Is "socially distant" seating no longer used?

[jis]

Airlines will sometimes offer me a discounted upgrade to 1st class when I check in on the app.

Also hotels will often over-sell cheaper rooms and then “upgrade” a customer to a suite when they arrive. Amtrak could do that with bedrooms if they wanted to.

Those two situations are not the same as what Amtrak faces though.

An airline knows pretty much for sure just before the boarding gate closes that certain seats will go unoccupied for that segment, so they can give out upgrades either free or discounted to favored customers and backfill the vacated cheaper seats with fare paying passengers.

Similarly hotels have a pretty good idea of occupancy for a night by 9pm.

That is very different from what Amtrak faces on a multi day journey. So the same logic does not necessarily apply to Amtrak.

 

[Sidney]

Yes, and I’m a male and I’ve been in extremely uncomfortable situations when seated next to both male and female passengers in the dining car.

I really hope seating passengers next to each other in the diner never returns. (I’m fine with making new friends across the table).

By sitting four strangers together it is one less table to clean. That's the attitude of the staff. Unless people know each other and want to be seated side by side,there should be two strangers to a table. I really hope that rule goes into effect when the pedemic has run its course.

Two years ago there were four people total in the dining car for breakfast at 6:30 when they first opened and we were all seated together..four single travelers. Only three people came in while we ate. No excuse for that kind of cramming.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Those two situations are not the same as what Amtrak faces though.

An airline knows pretty much for sure just before the boarding gate closes that certain seats will go unoccupied for that segment, so they can give out upgrades either free or discounted to favored customers and backfill the vacated cheaper seats with fare paying passengers.

Similarly hotels have a pretty good idea of occupancy for a night by 9pm.

That is very different from what Amtrak faces on a multi day journey. So the same logic does not necessarily apply to Amtrak.

If rooms going empty is the best business model then ok.

 

[jis]

If rooms going empty is the best business model then ok.

I guess you did not bother to read and understand what I wrote. So OK. I did not say anything about room going empty. I just explained why the Amtrak situation is not the same as the airline situation.

As for what is the best way to handle the Amtrak situation, I have no idea, given the lack of information beyond anecdotes that I have at my disposal. I am not sure there is an easy one size fits all solution for all of the Amtrak LD trains. The most optimum possibly depends on details of what are the major on/off stations on the route and when they occur in the long journey.

For example on the Atlantic Coast Service it may be OK to release rooms for upgrade southbound at Raleigh on the Star and at Richmond for the Meteor, and one could work out such for each train and program that into the system. Or one could simply allow upgrade as soon as someone gets on the train irrespective of potential full fare passengers down route. Without more boarding pattern and sales pattern info it is hard to tell what is optimal.

 

[jebr]

I guess you did not bother to read and understand what I wrote. So OK. I did not say anything about room going empty. I just explained why the Amtrak situation is not the same as the airline situation.

As for what is the best way to handle the Amtrak situation, I have no idea, given the lack of information beyond anecdotes that I have at my disposal. I am not sure there is an easy one size fits all solution for all of the Amtrak LD trains. The most optimum possibly depends on details of what are the major on/off stations on the route and when they occur in the long journey.

For example on the Atlantic Coast Service it may be OK to release rooms for upgrade southbound at Raleigh on the Star and at Richmond for the Meteor, and one could work out such for each train and program that into the system. Or one could simply allow upgrade as soon as someone gets on the train irrespective of potential full fare passengers down route. Without more boarding pattern and sales pattern info it is hard to tell what is optimal.

Yeah - there's certainly a risk with trying to sell all upgrades at any price in Chicago on a western LD train, for example. It's not unreasonable to expect there to be at least the potential for a few sales a day or two downline. If there's a lot of vacancies, that's a problem, and ideally you'd want to target some upgrade offers on those traveling shorter distances to alleviate some of that issue (for example, someone going CHI - LSE on the Empire Builder might be enticed by a cheap upgrade, and if it's unsold going out of CHI it's unlikely to be picked up before LSE.) I'd expect Amtrak to have that data in some capacity, and ideally they could target it well enough to balance the competing issues. But I wouldn't expect Amtrak to try to sell the last remaining roomette on a train as a cheap upgrade, especially to someone traveling through much/all of the route - there's likely too much potential for lost revenue downline.

 

[MARC Rider]

By sitting four strangers together it is one less table to clean. That's the attitude of the staff. Unless people know each other and want to be seated side by side, there should be two strangers to a table. I really hope that rule goes into effect when the pedemic has run its course.

Two years ago there were four people total in the dining car for breakfast at 6:30 when they first opened and we were all seated together..four single travelers. Only three people came in while we ate. No excuse for that kind of cramming.

However, if the train is full and diner business is booming, of course they want to ensure that all of the seats are occupied. This allows for more efficient meal service, and it allows more customers to be served. When I rode the Merchant's Limited in the 1970s, the diner was always packed, and there was no problem with community seating. You entered the car, and no muss, no fuss, the steward/LSA pointed you to the next empty seat. That was the way it was in the "good old days." And the service was efficient, I would be able to have a complete dinner between Trenton and Newark.

I think there's been some sort of cultural paradigm shift over the past 5 decades, and people are now much more skittish about being in close proximity to others. I'm not sure whether this is a good thing or not.

 

[Sidney]

I agree. If the is full and the diner is packed,four to a table strangers or not is fine. My example was early in the morning when the diner had only a few people. Sitting four strangers at one table was wrong.

 

[MARC Rider]

Sounds like your solution would be for everyone to just stay home, and learn, dine, play, and work from there. I personally wouldn't want to live in a "virtual reality" world....

Not true. But if we're really serious about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and if we want to be able to travel, we'll need to do it efficiently, and that might mean that most of us will have to give up some comfort while traveling, as a lot of the comfort comes from increasing personal space, which means less passengers per vehicle, which means more GHG emssions per passenger mile.

 

[me_little_me]

Not true. But if we're really serious about reducing greenhouse gas emissions, and if we want to be able to travel, we'll need to do it efficiently, and that might mean that most of us will have to give up some comfort while traveling, as a lot of the comfort comes from increasing personal space, which means less passengers per vehicle, which means more GHG emssions per passenger mile.

When we waste gas by having guzzling SUVs as big as zip codes and containing one person; apartment and hotel owners that install the least efficient A/C possible; still allowing incandescent Christmas lights; and, you name it, inefficiencies, worrying about the pennies of higher emissions you're talking about is downright silly. Let's get the big stuff first then worry about the little things.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

When we waste gas by having guzzling SUVs as big as zip codes and containing one person; apartment and hotel owners that install the least efficient A/C possible; still allowing incandescent Christmas lights; and, you name it, inefficiencies, worrying about the pennies of higher emissions you're talking about is downright silly. Let's get the big stuff first then worry about the little things.

Not to mention using large airplanes for short hops.

 

[Qapla]

Shortly after COVID first hit and the planes were grounded and lockdowns occurred so far fewer cars were on the road they reported that, after the first month, there was already a decline in the pollution from exhaust emission's worldwide - keep in mind, at that time, Amtrak was still running a full daily schedule of the LD trains as they had not yet reduced service.

 

[CameraObscura76]

In normal times Amtrak single coach travelers can expect accelerated grouping with other strangers, a lack of center armrests or other dividers, and lots of empty off-limits seats saved for ghost groups that are always just one more stop down the line. What single coach travelers cannot expect is any option to book two seats per person at any price. That being said, people who rarely travel alone in coach have determined that this is a perfectly adequate situation.

Pre-pandemic, I had no issues booking two seats for myself and did so regularly.

 

[caravanman]

I actually enjoy sharing a table, and chatting to my fellow table companions, it is a plus part of my Amtrak experience.
I assume that putting four people together in an almost empty car is more efficient use of order taking and serving personnel?
Some folk are just shy, want two seats, don't want to chat or share a table, but some do enjoy that aspect of train travel!

 

[Sidney]

I do enjoy chatting with strangers during meals,but as I said seating four people together at one table during light traffic times should not be done,unless people are traveling together

 

[Qapla]

seating four people together at one table during light traffic times should not be done

Then again, is having to clean four tables for only four people the best use of time, materials and funds?


It all depends on your point of view

 

[Sidney]

In the middle. During light traffic times in the diner,unless you are traveling together,there should be two people at a table sitting across from each other.

 

[Exvalley]

Then again, is having to clean four tables for only four people the best use of time, materials and funds?


It all depends on your point of view

If the dining car is rather empty, then a good service worker would not complain about having to clean a couple of extra tables. As for the 5 cents worth of cleaning materials, I suppose we could take up a collection.

 

[jis]

Then again, is having to clean four tables for only four people the best use of time, materials and funds?


It all depends on your point of view

Yes. Actually getting rid of the tables and chairs and putting standing level counters along the wall would be even more efficient and perhaps even desirable in some world view. That will certainly be even more efficient of time, material and funds.

But that does not mean it should be doled out to people paying multiple hundred and sometimes even a thousand dollars for a ticket. Nor should they be stuffed four to a table if they do not desire so, while there are 8 other tables vacant. Just my very humble opinion of course.

 

[Bob Dylan]

In the middle. During light traffic times in the diner,unless you are traveling together,there should be two people at a table sitting across from each other.

I liked how they operated the Food Service in the Pacific Parlour Car on the Starlight, you could have your own table, or couples could sit together.( of course there were fewer tables, and they were a tighter fit, so 4 really didnt fit all that well, and only 1 LSA worked the Car, the way they're doing now in the CCC and AFAIK have done on the Cardinal since it went to Single Level Equipment with the Diner Lite)

Setting out the food in Sacks, and having to line up to get your drinks is no way to run a Diner.( but with only 1 LSA trying to do the jobs of what is normally 3 is nuts!)

 

[Mystic River Dragon]

I welcome the idea of traditional dining coming back and hope it does. Sitting with strangers and having wonderful conversations was always a highlight of any long-distance trip for me.

However, after a year of carefully avoiding everyone, staying at least 6 feet apart, double masking, never going inside a building unless absolutely necessary, and reading article after article about how disgusting it is when people breathe on each other, it will take me a while before I want to get within 6 feet of anyone again.

When I finally go on a long-distance train again, I will eat in my roomette—something I never considered before the virus.

It will probably take me a good year of emerging slowly before I want to be near any strangers, and I have read articles that suggest this reaction is more common than people might think.

So if there are many other people who feel like I do, the traditional dining may have a bit of trouble catching on again, as wonderful as the concept is in general. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Ziv]

I would like a bar height counter facing out w fixed bar stools for my solo dining car trips! The views are a huge part of why I travel by train!
Hostess could simply ask “would you like to sit at a table or at the bar?” Take out one 4 top for bar height counter space and make the 4 top oppo it into a 6 top so the space freed up wouldn’t be wasted.
Probably wouldn’t work but it would be cool if it did.

Yes. Actually getting rid of the tables and chairs and putting standing level counters along the wall would be even more efficient and perhaps even desirable in some world view. That will certainly be even more efficient of time, material and funds.

But that does not mean it should be doled out to people paying multiple hundred and sometimes even a thousand dollars for a ticket. Nor should they be stuffed four to a table if they do not desire so, while there are 8 other tables vacant. Just my very humble opinion of course.

 

[jis]

I would like a bar height counter facing out w fixed bar stools for my solo dining car trips! The views are a huge part of why I travel by train!
Hostess could simply ask “would you like to sit at a table or at the bar?” Take out one 4 top for bar height counter space and make the 4 top oppo it into a 6 top so the space freed up wouldn’t be wasted.
Probably wouldn’t work but it would be cool if it did.

I'd go for that as an available alternative, but not as the only accommodation available in the food service car. Acelas kinda sorta have that in the food service car, but self serve. No "hostess".

BTW would a host do? Or does it have to be a hostess?

 

[Ziv]

I agree, I don't think eliminating all the 4 tops would be a good move. But replacing one or two of them with bar stool counter space (and maybe sneaking in a 6 top) would be cool. I like meeting people in the diner but watching the countryside roll by is great too.
A host? I don't know... Food always tastes better if a woman seats you. LOL! Sorry Monsieur Maitre D'hotel!
;-)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Regarding a counter - the rebuilt heritage diners had a counter with stools... they were never used on any trains I rode.

 

[tricia]

I welcome the idea of traditional dining coming back and hope it does. Sitting with strangers and having wonderful conversations was always a highlight of any long-distance trip for me.

However, after a year of carefully avoiding everyone, staying at least 6 feet apart, double masking, never going inside a building unless absolutely necessary, and reading article after article about how disgusting it is when people breathe on each other, it will take me a while before I want to get within 6 feet of anyone again.

When I finally go on a long-distance train again, I will eat in my roomette—something I never considered before the virus.

It will probably take me a good year of emerging slowly before I want to be near any strangers, and I have read articles that suggest this reaction is more common than people might think.

So if there are many other people who feel like I do, the traditional dining may have a bit of trouble catching on again, as wonderful as the concept is in general. It will be interesting to see what happens.

While there are certainly lots of other people who feel like you do, about slowly easing into closer contact with strangers, I'm actually looking forward to mingling in a crowd again, as soon as that's reasonably safe. A year ago, I had no idea I'd miss that.

Once I get that out of my system, though, I might revert to not wanting much time in crowds. On the whole, I'm pretty content living a mile from our nearest neighbors. ☺