Long read, but interesting. I'm intrigued to see what some of your thoughts on it will be.
One of the founders of the Cato Institute provided access for the money from his family share of the sale of Pacific Trailways to Greyhound. His father hated Amtrak so much that his ticket agents were instructed to insert attack ads in ticket envelopes. He was the key person killing our 1975 proposal for what is now the Oregon portion of the Cascades (including the bus portions).I see enough to know that I won't waste my time reading anything from the CATO Institute.
I had to watch an interview with him while I was in college and the subject was public transportation. He heaped praise on Megabus because "it's private" but Amtrak steals your freedoms because it's public. That was when I learned he and most other anti rail people are not serious people. At best they exist to do a song and dance for people to get their beliefs confirmed by someone in a suit or to dupe less informed people into thinking roads are good and essentially free with no downsides. And transit always costs 1000 times its cost estimates and will lure in poor people to steal your TVs.This paper is by experienced data-twister Randall O'Toole, who always turns up when the opportunity presents itself. Much of what he writes, going back to his days fighting New Urbanist planners in Oak Grove, Oregon, misdirects readers not familiar with his specific example
The tv thefts go back to a telephone recorded message (the Liberty Lobby?) opposing the original MARTA rail transit project. O'Toole avoids that sort of thing; someone else is always willing to take the low road.I had to watch an interview with him while I was in college and the subject was public transportation. He heaped praise on Megabus because "it's private" but Amtrak steals your freedoms because it's public. That was when I learned he and most other anti rail people are not serious people. At best they exist to do a song and dance for people to get their beliefs confirmed by someone in a suit or to dupe less informed people into thinking roads are good and essentially free with no downsides. And transit always costs 1000 times its cost estimates and will lure in poor people to steal your TVs.
Well, we can learn from anything but it does help to know some of the background. The internet is weird that way in that sometimes it's easy to figure where someone is coming from and sometimes it tosses up gibberish.Didn’t know about the bias and credibility issues.
It's one thing to read an article that actually supports it's arguments with verifiable data. And it's not hard to find studies comparing a mostly electric rail system vs air travels emissions. Thinking Greyhound or Megabus is better than Amtrak almost entirely because it's privately owned is an ideological point that has at best little evidence of being better than a publicly run system and at worst piles of evidence to the contrary. On the contrary to the anti rail people, there is plenty of evidence to show that transit improvements and the cost of operations are significantly cheaper than road alternatives, generate more overall economic activity and a well built rail project deals with less traffic. People like O'Toole need to result to falsehoods to convince others to not like rail since most people have a built in sympathy for trains and the evidence is dramatically on the side of rail over highways even when railroads get some public money.There is definitely some confirmation bias on this forum. People were happy to read a Greenpeace article in support of rail, but refuse to read a Cato Institute article opposed to it. Both organizations are unabashedly biased.
I want to know what the opposition is saying. It helps my advocacy when I can anticipate their objections.
The Cato Institute paper has 139 footnotes with citations.It's one thing to read an article that actually supports it's arguments with verifiable data.
I am more curious to learn what your thoughts are in it. Since afterall you’re the one who took the time to read it.
Long read, but interesting. I'm intrigued to see what some of your thoughts on it will be.
Well I am much less knowledgeable than most on this forum. I thought they made some decent points, especially about the NEC backlog and the rising costs of the California High Speed Rail project. On their other points, such as about the economic growth and costs, I was surprised. And I was definitely questioning the accuracy of some of their statements by halfway through. And I will say that them talking about China's highway miles compared to their railway miles was an interesting surprise. 4I am more curious to learn what your thoughts are on it. Since afterall your the one who took the time to read it.![]()
Do WHAT?? This is utter nonsense. Their only failures are being near overwhelmed with passengers and trying, and in a lot of locations succeeding, running faster on parts of the system than the original design anticipated. Maybe he should visit the place and ride around some.He even went on to talk about Japan's failure of the Shinkansen.
I recommend reading Alon Levy's work regarding transit infrastructure costs. In the blog post that I linked above he critiques O'Toole's paper. Some of the information cited was misused. Unrelated to transit or railways I've run across that problem with others in my history research.The Cato Institute paper has 139 footnotes with citations.
I don't agree with their conclusions, but you can't say that the paper is merely an opinion piece that is devoid of evidence.
Greenpeace advocates for what is best for the environment - some of their views make a lot of sense and others are considered to be radical by many people. Greenpeace sees government as the vehicle to institute these policies - regardless of the economic and practical realities. The Cato Institute lies at the other end of the spectrum. They believe in the free market rather than government. As with most things in life, the truth is probably somewhere in between.
I want to see an expanded rail network as much as anyone else. But the reality is that we need a cultural change in this country. The Cato Institute makes some very good points about our inability to make improvements just along the Northeast Corridor. If we are going to spend billions of dollars on rail, I want to know that we are committed to maintaining that system and to building infrastructure to enhance the system. With our two party system, there is reason to be concerned about that.
I recommend reading Alon Levy's work regarding transit infrastructure costs. In the blog post that I linked above he critiques O'Toole's paper. Some of the information cited was misused. Unrelated to transit or railways I've run across that problem with others in my history research.
The reason that I posted the Greenpeace story link is the significance of a non-transportation group taking an interest. In the past, intercity rail travel has often been ignored by environmental groups.
Here's Alon's critique of O'Toole's paper again:
Randal O’Toole Gets High-Speed Rail Wrong | Pedestrian Observations
What I have heard of is replacing the catenary between New Haven and Washington. The present one was built in the 1930's and is worn out. That would enable increased speed for the Acela on the existing rail line.