Ice for sleeping car passengers?

[inspiration100]

Curious what's up... Chief we had ice the entire trip (it was kept in a cooler in the sleeper right after the bathroom that was unoccupied). Starlight we never had ice and I had to ask for it. It was like I was pulling their teeth to get a glass of ice. What's the status what sleepers providing ice? Was I lucky to have it on the Chief? I just can't drink that apple or orange juice warm without ice.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I've had it mixed. I didn't have it on the EB with Doris, Paul gave it to me on the CS, CZ didn't have it-- we had it on the LSL just this last week--

Honestly I have no clue what Amtrak's honest policy is and whether or not the TAS's are paying attention or not..

 

[Konrad]

Curious what's up... Chief we had ice the entire trip (it was kept in a cooler in the sleeper right after the bathroom that was unoccupied). Starlight we never had ice and I had to ask for it. It was like I was pulling their teeth to get a glass of ice. What's the status what sleepers providing ice? Was I lucky to have it on the Chief? I just can't drink that apple or orange juice warm without ice.

Last time we were on the CS we had an unrenovated sleeper and the ice was in a drawer under the coffee maker. Just had to find it.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Curious what's up... Chief we had ice the entire trip (it was kept in a cooler in the sleeper right after the bathroom that was unoccupied). Starlight we never had ice and I had to ask for it. It was like I was pulling their teeth to get a glass of ice. What's the status what sleepers providing ice? Was I lucky to have it on the Chief? I just can't drink that apple or orange juice warm without ice.

Last time we were on the CS we had an unrenovated sleeper and the ice was in a drawer under the coffee maker. Just had to find it.

That's not unrennovated, that's a Superliner II. And they aren't supposed to keep ice there.

 

[AlanB]

That's not unrennovated, that's a Superliner II. And they aren't supposed to keep ice there.

Well they aren't supposed to keep ice in there anymore due to health regulations, but that's what that draw was built for.

 

[AlanB]

Inspiration100,

The official policy is that ice is now supposed to be kept under lock and key as it were, meaning in the attendant's quarters where passengers can't get to it. The attendant is required to give it out upon request from his passengers.

The reason for this is that people cannot be trusted to use the ice scoop, as well as to not drop the scoop into the ice when done using it. Either is very unsanitary and a health risk. The attendant in theory is supposed to know better to use the scoop and not drop it into the ice, since he/she has been trained in how to handle the ice.

But some attendant's take the lazy way out and just put the ice out for the passenger, rather than following procedure. In fact this past summer, one of the sleeping car attendants on the OTOL fest got spoken to by the conductor for having the ice out where the public could get at it.

 

[Konrad]

Curious what's up... Chief we had ice the entire trip (it was kept in a cooler in the sleeper right after the bathroom that was unoccupied). Starlight we never had ice and I had to ask for it. It was like I was pulling their teeth to get a glass of ice. What's the status what sleepers providing ice? Was I lucky to have it on the Chief? I just can't drink that apple or orange juice warm without ice.

Last time we were on the CS we had an unrenovated sleeper and the ice was in a drawer under the coffee maker. Just had to find it.

That's not unrennovated, that's a Superliner II. And they aren't supposed to keep ice there.

Superliner II or not, it was still in 'as manufactured' condition. Or, might I venture - 'unrenovated'.

I might also add that it needed a serious refurbishment at least - those carpeted panels in the ceiling were black with diesel fumes.

 

[sunchaser]

We just took the California Zephyr on Oct 26 & 28th.

On the the outbound Zephyr, the ice was in the hall as it has been for most of the sleepers we have ridden in.

On the return, however, it was not in sight.

If we needed ice we asked Pete to get it for us. I assume it was in his roomette.

Even though I appreciate being able to get it myself, I also realize that it is not very sanitary for everyone to have that access.

There's no guarantee that someone's hands are clean when they are getting the ice.

 

[MrFSS]

There's no guarantee that someone's hands are clean when they are getting the ice.

Have you ever watched a teenager in a fast food restaurant get ice? Probably cleaner for you to do it on the train than it is in the fast food place.

 

[sunchaser]

There's no guarantee that someone's hands are clean when they are getting the ice.

Have you ever watched a teenager in a fast food restaurant get ice? Probably cleaner for you to do it on the train than it is in the fast food place.

Most of the ones that we have been to recently were self serve with ice dispensers.

I do agree that it may be cleaner on the train-but the teenager & the SCA should both know & practice getting the ice in a sanitary manner.

IIRC, back in the stone age, I did some waitressing. You were not to use a cup to get ice, use the scoop.

I don't remember if you had to keep the scoop out of the ice, but I do remember cleaning the ice container every night.

 

[Rail Freak]

On 3 legs of my round trip X-country trip, my attendants provided me with full ice buckets. However on another leg when I asked for an ice bucket, my attendant thought I was nuts!!! :lol:

RF

 

[jmbgeg]

Curious what's up... Chief we had ice the entire trip (it was kept in a cooler in the sleeper right after the bathroom that was unoccupied). Starlight we never had ice and I had to ask for it. It was like I was pulling their teeth to get a glass of ice. What's the status what sleepers providing ice? Was I lucky to have it on the Chief? I just can't drink that apple or orange juice warm without ice.

I have found implimentation of the ice policy all over the map. I have been told by some attendents that with the H1N1 outbreak, the ice is supposed to be in the SCA's cabin and not accessed by passengers.

I recently have traveled both the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight in sleepers. In all but one case, the ice was in ice chests out in the hallway again. On the one leg that there was no ice chest, it was simply a case that the SCA did not have an ice chest, not a matter of policy. She gladly got me buckets of ice when asked.

In many cases, SCA's are very attentive to keeping the ice chests full at service stops. On a few cases, once the initial ice ran out, they were slow to refill.

When the ice is not accessible to sleeper passengers, they will now bring ice to your room in a paper bucket, as opposed to a cup.

I like ice for my water, ice tea and other beverages, so I have taken to bringing a small cooler when I travel in sleepers. I fill it at home before I depart and again at the hotel before I return. When my own ice runs out, having the small cooler allows me to dump the paper buckets of ice SCA's bring into the cooler and it lasts a long time.

 

[AlanB]

I have found implimentation of the ice policy all over the map. I have been told by some attendents that with the H1N1 outbreak, the ice is supposed to be in the SCA's cabin and not accessed by passengers.

Implimentation is indeed all over the map, unfortunately. And this policy was enacted long before H1N1, I think it's going on two years now, maybe even a bit longer.

 

[sueb]

My son and I made our 1st LD train trips this Sept in sleepers on the CL and the SWC. We rode in the accessible room on the lower level. None of the 4 different SCAs we had even mentioned the availability of ice. Although they brought us bottled water whenever I asked none of them suggested we might want ice. Being new to LD trains I didn't realize I could get ice until I saw it discussed on AU. One of the SCAs even brought us an empty paper ice bucket to use to deal with a minor toilet malfunction, but he still didn't mention that we could get a bucket of ice for our beverages. Since I could not leave my son alone to go search for ice, we were effectively prevented from getting any. It may have been out for self-service "upstairs" but that did us no good, whether it was sanitary or not. Before SCAs worry about where to keep the ice, it would be nice if someone trained them to remember to offer it to people who need it brought to their room from wherever it is located.

 

[EB_OBS]

I've worked in the food service industry for over 20 years. Over time ice has come under more and more scrutiny by health inspectors. Regulations have increased and ice is now considered a food product. Sanitation, cleanliness and handling of ice and ice bins and ice makers and even the scoop are just as important as cooking meats to the correct temperature or maintaining proper refrigeration or freezer temperatures.

Amtrak has for many years offered ice to sleeping car passengers. Early on the attendant had to make a run to either the diner or lounge car to get the ice. A few years back it was suggested that ice actually be kept in the sleeping car itself so attendants would be more likely to offer and provide ice to passengers because it would be quickly accessible. The Superliner II cars did initially have that ice drawer underneath the area that is now the coffee station. The FDA soon balked and said that the ice cannot be kept in a public area for anyone to access for themselves. This has been a normal health department policy for years in many locales. Amtrak has only the FDA to answer to thus local regulations don't apply. The FDA's code of Federal Regulations is what most local health department policies are based upon anyway.

Anyway a couple years ago FDA inspectors began clamping down on the ice policy and recording critical violations if the ice was not kept out of public areas. Amtrak's solution was to make the sleeping car attendants keep the ice chests in their sleeping quarters. The ice chests don't really fit in the end lockers and during peak season when all the rooms are occupied there really just isn't anywhere else to keep that ice chest. Well recently the FDA has seen the ice being kept in the attendants room and they are not happy with that solution either. It's in someone's living space after all. I've just recently met Amtrak's Superintendent of Public Health and he is working on a long-term solution. In the meantime we have what we have. Inconsistent adherence to a policy that no one is happy with.

In regards to the ice chest being kept in the attendants room, I have had several experiences that indicate to me that it's the wrong answer to the problem. I've had attendants who've had personal items stolen from their rooms because they cannot secure their room and against policy are allowing passengers in to get ice for themselves. I've had female attendants have male passengers open their doors and come in for ice or ask for ice in the middle of the night. Now there are attendants who will not keep ice at all if they have to keep it in their rooms. I'm quite aware there are attendants who know the policy and yet keep the ice out in the hallway until they see a manager or supervisor coming, then they'll move it. Attendants aren't telling passengers they can even get ice because it's become a hassle for them. They forget they used to have to go through half the train to get ice.

Good sleeping car attendants should be informing their passengers what's available to them and some measure of consistency from attendant to attendant and train to train is obviously desired. Amtrak is responsible for coming up with a solution that is workable for the sleeping car attendants, benefits the passenger and is acceptable to the FDA. No small order by any means.

This ended up being much longer than I expected. My only desire is that passengers know what they can expect on the train and that sleeping car attendants are offering ice service and following Amtrak and FDA guidelines.

 

[Bob Dylan]

interesting topic! On my just completed loop of central/west part of the country I experienced the foillowing when it came to ice on the sleeper cars:

Texas Eagle #22 Ice in a cooler where it usually is next to the coffee /juice service area by bedroom E with metal scoop-available the whole route from AUS-STL

River Runner#301 STL-KCY None/biz class so cafe attendant had it in the cafe available to pax

SWC#3 KCY-LAX In a cooler in the attendants roomette#1- attendant provided upon request-IIRC this is the current policy

CS#14 LAX-PDX None available but attnedant would provide upon request or PPC attendant would provide upon request or get in diner if out

EB#28/#8 PDX-SPK in coach/sleeper bad ordererd but SCA provided upon request-In SEA sleeper from SPK-CHI

Available in Hall in usual place with metal scoop/SCA would bring upon request/Replenised in Montan a and Minn during stops

TE#21 CHI-AUS Supervisor riding train from CHI-STL/kept in SCA room#1/attendant would provide upon request

STL-AUS: available in hall in cooler with metal scoop as usual after Supervisor left train

As others have said they need to come up with a policy that makes sense/is legal/makes it fair to pax and OBS and make that policy standard throughout Amtrak including training and monitoring of staff!Good SCAs inform pax upon boarding of the services available!

 

[alanh]

There are basically 3 legal options:

1. No ice.
   
2. SCA keeps the ice somewhere (room or lounge/diner) and provides it on request.
   
3. Touch-free ice dispenser.
   

#3 would cost money (plus there's the space issue). #2 is more work for the SCA, plus the passenger may have to wait for them. #1 is a bad passenger experience. So I don't see a really good option. Open ice chests, although common, are not legal because people paw through the ice with their grubby hands.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

This ended up being much longer than I expected. My only desire is that passengers know what they can expect on the train and that sleeping car attendants are offering ice service and following Amtrak and FDA guidelines.

It might have been long, but I enjoyed reading it I would have never guessed there was this much government involved in putting a few ice cubes in my orange juice!

I've only seen it in the sink once. The other times since I didn't see it I simply figured they didn't have it.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[TVRM610]

Personally I prefer being able to get some ice myself and generally speaking there are so few passengers in sleepers (as compared to coach... especially in the East) that I am really not worried about anyone infecting the ice. I totally understand the FDA's concerns. Neither out in the open, or in someone's bedroom is a good idea! If I was a sleeper attendant I can't exactly say that I would be advertising the ice option to everyone... sounds like a hassle to me.

I'm sure Amtrak has a plan for automatic ice machines in the future... I don't think the cost is the issue as much as the planning. I wonder if they make a dispenser that does not require power? It seems a gravity based machine could work with a lower volume need such as sleepers.

 

[Neil_M]

Might be better to install small chiller units in each sleeper to keep the juice and water, rather than messing about with lumps of frozen water.....

 

[jmbgeg]

I have found implimentation of the ice policy all over the map. I have been told by some attendents that with the H1N1 outbreak, the ice is supposed to be in the SCA's cabin and not accessed by passengers.

Implimentation is indeed all over the map, unfortunately. And this policy was enacted long before H1N1, I think it's going on two years now, maybe even a bit longer.

OK. Then the SCA's used H1N1 as a basis to explain it to passengers.

 

[jmbgeg]

Curious what's up... Chief we had ice the entire trip (it was kept in a cooler in the sleeper right after the bathroom that was unoccupied). Starlight we never had ice and I had to ask for it. It was like I was pulling their teeth to get a glass of ice. What's the status what sleepers providing ice? Was I lucky to have it on the Chief? I just can't drink that apple or orange juice warm without ice.

Another point. How is passengers getting ice with a scoop vary for the FDA from patrons of Nevada buffets and chain buffets getting food in service lines and using the serving utinsels? Braniacs at the FDA, explain that...

 

[AlanB]

Another point. How is passengers getting ice with a scoop vary for the FDA from patrons of Nevada buffets and chain buffets getting food in service lines and using the serving utinsels? Braniacs at the FDA, explain that...

The problem isn't using common utensils; the problem is that people drop the ice scoop into the ice, since in most cases there is no place to store the scoop. Even when there is a place to actually store the scoop, many people fail to actually use it.

Even in a buffet, if someone drops the utensil into the food, both the food and the utensel is supposed to be replaced.

 

[jmbgeg]

Another point. How is passengers getting ice with a scoop vary for the FDA from patrons of Nevada buffets and chain buffets getting food in service lines and using the serving utinsels? Braniacs at the FDA, explain that...

The problem isn't using common utensils; the problem is that people drop the ice scoop into the ice, since in most cases there is no place to store the scoop. Even when there is a place to actually store the scoop, many people fail to actually use it.

Even in a buffet, if someone drops the utensil into the food, both the food and the utensel is supposed to be replaced.

Maybe in reality, maybe not.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Another point. How is passengers getting ice with a scoop vary for the FDA from patrons of Nevada buffets and chain buffets getting food in service lines and using the serving utinsels? Braniacs at the FDA, explain that...

The problem isn't using common utensils; the problem is that people drop the ice scoop into the ice, since in most cases there is no place to store the scoop. Even when there is a place to actually store the scoop, many people fail to actually use it.

Even in a buffet, if someone drops the utensil into the food, both the food and the utensel is supposed to be replaced.

Maybe in reality, maybe not.

Lack of enforcement of a rule doesn't negate the rule's existence.