indoor bar, restaurant, or gathering with masks removed. If indirect surface contact was a common transmission method the answers would be different. This is why wearing masks correctly, maintaining extra distance, and meeting in well ventilated areas is more important than trying to spray everything down. Consumer grade cleansers are not designed to disinfect carpet or cloth (such as found on Amtrak) and the industrial fumigants that can come with their own risks to human health.
 
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Haven't we known for generations that touching contaminated surfaces and then touching our eyes, mouth or nose can lead to colds or influenza? Long before this pandemic I have been careful about hand washing. I wouldn't underestimate its importance. Airlines are taking major efforts to sanitize seats - and even Amtrak in some photos I saw has people spraying coaches. Do they do this in the sleepers? And if so, how often? The ratty looking, stained upholstery in Amtrak's sleeping car compartments alarms me. Wait staff in restaurants and housekeepers in hotels are required to wear disposable gloves. Do Amtrak's sleeping car attendants do the same? Shouldn't they observe the same standards of any good hotel or restaurant?
 
If it makes you feel better, sleeper pax at Denver had to wait in line, after coach pax were sent ahead to board, because they were preparing the rooms for us. I’m assuming that meant “Covid cleaning”.

I’m curious. Do you avoid touching the clothes you’re wearing with your hands? Do you wash your hands if you do touch them during the day?
 
There are sprays, such as lysol spray disinfectant that afaik can be used on soft surfaces. The germs and viruses may be knocked out, but they would still be dirty.
Because there are people with allergies and asthma that could be adversely affected by aerosol sprays, passengers should avoid "spraying" everything in sight.
 
If it makes you feel better, sleeper pax at Denver had to wait in line, after coach pax were sent ahead to board, because they were preparing the rooms for us. I’m assuming that meant “Covid cleaning”.

I’m curious. Do you avoid touching the clothes you’re wearing with your hands? Do you wash your hands if you do touch them during the day?
This reminds me of a humorous video I saw where a man is trying to wash his hands properly and finds that he has to touch a lot of stuff to do so and he is getting upset and re-washing his hands, etc. I suspect at the beginning of this pandemic we have all gone through his experience.
 
"How Covid safe are Amtrak sleepers?" As Hamlet once said, "That is the question." But what is the answer?

I see a lot of discussion of surface cleaning, from Amtrak and others, and it's all well and good for hygiene and cosmetic reasons. For Covid, not so much.

Transmission via surfaces was always a theoretical means of transmission, because the virus could live on surfaces and be transported to the face by touch. But in sufficient amounts and in a viable state to cause disease? Unknown. Still, best to be careful.

Then came droplets (particles 5 microns or greater). For sure droplets expelled in the air carry the virus. So wear a mask, social distance and keep 6 feet apart. Why? Because droplets are relatively large and heavy, gravity pulls them to the ground and generally they don't travel through the air for distances greater than 6 feet. So far so good.

Except that leaves aerosols (particles less than 5 microns). Big debate among scientists, WHO and CDC whether the virus is transmitted via aerosols. At first no, then maybe, now the emerging scientific consensus is yes.

How far do aerosols travel? Very far. And they linger in the air and they waft around. Think cigarette smoke. If someone is smoking at one end of the Viewliner sleeper car (Heaven forbid!) and you were seated at the other, you could probably smell the smoke. These are aerosols. Aerosols can linger in the air (e.g. in the corridor), infiltrate into rooms even when the door is closed through openings and cracks (unless the room is hermetically sealed, which it is not), pass through most non-surgical masks, and I doubt anyone (including Amtrak) can say whether Amtrak's air filtration systems are adequate to filter them out. entirely.

Bottom line, I wouldn't be prepared to say that Amtrak sleepers are "safe" until I was sure aerosols were not a problem on board. I'm not there yet. To quote Hamlet again, "there's the rub."
 
Because there are people with allergies and asthma that could be adversely affected by aerosol sprays, passengers should avoid "spraying" everything in sight.
That's a good point, even the solutions used in commercial sprayers like the electrostatic ones that have become common are not generally good that way either. I generally use disinfectant wipes on hard surfaces, and only spray what I'm sitting on or will have contact with. Besides the allergy or sensitivity issue, the known good ones are a) expensive, and b) still scarce in the stores
 
I am amazed at the mildew that forms on my house exterior from the humidity expelled through our bedroom window. Do these droplets carry disease? I would not feel safe sleeping in a Roomette just a couple feet away from another person, and think I would have to spring for a Bedroom.
 
This reminds me of a humorous video I saw where a man is trying to wash his hands properly and finds that he has to touch a lot of stuff to do so and he is getting upset and re-washing his hands, etc. I suspect at the beginning of this pandemic we have all gone through his experience.
I think of this every day. We remodeled our kitchen about fifteen years ago, and I stupidly didn't think of installing a touchless faucet at the sink. Now, every time I have to wash my hands--which in preparing food is all the time--I end up first touching the faucet to turn it on, then washing my hands, then having to clean up the faucet so that the next person innocently drawing a glass of water doesn't get food poisoning!

Hmmm...maybe when my husband asks me what I want for Christmas, instead of saying "Nothing, honey," I'll ask him to install a touchless faucet for me!
 
From what I understand, aerosols can and do waft around longer than larger droplets, but getting enough of a viral load to actually get the infection is most likely in a room without ventilation or partitions. Even then, the rate of infection is highest near an infected person, and much lower farther away. Keeping the doors to roomettes and bedrooms closed will physically block a significant amount of any aerosols--again, think of the smoke analogy. If someone were smoking in a bedroom (hypo only!!) and you were in another bedroom, you could reduce the smell considerably if you closed your door, which would indicate that a good deal of the particulate matter in smoke was being physically prevented from coming in. And keep in mind that the particulate matter in cigarette smoke is much smaller than the aerosols thought to be infectious in COVID. Physical blocking would be more effective in stopping virus-leaden aerosols than in blocking smoke particles.

Having said that, while I think bedrooms and roomettes are likely to be safer than, say, open vehicles like airplanes, in terms of aerosol dispersion, I still would not travel by train until the pandemic is better controlled unless the travel was very important to me. YMMV of course both as to the risk assessment and as to the importance of travel.
 
A sleeper is probably pretty safe if you have a bedroom and stay locked inside the entire time. Once you walk around the train at all, it’s as risky as anywhere else you’re in a small enclosed box with other people.

If you could count on sleeper attendants to bring you food and drinks to your room it would help.

Since the mask requirements, I don’t think there have been any cases linked to Amtrak trains, so perhaps it’s pretty safe.
 
Because there are people with allergies and asthma that could be adversely affected by aerosol sprays, passengers should avoid "spraying" everything in sight.

I've been traveling with a spray bottle of 75% (150 proof) alcohol. No residue, and little or no allergy/asthma issues, as far as I know.
 
The Amtrak video states the air is circulated through a filter. It doesn't give any indication how effective the filter is in removing aerosols, which are defined as particles less than 5 microns in diameter. They could just move through the filter and return to the car -- or not. Who knows?

It also doesn't say anything about how often the filters are cleaned or replaced, or how their effectiveness is degraded by usage over time in service. I imagine this might vary e.g. on a long cross country trip, and also by the age and state of repair of the individual carriages.

I think much more detailed information would be needed, at least to satisfy me, that Amtrak's filtration and recirculation are adequate to make the cars "safe" during the pandemic. There's no question Amtrak is seeking to give that impression, but to me it seems unjustified so far.
 
It doesn't give any indication how effective the filter is in removing aerosols, which are defined as particles less than 5 microns in diameter. They could just move through the filter and return to the car -- or not. Who knows?
The Acela was designed in a place and time when HEPA filters were common for commercial applications, but Superliners were designed before that level of filtering and duct work were in regular use. That's where my concern lies.
 
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I think much more detailed information would be needed, at least to satisfy me, that Amtrak's filtration and recirculation are adequate to make the cars "safe" during the pandemic. There's no question Amtrak is seeking to give that impression, but to me it seems unjustified so far.

And that is how it should be. If you are not comfortable with their efforts, stay off the trains.

Of course, the same could be said of Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot or any other store, restaurant or business people enter. Very little is disclosed about their particular air circulation - so each person has to decide if they feel comfortable going there.

Since the mask requirements, I don’t think there have been any cases linked to Amtrak trains, so perhaps it’s pretty safe.

This is a good point. I have not heard of any issues since the mask requirement - and things like this usually do make the news.


[Slightly Off-Topic]
Not long after watching the Amtrak Air Filtration video I saw a commercial on TV for Rybelsus and the video style of animation was the same
[/Slightly Off Topic]
 
The Amtrak video states the air is circulated through a filter. It doesn't give any indication how effective the filter is in removing aerosols, which are defined as particles less than 5 microns in diameter. They could just move through the filter and return to the car -- or not. Who knows?
That would be HEPA. I thought someone had posted in some thread here that an Amtrak exec or spokesperson had stated that Amtrak cars were not equipped with HEPA filters, and could not reasonable be retrofitted to use them.
 
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