Intermodal connections

[Don Newcomb]

Kind of new here and was wondering how much discussion here is devoted to Intermodal connections. This is what I really like about travel in Europe and Japan. For practical travel, you don't need a car. From the plane you get on the train, the train takes you to near your destination, where you catch the bus, if it's too far to walk from the bus stop, a cab will finish the trip. Well that's the way it is in Europe & Japan. In the USA the attitude has been, "If you can't afford to fly and rent a car at the destination, you don't deserve to travel." I feel that without good Intermodal connections, rail transport will never work for the average traveler.

I've been looking at some US cities in this regard. We have it all: The good, the bad and the ugly.

The good is found in places like Baltimore & Newark, where the airport is connected to a train station (like Schiphol or Narita). I have a cousin who flys (SWA) from Houston to Baltimore then takes the train the rest of the way into NYC.

Atlanta is an example of the bad. You can take the Marta from the airport to within about a mile of the Amtrak station. However, you have to use a bus, cab or "shank's mare" to make that final connection. How and why they decided that the Amtrak station didn't need a Marta connection is beyond me.

The most ugly example I can think of is, for a major city, New Orleans. There is actually a public bus from the Airport to downtown New Orleans. It stops two blocks from Union Station. Other than a cab, that's New Orleans' only concession to Intermodal connections.

 

[the_traveler]

Very few US cities have a convenient transfer between the airport and the train station. Only a few (such as BWI, Newark and Milwaukee) have stations at the airport. Some have buses or bus runs that go from the airport to the train station (such as LAX and SAN). Most others either have bus routes or subway stops that go a few blocks (or more) away from the train (such as CHI), or you can get there by public transportation - with numerous transfers (such as to BON). Or you can't get there at all (to many to name)!

At some cities - even if you rent a car thru Amtrak - you must go to the airport to pick it up! A few years ago, when I went to SLC, Hertz provided cab fare to the Airport to get the car! (It was only a few miles away.) And in RNO, Hertz provided cab fare to a downtown hotel to get the car or - if it was closed - to the airport!

 

[George Harris]

The most ugly example I can think of is, for a major city, New Orleans. There is actually a public bus from the Airport to downtown New Orleans. It stops two blocks from Union Station. Other than a cab, that's New Orleans' only concession to Intermodal connections.

At one time several (most?) of the Greyhound schedules going west out of New Orleans stopped at the airport. I believe that these are no more.

 

[Tony]

Very few US cities have a convenient transfer between the airport and the train station.

I think here in the USA, very few travelers have even the slightest interest in a "intermodal" trip with some kind of combination of air travel and rail travel. Travelers either fly, or take a LD Amtrak train.

Even if one extends the concept of "intermodal" to include cruise and air, JFK doesn't have a major cruise line port even though it is located right on the Atlantic shore.

When there is just about no interest, is simply isn't going to ever happen.

 

[Rafi]

NARP maintains a pretty good list of such stations:

Intermodal Airports

Rafi

 

[Don Newcomb]

NARP maintains a pretty good list of such stations:Intermodal Airports

Great list.

DRN

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

I think when looking at plane to and from rail connections, another part of the problem is that most Amtrak routes really aren't structured in a way that complements airplane travel nicely.

If you look at T F Green Airport, the plan is for MBTA Commuter Rail service, and apparently there's no plan for Amtrak service. But that may not be terrible. Coming from Boston, Amtrak might save you a half hour, but it also costs 2-4 times as much as taking the T. If you were coming from New London to T F Green (which feels very non-hypothetical to me, as I actually have gone from Waterford, the town next to New London, to T F Green, on a few occasions), Amtrak's on time performance may not really make Amtrak appropriate for transportation to an airport. Commuter rail service on that route might work better.

Outside the Northeast Corridor and a few other places, Amtrak service typically operates once a day in each direction, and many routes only stop once every hour or two. If you're going to mix rail and air and have it make any sense, you probably don't want to spend all that much time on a relatively slow train, and the energy saved by a few hundred miles of train travel instead of plane travel probably isn't significant unless it reduces the total number of airplane legs in your trip.

 

[caravanman]

This is a subject close to my heart.. I like the idea of systems that work together, rather than in a competitive way. (Gosh, maybe I am a commie pinko!!).

I think in some ways, as a section of society gets wealthier, it looses some of the basic "building blocks". The necessity to provide a "joined up" public transport network for citizens is often redundant because people can afford to use their own cars or taxis to fill in gaps. With Amtrak, you tend to have only one or two trains each day, (some at 4am!) so providing a comprehensive public bus service to Amtrak might not be appropriate.

A few years ago I visited Niagara Falls. Arrived by train to Buffalo, taxi to hotel.. hotel shuttle to Buffalo bus station, bus to Niagara Falls, get off bus in one way street. On the way back we are searching for the correct bus stop for the return journey. We must have asked dozens of local people, hotel receptions, none knew, most seemed amazed that there was even a bus service available!

Most operators do not provide helpful timetable information on other modes of transport, let alone integration.. If global warming and high fuel prices continue it makes a lot of sense to invest in providing any missing parts of the transport jigsaw..

As others have mentioned, it often would only take a small extension to an existing bus or tram route.. one almost could think that the gaps were there on purpose, to protect revenue rather than provide a full service.. Perhaps that is the issue, are transport networks private money makers or public benefactors?

Us older folk here in the UK are used to a "one shop" joined up train service.. sadly that is no longer available. You might need info on a train from A to B, but Virgin trains staff have no interest in helping you if it is a Midland Mainline train you need... Train X leaves just before train Y connects, who cares mate, it's a different train company, not our job to integrate.. so much for progress! Bonkers!

Ed B)

 

[MrFSS]

As others have mentioned, it often would only take a small extension to an existing bus or tram route.. one almost could think that the gaps were there on purpose, to protect revenue rather than provide a full service..

Ed - herein lies the problem. As you mentioned, with only one train from each direction per day, why would the bus company want to run buses to the station for only a few people who might want the service after getting off the train? Why would the buses run there the other 23 hours a day if there is no train service to "hook up" with?

 

[Tony]

NARP maintains a pretty good list of such stations:Intermodal Airports

Rafi

It is quite interesting how very few entries in their list are "Amtrak".

 

[Tony]

As others have mentioned, it often would only take a small extension to an existing bus or tram route.. one almost could think that the gaps were there on purpose, to protect revenue rather than provide a full service.. Perhaps that is the issue, are transport networks private money makers or public benefactors?

I just thought I would mention that in eastern PA, there is bus service (several trips each day) that after making a few local pickup stops around the Lehigh Valley area, is then a direct express down to the 30th Street Station in Philly.

 

[the_traveler]

As others have mentioned, it often would only take a small extension to an existing bus or tram route.. one almost could think that the gaps were there on purpose, to protect revenue rather than provide a full service.. Perhaps that is the issue, are transport networks private money makers or public benefactors?

I just thought I would mention that in eastern PA, there is bus service (several trips each day) that after making a few local pickup stops around the Lehigh Valley area, is then a direct express down to the 30th Street Station in Philly.

But 30th Street Station is a major transportation center in a major city in the northeast in downtown and has many other train choices - besides Amtrak!

Even a few years ago, Boston trains to the west and south departed South Station (as they still do). The bus station was many blocks away, and the airport could have been reached by T (subway) - but with a few inconvenient transfers between lines. Now the bus station is in another part of South Station and the Silver Line runs directly to the airport. (To reach North Station is another matter! )

 

[Tony]

But 30th Street Station is a major transportation center in a major city in the northeast in downtown and has many other train choices - besides Amtrak!

Well, I do compare it to another nearby major northeast city, NYC. I have personally done the hike/dash from the Port Authority at 8th and 42nd to Penn Station at 8th and 34th. Not nearly as convenient.

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Even a few years ago, Boston trains to the west and south departed South Station (as they still do). The bus station was many blocks away, and the airport could have been reached by T (subway) - but with a few inconvenient transfers between lines. Now the bus station is in another part of South Station and the Silver Line runs directly to the airport. (To reach North Station is another matter! )

IIRC, I caught a Greyhound bus at South Station about a month short of ten years ago, so I'm not sure I buy that few years ago thing.

And yes, there is now the SL1 bus which runs fairly directly from South Station to the airport. Unfortunately, there's the stupid mode change from overhead wire to diesel at Silver Line Way. And the Ted Williams Tunnel only has a grand total of four lanes (at one point it had been proposed as six), which will make things extremely awkward if there's a desire to someday have rail all the way from South Station to Logan Airport without building yet another tunnel under Boston Harbor.

I'm not sure if it makes sense, strictly speaking, to ever fix the North Station connection problem. If a Central Station were constructed with a platform under I-93 whose north end were approximately at Hanover Street and its south end approximately where Atlantic Ave meets Cross Street, the platform would be approximately 1000 feet long (which is about what the NSRL study was proposing for the underground North Station), and it would be about half a commuter train length walk from the south end of the commuter rail platform to Aquarium Station for a Blue Line connection, and about half a commuter train length walk from the north end of the commuter rail platform to Haymarket station for a Green Line and Orange Line connection. That Central Station location plus an underground set of platforms at South Station is what I'm currently thinking is the ideal way to connect the two halves of the commuter rail system. North Station's commuter rail platforms would then probably only be used for events at the Garden, and maybe for the Downeaster if it has to continue to run as a separate train with diesels. South Station's surface platforms might still be needed to get capacity that may not be built at the underground stations.

 

[the_traveler]

Even a few years ago

IIRC, I caught a Greyhound bus at South Station about a month short of ten years ago, so I'm not sure I buy that few years ago thing.

What I meant be "a few years" was the generic "more than 3". Maybe I should have said "many years ago".

 

[Green Maned Lion]

But 30th Street Station is a major transportation center in a major city in the northeast in downtown and has many other train choices - besides Amtrak!

Well, I do compare it to another nearby major northeast city, NYC. I have personally done the hike/dash from the Port Authority at 8th and 42nd to Penn Station at 8th and 34th. Not nearly as convenient.

*sings*

Well you must take the A-Train... (Or the C, E, 1, 2, or 3) All of which conveniently link Port Authority with Penn Station. Combine that with a trip on the S Shuttle to transport between NYP and Grand Central Terminal. You can also take Path from Hoboken to any number of places in NYC.

The last place to make fun of in terms of successful intermodal transportation is NYC. Within NY State, NJ, and Connecticut, all you have to do to get around NYC is to get to your local rail station, which in general should never be more than 30 miles away, and is rarely more than 5! Then you can get all over the city. And forget taxis. Ya won't need them. You can get to two of the three major airports (JFK and EWR) via easy rail connections.

If all major cities over a million people in the US emulated NYC's internal and commuting transportation system, traffic would be a much smaller problem.

 

[Walt]

The last place to make fun of in terms of successful intermodal transportation is NYC. Within NY State, NJ, and Connecticut, all you have to do to get around NYC is to get to your local rail station, which in general should never be more than 30 miles away, and is rarely more than 5! Then you can get all over the city. And forget taxis. Ya won't need them. You can get to two of the three major airports (JFK and EWR) via easy rail connections.

Well, that is only true if one restricts one of the "iintermodals" to be rail; any type of rail.

Try walking directly from Amtrak (NYP) to JFK or LGA. Or walking from the PAT to the Manhattan Cruise Ship Terminal. NYC doesn't "hub" any of its long distance travel modes.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I have walked from Penn Station to a cruise ship before. Its a bit of a walk, but not too big a problem.

Intermodal options don't have to be that closely hubbed, when their are convenient connections between the two.

 

[DaveKCMO]

the government (or google) needs to crack open the remaining monopolies on transit scheduling. there should be one system that allows you to see all bus, train, plane, marine, and public transit schedules in one place. any provider should be able to feed it for free or a very low cost.

intermodalism elevates all modes by making the connections more convenient (and obvious). while it is indeed easy to make many of these connections today, the average person doesn't see them because they are essentially hidden.

 

[adkkev]

the government (or google) needs to crack open the remaining monopolies on transit scheduling. there should be one system that allows you to see all bus, train, plane, marine, and public transit schedules in one place. any provider should be able to feed it for free or a very low cost.
intermodalism elevates all modes by making the connections more convenient (and obvious). while it is indeed easy to make many of these connections today, the average person doesn't see them because they are essentially hidden.

The Alaska RR station at the ANC airport is only for cruise line passengers who have booked a land-sea tour. If you've flown into ANC on your own, then you've got to find another way to the ARR depot.

 

[DaveKCMO]

can anyone describe the amtrak/airport connection at BWI? how long does it take to get from the train platform to security? i'm planning to head to the east coast (hartford) from kansas city (via chief/capitol/regional) but want to fly back in one leg. bradley doesn't have any non-stop options to kansas city, so i'd like to take amtrak from hartford to BWI and fly home non-stop on southwest.

 

[transit54]

can anyone describe the amtrak/airport connection at BWI? how long does it take to get from the train platform to security? i'm planning to head to the east coast (hartford) from kansas city (via chief/capitol/regional) but want to fly back in one leg. bradley doesn't have any non-stop options to kansas city, so i'd like to take amtrak from hartford to BWI and fly home non-stop on southwest.

It's very easy. Basically, the rail station is on the far side of the parking garage, which sits between the rail station and the terminal. You get off at the rail station and there is a waiting area, where a free shuttle bus that runs very frequently will take you to the terminal. When I did it last month, total time from the rail station to the terminal was less than ten minutes, including the time to wait for the bus.

 

[DaveKCMO]

thanks!

 

[AudenHoggart]

thanks!

The NARP list shows airports with rail connections, but doesn't show which cities have local rail between the airport and Amtrak. With the new Amtrak station, St. Louis is now one of these. The Metrolink runs directly from the airport terminal to a station (Civic Center) which is immediately adjacent to the Amtrak station. Even more "intermodally," the new Amtrak station is also the new Greyhound station for the city.