How to contact Customer Relations while on the train?

[Texan Eagle]

I am currently on north bound Coast Starlight. We started from LAX and immediately the air conditioning in my coach car went kaput (do they not inspect the cars before starting?)

After sitting three hours in suffocating heat I asked our car attendant if this will be fixed and he says nope can't do anything till Oakland. I asked him if I can move to other coach that is half empty and he tells me no they coach is for overnight passengers.

At Santa Barbara I'm out on the platform taking pics of the train and this attendant comes up from behind and says- are you taking my picture? If you take my picture I can remove you from the train, telling you.

This is a new low for me of crew behavior and I want to report this. What's the best way to go about it?

 

[Steve4031]

I've tried to call customer service while on board and gotten no immediate correction. Just advisement to call after trip to get a refund.

I suggest speaking with the conductor and ask to. be moved to other car. The problem is that once one moves from your car all will want to move. This will disrupt the boarding process down line as pax are grouped by destination. If you have a health condition that might help get you moved. If not, I would spend more time in the lounge car.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

You ask about contacting Customer Relations while still on the train. I have to ask if you are really asking if Customer Relations has some method of directly contacting your car's attendant on the train, and instructing him/her to move you to another car (or take some other action)?

I don't think that under any real circumstance, that Customer Relations has the means, nor the mission, to ever do anything of the sort.

As to taking pictures of people, against their wishes, I would say that they do have a right to object, and in this case, to take reasonable action to prevent it.

 

[Steve4031]

The OP stated he was taking a picture of the train while it was at the station. This normally includes pax and anybody else on the platform while the train is in the station. Pax taking photos next to the train or with the train in the background are normal activities and iirc do not violate the official photo policy. The attendant had no business acting in the manner described.

Hypothetically, if there had been a verbal debate between the OP and attendant about being moved with comments about filing complaints, then the attendant would have a concern about photos.

I try to avoid photographing employees. If I want a photo of a particular car or engine I'll ask permission first. Usually they just move if they want to be out of the photo.

 

[Albo5000]

"Taking photographs of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is a constitutional right – and that includes federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties. " From ACLU.org

Basically, if anyone is in a public place (a mall, a train station, on a public sidewalk) you have a legal right to take their photo without protest or consent. If the photographer uses non-public easements or enters into properly marked private areas, then photographing individuals would require consent prior. This is our 1st amendment right FYI.

If the person just doesn't want to be photographed, they shouldn't be in a public space. But you aren't going to call the police and wait for them to tell the attendant they are wrong, you're better off just doing what your told and not causing a scene so you don't unjustly get throw off the train.

Sounds like you need to get the attendants name and report them to Amtrak for threatening you. They have no say over the condition of the equipment they are assigned to, so I would make a separate complaint about the train's HVAC system.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Spotty network so replying all together-

I would happily camp in observation car but it is completely full, and half the people hogging the seats are not even looking outside, they are there to leech on the free wi-fi from business class car next door.

I was not even trying to take a picture of the attendant, just minding my own business taking pics of the train and station so I see no reason what got him so defensive to come and tell me about him having the power to throw me off the train.

The conductor finally allowed moving people one car up but that's full with no ocean side window seats, and I'm taking this trip solely to see the views, I specially went to LA just to take train back up to SF, so that's a bummer.

 

[PVD]

A platform may not always be a public place as it may be restricted to ticketed passengers. Of course, you were one so that would not be a problem.

Amtrak photography policy is clearly stated on their website, and is not particularly onerous. That being said, individual employees have not always followed it.

https://www.amtrak.com/photography-video-recording-policy

 

[Steve4031]

I find coach class to be unpredictable. You never know how crowded or in crowded. I wish I had thought to suggest business class on the other thread.

 

[KmH]

As to taking pictures of people, against their wishes, I would say that they do have a right to object, and in this case, to take reasonable action to prevent it.

On the train the Conductor would be a point of contact regarding a Customer Service issue.

That doesn't mean of course that the Conductor can solve the problem.

As far as here in the USA.

Yep. They have a right to object.

But in public one cannot claim having a reasonable expectation of privacy and there is no reasonable action one could take to prevent someone taking a photo of them.

The TA (train attendant) made up their own rule about their photo being taken being grounds for having a passenger removed from the train.

And it is the Conductor that determines if anyone will be put off the train, not a TA.

Amtrak should be notified regarding what that TA said.

Court precedents abound. See the 1st and 4th amendments to the US Constitution for details.

Actually court cases abound. Cops have been finding out the hard way that making stuff up as it's convenient for them can backfire.

http://www.photoattorney.com/

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/photographers-what-do-if-you-are-stopped-or-detained-taking-photographs?redirect=free-speech/know-your-rights-photographers

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

A biggie regarding 'street' photography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nussenzweig_v._DiCorcia

 

[Devil's Advocate]

In my experience Amtrak OBS really couldn't care less about the experiences of coach passengers. Complain all you want, and maybe you'll even get a voucher out of it after the fact, but that doesn't change the fact that the OBS simply do not care. Even though I ride sleeper class almost exclusively [these days] I still cringe at the way Amtrak continues to [treat] coach passengers.

[ETA items in brackets]

 

[Texan Eagle]

I cannot agree more with Devil's Advocate- there is a day and night difference in how the staff treats coach pax vs sleeper pax. Later in my journey I ended up going to the PPC and asked the lady at the bar if I can partake in wine tasting as a coach passenger and she said she will allow it. So I ended up spending an hour in PPC and the attendant and conductor were both extremely polite and friendly with the PPC passengers.

I wish Amtrak would care a little bit for the coach pax.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Ideally that Coach Attendant would be fired by the end of that journey if not sooner. There is no reason or excuse for substandard and irregular customer service and hopefully Amtrak President Wick Moorman will strive to create 100% top quality customer service.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Being in coach is a completely different experience than being in a sleeper. Not to say all of the Coach Attendants are bad as I've had some exceptionally good ones. The problem is when they go on a power trip.

My worst experience was in the lower level when I had just gotten on the train. I was checking the seat because at that time there were a lot of them that were not working properly. At that point, I was the only one in the LL. The CA came in and started yelling at me and telling me I could not take up two seats (my things were on the other seat at that point). I explained that I just wanted to make sure the seat worked. She continued yelling and saying she wanted two people in each seat. Finally,another lady came on and the CA said she wanted her to sit next to me. As the CA continued on her rant, the other lady slid behind her and sat elsewhere.

The other lady and I were the only two people on that LL until further in the trip. Later in the trip, we heard her out in the hallway yelling at another lady about something or another. Still later she claimed another person had pushed her down the stairs. I don't know if she was on a power trip or if she was just psychotic, but now, years later, I can't get over the taste of how bad a CA can be.

Please note that this was many years ago. I hope that now there is a better personnel selection process in place.

 

[neroden]

I am currently on north bound Coast Starlight. We started from LAX and immediately the air conditioning in my coach car went kaput (do they not inspect the cars before starting?)

After sitting three hours in suffocating heat I asked our car attendant if this will be fixed and he says nope can't do anything till Oakland. I asked him if I can move to other coach that is half empty and he tells me no they coach is for overnight passengers.

At Santa Barbara I'm out on the platform taking pics of the train and this attendant comes up from behind and says- are you taking my picture? If you take my picture I can remove you from the train, telling you.

This is a new low for me of crew behavior and I want to report this. What's the best way to go about it?

Cellphone. For reporting it so that the offending crew member gets fired later.

If you want to get it changed immediately, your only chance is to go to the conductor.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Does anyone know what is the obsession among coach attendants to lie about how full the train is going to be even when it's not, and they have the exact numbers on their manifest on a fully reserved train? I experienced this yet again on Starlight yesterday. After giving up on the attendant letting me move out from coach with malfunctioning AC, I decided to just move myself. Walked ti the next car after San Luis Obispo, found about the half the coach empty so took my seat check and put it over a pair of empty seats and sat there. Within an hour, attendant of this coach comes and yells at me that he needs every single seat from Salinas and I should get out of there. I found it hard to believe that Salinas would board 30+ passengers but oh well. I moved out and went back to check after Salinas and we had 21 seats empty in the section he claimed will get completely full. Yes

Yea, no, I don't believe you got 21 no-shows from a small station all at once.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Ideally that Coach Attendant would be fired by the end of that journey if not sooner.

I disagree that the Coach Attendant is personally responsible for the maintenance and proper operation of the HVAC system.

 

[Ronbo]

I find coach class to be unpredictable. You never know how crowded or in crowded. I wish I had thought to suggest business class on the other thread.

I did suggest business class on the previous thread by Texan Eagle, but apparently not used. Is upgrading to BC allowed while on the train? That's what I would have done in this case, rather than just trying to be moved to a different coach car.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Ideally that Coach Attendant would be fired by the end of that journey if not sooner.

I disagree that the Coach Attendant is personally responsible for the maintenance and proper operation of the HVAC system.

Who suggested that? If you find that type of behavior acceptable for a customer service position than more power to you. Ha.

The coach attendant should have moved all passengers possible to a car with working AC. Period.

 

[Texan Eagle]

I find coach class to be unpredictable. You never know how crowded or in crowded. I wish I had thought to suggest business class on the other thread.

I did suggest business class on the previous thread by Texan Eagle, but apparently not used. Is upgrading to BC allowed while on the train? That's what I would have done in this case, rather than just trying to be moved to a different coach car.

Why would I pay an extra $50 or so because of Amtrak's lack of maintenance? The BC coach is literally just another exactly identical coach car, I walked through it, and there is no difference. Sure it had a working AC, but so did 3 out of 4 other coach cars.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Ideally that Coach Attendant would be fired by the end of that journey if not sooner.

I disagree that the Coach Attendant is personally responsible for the maintenance and proper operation of the HVAC system.

I do not blame the coach attendant for malfunctioning HVAC, that blame is solely Amtrak's. This was not a quick turnaround train- the Starlight consist sits in LAX all night, so can they not do something as basic as checking the HVAC works in every car before putting the train out in service? Remember, the HVAC did not break down en route, it was not working from the start. The crew initially shrugged it off with "it will get better in some time", so we all thought maybe they turned it on late so it is taking time to cool the car, but that never happened.

I do blame the coach attendant for sitting around in his two seats not willing to show any kind of proactive desire to make life comfortable for passengers in his car. His response was, "we have rules that we sit passengers by destination, there is nothing you can do". First of all, these "rules" are also made up by the crew for their own ease of job, if Amtrak had actual rules about seating passengers by destinations, they would assign seat numbers at the time of booking like rail systems in every other civilized countries (and heck even third world) do.

Even if they had rules, you are in the train to make a call based on your best judgement, if we were to go solely by word of the written rule, why do we even need an attendant in coach? Everyone can read the rules and seat themselves. My gripe with the attendant is about that "I don't give a damn" attitude.

 

[PerRock]

Ideally that Coach Attendant would be fired by the end of that journey if not sooner.

I disagree that the Coach Attendant is personally responsible for the maintenance and proper operation of the HVAC system.

if Amtrak had actual rules about seating passengers by destinations, they would assign seat numbers at the time of booking like rail systems in every other civilized countries (and heck even third world) do.

Actually most rail systems in the world use open seating. Or at the least will pre-assign you to a selection of cars.

peter

 

[KmH]

Amtrak does have rules regarding keeping track of passengers so passengers don't stay on the train past the destination they paid to travel to - a 'carry by'.

Seating coach passengers together that are supposed to get off the train at the same stop makes avoiding a 'carry by' much easier, and smart.

The Service Standards manual says the TA-C (Train Attendant - Coach) should let boarding passengers know what destinations are assigned to the car a coach passenger is boarding (pg, 6-77 Service Standards manual #8).

Passengers boarding between 10pm and 7am are to be directed to a specific seat number. (pg. 6-79)
The TA-C is also supposed to update the coach car(s) seating diagram as the Conductor or Assistant Conductor makes the ticket lift and as passengers got off the train .

The TA-C is expected to prepare passengers for detraining at least 20 minutes prior to arrival at their destination station, to notify the Conductor immediately if they can't find a passenger that should be getting off the train, and if a passenger fails to detrain at their stop (a carry-by) to immediately notify the Conductor.

One TA-C is expected to care for up to 150 coach passengers, even if there are up to 4 coach cars.

A 2nd TA-C is only assigned if the number of passengers will exceed 151 for at least four (4) hours of daylight travel and there are up to 4 coach cars.

A 3rd TA-C is only assigned once 301 passengers will be in coach for at least four (4) hours of daylight travel and there are 5 or 6 coach cars. (pg, 6-74).

No doubt. Some TA-Cs do a pretty poor job. There is a railroad workers union.
Most do an OK job, but nothing to give kudos for.
A few TA-Cs do a very good job.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Actually most rail systems in the world use open seating. Or at the least will pre-assign you to a selection of cars.

peter

In the last five years I have taken trains in China, Japan, India, Turkey, Peru and in each case we were given an assigned seat number in advance. It is not rocket science. Amtrak needs to either honor open seating in the true sense of the word, or end the pretense of open seating and start assigning seat numbers at booking time to make life easier for the coach attendants who will anyway enforce seat assignment eventually. That will take away some of the power tripping attitude that some coach attendants have developed.

 

[Ryan]

I'm curious how you can jump to the conclusion that a single failed A/C unit means that Amtrak doesn't to pre trip inspections (they do) or do maintenance (they do).

 

[MARC Rider]

Amtrak does have rules regarding keeping track of passengers so passengers don't stay on the train past the destination they paid to travel to - a 'carry by'.

Seating coach passengers together that are supposed to get off the train at the same stop makes avoiding a 'carry by' much easier, and smart.

The Service Standards manual says the TA-C (Train Attendant - Coach) should let boarding passengers know what destinations are assigned to the car a coach passenger is boarding (pg, 6-77 Service Standards manual #8).

Passengers boarding between 10pm and 7am are to be directed to a specific seat number. (pg. 6-79)
The TA-C is also supposed to update the coach car(s) seating diagram as the Conductor or Assistant Conductor makes the ticket lift and as passengers got off the train .

The TA-C is expected to prepare passengers for detraining at least 20 minutes prior to arrival at their destination station, to notify the Conductor immediately if they can't find a passenger that should be getting off the train, and if a passenger fails to detrain at their stop (a carry-by) to immediately notify the Conductor.

One TA-C is expected to care for up to 150 coach passengers, even if there are up to 4 coach cars.

A 2nd TA-C is only assigned if the number of passengers will exceed 151 for at least four (4) hours of daylight travel and there are up to 4 coach cars.

A 3rd TA-C is only assigned once 301 passengers will be in coach for at least four (4) hours of daylight travel and there are 5 or 6 coach cars. (pg, 6-74).

No doubt. Some TA-Cs do a pretty poor job. There is a railroad workers union.
Most do an OK job, but nothing to give kudos for.
A few TA-Cs do a very good job.

The Northeast Corridor has much higher passenger loads than any long distance train. 7 coach cars @~75 per car plus a 60 person BC car.A possible maximum of more than 550 passengers Plus, the stops are more numerous and frequent than a lot of LD routes. And they have NO coach attendants, everything is done by the conductor and assistant conductor. Seating is totally open, and, if there is room, you're welcome to move seats for any reason. (In fact, yesterday, the conductor invited me to do so when I informed him that my seat recline was not working.) They seem to keep track with seat checks and rechecking tickets at crew changes. They pull the seat checks before each destination and inform the passengers that they're next. I don't know what kind of problems they have with carry-by on the NEC, but it mustn't be that bad or they would be doing things differently.