As I will be traveling the Cardinal route east in August I have been watching it pretty regulary on it's arrival times and such and have come to grips with the idea of getting to my destination isn't going to happen at the scheduled 8:54pm as per Amtrak's arrival time. While I am okay with an hour or so lateness, over the past couple of trips I have seen 3+ hour lateness and this past trip almost 4+ hours being late. I will be returning via the Penn/Capital Limited and Cardinal, and have watched those and they stay within an hour or arrival times. So is there nothing Amtrak can do to improve the Cardinal's east bound trip? Shouldn't passangers be told up front when purchasing a ticket that this train on average runs anywhere from 1.5-3 hours late for stops in WVA on east? Does Amtrak offer any kind of compesation for excessivly late trains?
How much of a delay is acceptable
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Linda T
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Yeah, I'd love to see her schedule changed, and it was discussed here on the forum a few weeks ago (edited to add, I see you were the OP on that thread!). The Card is my home train and she is always running late, and unfortunately there is no compensation for it. The only time there's compensation for travel is when the train you're already on misses a guaranteed connection.
The last time I was on her a few weeks ago the 50 was early into Cincinnati, a bummer -- zone change. I was awakened and moved to my coach seat.
And she was early into HUN where I had to wait for my husband. The 51 is just as bad, if not worse than the 50. I, too, will be taking her in August from HUN to NYP, and then again in October from HUN to CVS then the Crescent to AL. The only thing I can basically guarantee myself is there'll be at least a 1 hour delay. Of course I'll be bringing the 51 back each time. So why was the Cardinal 4.5 hours late yesterday into Penn Station?
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Ispolkom
Engineer
You're absolutely right. When I take the Cardinal I assume that it will be about 3 hours late to Washington, and I've rarely been disappointed. Don't expect Amtrak to compensate you for a late arrival. They won't, and, after all, airlines don't either.
At least in my experience.
At least in my experience.
the_traveler
Engineer
I don't really care how late a train is! I'm just happy to arrive safe and sound!
And if the connection is guaranteed and is missed, it's Amtrak's responsibility to get you to your destination - including paying for a hotel if need be.
After all, if driving and you get caught in a traffic jam for a few hours, do you ask the state DOT for compensation?
After all, if driving and you get caught in a traffic jam for a few hours, do you ask the state DOT for compensation?
Linda T
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I agree. I loved coming in late on the California Zephyr last August -- 10 hours!!! We missed our connection on the Cardinal and Amtrak put us up for two nights in a plush Chicago hotel, gave us cab fare back and forth, and $30/day per person for food (lots of Subway sandwiches). Then to top it all off, a roomette opened up on the Cardinal and we got to come home in a sleeper! I mean, I actually prayed to be too late into Chicago a few weeks ago, and of course we were early. Dang I gotta miss a gc to the Cardinal, but how... hmm...I don't really care how late a train is! I'm just happy to arrive safe and sound!And if the connection is guaranteed and is missed, it's Amtrak's responsibility to get you to your destination - including paying for a hotel if need be.
After all, if driving and you get caught in a traffic jam for a few hours, do you ask the state DOT for compensation?
Again I can understand "reasonable" delays, but to me when you are averaging over 2+ hours in delay's then something needs to be addressed. I can't get a direct reason why the 50 is always so delayed going east from Amtrak, or why the scheduled arrival times have not been adusted since the delays are a repeated issues. It's not going to deter me from my trip, but in the future I will consider other routes going east that don't run as late.
Wow, you got lucky with the room opening up at the last minute. And to have the ability to stay in Chicago for 2 days.I agree. I loved coming in late on the California Zephyr last August -- 10 hours!!! We missed our connection on the Cardinal and Amtrak put us up for two nights in a plush Chicago hotel, gave us cab fare back and forth, and $30/day per person for food (lots of Subway sandwiches). Then to top it all off, a roomette opened up on the Cardinal and we got to come home in a sleeper! I mean, I actually prayed to be too late into Chicago a few weeks ago, and of course we were early. Dang I gotta miss a gc to the Cardinal, but how... hmm...I don't really care how late a train is! I'm just happy to arrive safe and sound!And if the connection is guaranteed and is missed, it's Amtrak's responsibility to get you to your destination - including paying for a hotel if need be.
After all, if driving and you get caught in a traffic jam for a few hours, do you ask the state DOT for compensation?
As to the OP, usually Amtrak won't give out any compensation for simply a late train. If it is significant, they might. I mean significant being more than 6 or 8 hours late. But that doesn't mean you can't try. You can always call customer service and see if they'll do anything for you.
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Operationally the direct reason for delays eastbound is that on the Buckingham Branch Railroad the eastbound Cardinal is the only through train operating eastbound in the face of a parade of coal empties heading westbound. BBRR operates "directionally" carrying only westbound traffic of coal empties from the Port of Norfolk to the coal fields. The corresponding eastbound traffic travels on the more southerly line through Lynnchburg to the Port of Norfolk. In addition none of the sidings on BBRR are long enough to hold an entire coal train, so it is the Cardinal that goes in the hole when an opposing coal train comes by. Now whether that is the right thing to be happening and whether CSX and BBRR should be sued or what or whether Amtrak should change schedules, stop running the Card etc. are all separate issues. As I said, operationally this is what is happening.
If that is the issue, can't it be worked out to where you say maximize the space? I mean we know that Amtrak will be needing those lines in that area from X to X on these days. Couldn't the coal folk work around that or, say couldn't Amtrak reschedule the Cardinal to where it would pass through that area when the least chance of conflict would occur?
Since this a recurring thread, my comment is: Everyone should ride the Cardinal (#50East Bound has the best Schedule for daylight viewing) at least once, WHEN THEY ARENT IN A HURRY!! (use Amsnag as this is a three times a week/popular Train mostly Sold Out @ High Buckets!)
When you are in a Hurry to get to the NEC catch the Cap or if going to NYP or BOS the LSL!
I agree with Dave, if a LD Train is Late, Great! ^_^ If in a real hurry, TSA has something for you @ the Nearest Prison, er Airport!! :help:
When you are in a Hurry to get to the NEC catch the Cap or if going to NYP or BOS the LSL!
I agree with Dave, if a LD Train is Late, Great! ^_^ If in a real hurry, TSA has something for you @ the Nearest Prison, er Airport!! :help:
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the_traveler
Engineer
I believe the state of Virginia is working with the Buckingham Branch to (I believe) double track that section. That should help somewhat with the times.
No, Virginia is not paying to double track the 116 miles of the BB tracks from East Gordonsville to Clifton Forge. THAT would be a tad expensive! VA is providing 70% of the funds for maintenance, repair, track and signal upgrades of that BB line and the Orange Subdivision line from East Gordonsville to Orange. The issue is who might pay for extending the too short sidings on the BB line to allow circa 8,000 ft long empty westbound CSX coal trains to pull over. One would hope that Amtrak is at least talking to VA, CSX, BB about how much extending a couple of the sidings would cost and who would share in the costs.
As I understand it, the track and signal upgrades that are being done for the BB line will remove a lot of slow orders, which should allow the Cardinals to cut trip times over the BB tracks from Orange to CVS to Clifton Forge. The average speed of the westbound #51 schedule from Culpepper to Clifton Forge is 39 mph, so it is running on a lot of slow track. After better OTP umbers last fall, the trip times for the Cardinals have taken a real hit, especially the eastbound #50, in the past several months. Question is whether these delays could in part be caused by current track and signal work projects on the BB line?
If your destination is NYC, and you are coming from Chicago or even Indy, I really don't know why you would chose the Cardinal. For a few dollars more and even with a layover in Chicago, you still arrive in NYC sooner then with the Cardinal.
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Does it ever occur to you that maybe the rest of the country didn't retire on the same day you did?
I guess my tolerance for delays really depends on the situation - with the Wolverine and the Norfolk Southern-caused delays, I was aware of the situation (and the culprit) beforehand and as such didn't get upset about it - 6 hrs on a train is still more comfortable that 4.5 hours on a bus/in a car! Also, I tend to not mind delays that allow me to sleep a little more - for example, I'd personally actually be happy if when returning on the CL WAS-TOL, I got into TOL at 6:30am instead of 5am (though the CHI-bound passengers likely wouldn't be as pleased). I actually had a ~2 hr delay like this on my SWC trip CHI-LAX, and really didn't mind (if anything, I actually appreciated the extra time to get up in the morning).
However, delays that cause me to miss sleep, connections, and/or work would be less desirable - for example, last Thursday's #355 Wolverine got into CHI at 3:15 am instead of the scheduled 11:07pm. Were I on that train (I was actually on Friday's #355 instead, which was only 30 min late), I'd probably be calling Amtrak asking for some kind of compensation. On an LD train, I could see myself being a bit more tolerant of this length of delay, but the Wolverine is only a ~6hr route PNT-CHI (and the trip so delayed was actually post-returning to normal schedule...)
However, delays that cause me to miss sleep, connections, and/or work would be less desirable - for example, last Thursday's #355 Wolverine got into CHI at 3:15 am instead of the scheduled 11:07pm. Were I on that train (I was actually on Friday's #355 instead, which was only 30 min late), I'd probably be calling Amtrak asking for some kind of compensation. On an LD train, I could see myself being a bit more tolerant of this length of delay, but the Wolverine is only a ~6hr route PNT-CHI (and the trip so delayed was actually post-returning to normal schedule...)
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