King Street Station (Seattle)

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riderails

Train Attendant
Joined
Jul 20, 2017
Messages
41
Seattle’s King Street Station has to rank very near (if not at) the bottom of Amtrak terminus stations. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to avoid due to its status as a link to the Empire Builder and Coast Starlight. For starters, it has nothing approaching a Metro Lounge. I have yet to see anyone resembling security personnel; this is especially relevant due to what one too often finds in the building, e.g., a filthy character taking a “bath” in the men’s room. And in the same facility, someone (one?) in one of only two stalls for an abnormally extended period of time with trousers on the floor. I have been in the dump when there was not a single available seat (real “first-class” stuff all around) and absolutely no “Customer Service” personnel in sight. I understand that this sorry representative of a serious passenger rail station is not the property of Amtrak; rather it is the proud property of the city of Seattle. Although it is easy to locate positive evaluations based on architectural features of this facility, it has far to go to become a respectable piece of Amtrak’s classy Cascade and long-distance services.
 
Unfortunately, this once near-perfect Pacific Northwest jewel has turned into an overcrowded cesspool. Too much development, lack of affordable housing, few places for anyone in the lower rungs of society to work, live, take a shower, use a bathroom, or sleep.

San Francisco, meet your soulmate, Seattle. Both were always on my must-do list every time I ventured west on a train adventure. Now I avoid both. Which generally means sticking to VIA trains out west. Oh the sacrifices we railfans must make. :)
 
It’s also disappointing that nothing ever came of the 2nd and 3rd stories of the building. There’s plenty of space for a restaurant or bar, but Seattle hasn’t found a tenant.

Good news is that there’s good bars and restaurants in the neighborhood now.
 
On one of my extended layovers last year I explored the 2nd & 3rd floors and enjoyed a fascinating series of displays sponsored by something like a Seattle cultural authority in which Western Canadian indigenous peoples had representations of aspects of their cultures. As I recall, the program was to run several months. Recently, the 2nd floor was locked off.
 
I have seen security folk there - quite some number of them, actually - but it IS in a moderately undesirable neighborhood and has some serious accessibility issues. It is one of my least favorite places to try to transfer from Amtrak to a rental car. If I am getting picked up, can guarantee whoever is picking me up will ask me to get off in Edmonds or Everett instead.

The feeling may well be a universal one - I had the impression on one trip a couple years ago that more than half the passengers from the Builder alighted in Everett, leaving something like 30 of us to continue into Seattle.

Not sure it's likely to change anytime soon, and if it does, it probably won't be because of Amtrak. Amtrak makes up a mighty small share of station traffic, compared to the Sounder (and Amtrak long distance a mighty small share compared to the Cascades.) The Sounder is doing a good business with workers continuing to downtown on foot. Seems there might be a market for some type of eatery to serve their needs - for an hour or so each morning and evening. It would be quiet as a tomb in between.
 
Yes, it's very sad state of affairs. We were so proud when the station was completely renovated it's very sad state of affairs. We were so proud when the station was completely renovated some years ago, returned--as if by magic--back to its former glory. We had such high hopes. But in the years since, it has not "prospered", not hardly. Seattle today is a very strange place. Luxury towers are going up at a breathtaking pace, yet there remains a severe and seemingly worsening homeless crisis, fueled by a lack of affordable housing, rampant drug use and a distressing level of mental illness. The voters send "communists" to the city council over and over again. By "communists" I mean that Seattle has become a one-party town--no dissent is allowed and not much would even be offered by any of the current crop of local officials. On top of that, King Street Station is located in what could be called an epicenter, if not THE epicenter of this sorry situation. Yes, many of us wanted a restaurant or at least a coffee shop on one of the upper levels. Instead, the powers-that-be wanted an art gallery of sorts showing work of immigrants. There are rooms even on the first floor which go unused. A first- and business- class lounge could easily be opened. And yes, the men's bathroom is pretty bad. But as long as the city owns it, I don't think there will be any improvement forthcoming.me years ago, returned--as if by magic--back to its former glory. We had such high hopes. But in the years since, it has not "prospered", not hardly. Seattle today is a very strange place. Luxury towers are going up at a breathtaking pace, yet there remains a severe and seemingly worsening homeless crisis, fueled by a lack of affordable housing, rampant drug use and a distressing level of mental illness. The voters send "communists" to the city council over and over again. By "communists" I mean that Seattle has become a one-party town--no dissent is allowed and not much would even be offered by any of the current crop of local officials. On top of that, King Street Station is located in what could be called an epicenter, if not THE epicenter of this sorry situation. Yes, many of us wanted a restaurant or at least a coffee shop on one of the upper levels. Instead, the powers-that-be wanted an art gallery of sorts showing work of immigrants. There are rooms even on the first floor which go unused. A first- and business- class lounge could easily be opened. And yes, the men's bathroom is pretty bad. But as long as the city owns it, I don't think there will be any improvement forthcoming.
 
Yes, it's very sad state of affairs. We were so proud when the station was completely renovated it's very sad state of affairs. We were so proud when the station was completely renovated some years ago, returned--as if by magic--back to its former glory. We had such high hopes. But in the years since, it has not "prospered", not hardly. Seattle today is a very strange place. Luxury towers are going up at a breathtaking pace, yet there remains a severe and seemingly worsening homeless crisis, fueled by a lack of affordable housing, rampant drug use and a distressing level of mental illness. The voters send "communists" to the city council over and over again. By "communists" I mean that Seattle has become a one-party town--no dissent is allowed and not much would even be offered by any of the current crop of local officials. On top of that, King Street Station is located in what could be called an epicenter, if not THE epicenter of this sorry situation. Yes, many of us wanted a restaurant or at least a coffee shop on one of the upper levels. Instead, the powers-that-be wanted an art gallery of sorts showing work of immigrants. There are rooms even on the first floor which go unused. A first- and business- class lounge could easily be opened. And yes, the men's bathroom is pretty bad. But as long as the city owns it, I don't think there will be any improvement forthcoming.me years ago, returned--as if by magic--back to its former glory. We had such high hopes. But in the years since, it has not "prospered", not hardly. Seattle today is a very strange place. Luxury towers are going up at a breathtaking pace, yet there remains a severe and seemingly worsening homeless crisis, fueled by a lack of affordable housing, rampant drug use and a distressing level of mental illness. The voters send "communists" to the city council over and over again. By "communists" I mean that Seattle has become a one-party town--no dissent is allowed and not much would even be offered by any of the current crop of local officials. On top of that, King Street Station is located in what could be called an epicenter, if not THE epicenter of this sorry situation. Yes, many of us wanted a restaurant or at least a coffee shop on one of the upper levels. Instead, the powers-that-be wanted an art gallery of sorts showing work of immigrants. There are rooms even on the first floor which go unused. A first- and business- class lounge could easily be opened. And yes, the men's bathroom is pretty bad. But as long as the city owns it, I don't think there will be any improvement forthcoming.

The reason Seattle lacks affordable housing is because of Jeff Bezos.
Also personally, I have a feeling that the old Union Station will come back and displace King Street Station as the main station for Seattle
 
As much as it would be nice to have a Metropolitan Lounge... Seattle owns the station and Amtrak/WSDOT rent space. Seattle wants to charge to rent more space and Amtrak/WSDOT aren't interested in paying that cost to setup a Metropolitan Lounge.

When I lived in Seattle, I long hoped for a restaurant or bar to open in the 2nd or 3rd story of the station building, but it hasn't happened (probably because Seattle wants too much money). Plus the eight daily Amtrak departures don't bring a huge level of traffic to the station house. (Passengers on the Sounder commuter rail almost never enter the station house, because it's not connected to the Sounder tracks.

Right after I left the city, 13 Coins opened in the building across the plaza from King Street Station. The restaurant is open 24 hours a day if you want to grab a bite or a drink before an early morning Cascades or after the arrival of a very delayed Coast Starlight or Empire Builder. The restaurant is setup with lots of intimate areas that make it feel very private. It's honestly a much nicer lounge for the discerning passenger than the Metropolitan Lounge in Portland, although you'll have to pay for your drink.
 
Not sure it's likely to change anytime soon, and if it does, it probably won't be because of Amtrak. Amtrak makes up a mighty small share of station traffic, compared to the Sounder (and Amtrak long distance a mighty small share compared to the Cascades.)

Sounder passengers really do not use the station much if at all. That is apparently by design. The Sounder platforms are inaccessible directly from the station, unlike the Amtrak platforms. Nor does it have Sounder ticketing machines.

Sounder platforms are only accessed from the Weller Street Overpass, which is directly accessible from the bus stops on 4th Ave S. You can get to the Overpass from the station by a short walk south out of the main entrance, but going to the headhouse is quite out of the way for most people and serves no purpose.

Amtrak is the primary user and tenant of King Street Station, not Sounder. The station is owned by the City of Seattle.
 
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The reason Seattle lacks affordable housing is because of Jeff Bezos.
Also personally, I have a feeling that the old Union Station will come back and displace King Street Station as the main station for Seattle
Your feeling is probably quite incorrect.

First, the City of Seattle and WashDOT recently spent millions and millions of dollars restoring King Street to its original design and doing earthquake retrofits. Plus City of Seattle owns it.

Second, the throat tracks and platform tracks to Union are long gone, and a large office development is in their place. You could get to King Street's platforms by building a tunnel under 4th Ave S and the BNSF main, but why do that when there is a perfectly good station right there that you own outright and just poured millions into?
 
The reason Seattle lacks affordable housing is because of Jeff Bezos.
Also personally, I have a feeling that the old Union Station will come back and displace King Street Station as the main station for Seattle


To be fair, Seattle had a lack of affordable housing, especially in the center city, pre-Amazon.

But Amazon, its supply chain and technology partners, have definitely made it worse.
 
Sounder passengers really do not use the station much if at all. That is apparently by design. The Sounder platforms are inaccessible directly from the station, unlike the Amtrak platforms. Nor does it have Sounder ticketing machines.

Yes, it's by design - the commuters would much rather be able to get directly to the street and to the buses, than walk an extra block or two through the inaccessible backwater outside the lower-level doors of that station.

I do think the commuters might use a restaurant/bar on the upper level, if a door to do so were provided. For that matter, transfers between Amtrak and buses could be made a lot easier with the help of some good signage/advertising and some sprucing up of the path to the buses (whether inside or outside the station building.)

And despite all that, when I had a couple hours to kill waiting for the Builder in fall 2018, I still felt like Amtrak passengers were in a minority in the waiting room and that Amtrak had been relegated to a little corner of the station.

It is probably easier to fix King Street than find a new station location. But it's not a good advertisement for Amtrak, not at all.
 
I do not understand the "little corner" comment. Amtrak uses pretty much the entire first floor, between their waiting room, ticket office and baggage services. King Street isn't all that big, either.

I seldom see commuters going from the station headhouse to the overpass or vice versa. Most people I see making that trek have luggage of some sort which kind of says "not commuter" to me.
 
I do not understand the "little corner" comment. Amtrak uses pretty much the entire first floor, between their waiting room, ticket office and baggage services. King Street isn't all that big, either.

I would guess the main difference between us is whether the waiting room "feels like it is Amtrak's" or not - to me it did not (even less so than an explicitly shared waiting space like Everett) and I felt vaguely out of place / unwelcome when I was there a couple hours before train time.
 
I would guess the main difference between us is whether the waiting room "feels like it is Amtrak's" or not - to me it did not (even less so than an explicitly shared waiting space like Everett) and I felt vaguely out of place / unwelcome when I was there a couple hours before train time.
Well, regardless of however it felt to you, it is Amtrak's waiting room. It isn't used by any other carrier. It "feels" like Amtrak's waiting room to me in any case.

Everett and Seattle are my home stations, btw. I have spent a lot of time in both. And if you don't like King Street now, I can't imagine how you would have reacted to the grimy, depressing 1960's bus station-like dungeon it was before the renovation.

One thing I agree with you is the City of Seattle should try to get some food and beverage tenants in there. In the meantime, 13 Coins, a very good restaurant that is open 24/7, is literally right across the street from the main entrance. BTW, there is an entrance facing Jackson Street and and elevator down to the active station level from there. You don't have to go around to the lower King Street main entry.
 
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Yep, King Street sure could use a Lounge and some Places to eat and drink!!
Agree completely. Think current Amtrak administration has no interest in opening a lounge in Seattle, and the City of Seattle, the owner, has not been particularly active in soliciting tenants. I won't go into my opinion on why that is (bad capitalists! Bad! Bad!).

In the meantime, 13 Coins is really good if a bit pricey, open 24/7/365, and just a matter few steps away. Much closer than Lou Mitchell's is from CUS.
 
It is a pretty major station to not have a lounge but other than that nothing out of the ordinary. The renovation is pretty nice.

My wait for the Empire Builder in Seattle at King Street Station surely seems to differ from many others. Just recently; no. But, within the last few years. I was very impressed with the renovation of the Station. It's interior decor is very pleasant. Station personnel were helpful and pleasant. Baggage checking was easy. Organization in boarding the EB was well organized. Didn't need to visit a restroom; didn't need something to eat or drink. What I did find missing was a newspaper rack/machine. I would have enjoyed reading a copy of the Seattle newspaper while waiting to board the EB.
 
Your feeling is probably quite incorrect.

First, the City of Seattle and WashDOT recently spent millions and millions of dollars restoring King Street to its original design and doing earthquake retrofits. Plus City of Seattle owns it.

Second, the throat tracks and platform tracks to Union are long gone, and a large office development is in their place. You could get to King Street's platforms by building a tunnel under 4th Ave S and the BNSF main, but why do that when there is a perfectly good station right there that you own outright and just poured millions into?

The Cascadia HSR is gonna introduce a dilemma since there's no way BNSF is going to let high speed trains operate on the GN tunnel nor would let its tracks be electrified (not without retunnelling the GN Tunnel to around 8m so double-stacks can operate safely under wire, which BNSF wouldn't allow as it would seriously disrupt traffic flow). Also to mention, the old GN route is unsuitable for even 125 mph trains as it is way too winding.

As for the tracks to Union station being gone, they can just build a new underground station underneath International District/Chinatown Station (which lies right next to Union Station anyway) (see this article for reference). I brought this up on an earlier thread.

Also, Sound Transit owns Union Station.
 
Well, when HSR starts bearing any resemblance to reality maybe, since it may involve an entirely new line. Right now it is a lot of excited hot air.

Given how major infrastructure projects move in the Northwest, with the level of NIMBYism here, an actual operating HSR is 20 years in the future, minimum. Likely longer. Light rail to Everett won't happen until after 2030 and that is already in the pipeline and in my tax bill.

As long as they are running on BNSF, they'll be in King Street.
 
Well, when HSR starts bearing any resemblance to reality maybe, since it may involve an entirely new line.

It's going to involve an entirely new line, which applies both to HSR and future Sounder+Amtrak Cascades (the HSR line will follow I-5 and the new Sounder+Amtrak Cascades line will follow Washington State Route 99). After Neo-Union Station, the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder will be the only trains that will stop at King Street as they use diesels.
 
Precisely what is the source of your information on your authoritatively sounding possible HSR routes and Sounder routes?

Also, since King and Union are literally yards apart, a new underground HSR would actually make more sense to continue use of King Street Station as a head house, consolidating both surface and HSR services into one facility that is a long established, continuously used and renovated rail hub. The last train left Union in 1971. Union would have precisely the same social problems King does, given they are in same immediate vicinity and those issues are not transportation related.
 
Precisely what is the source of your information on your authoritatively sounding possible HSR routes and Sounder routes?

Also, since King and Union are literally yards apart, a new underground HSR would actually make more sense to continue use of King Street Station as a head house, consolidating both surface and HSR services into one facility that is a long established, continuously used and renovated rail hub. The last train left Union in 1971. Union would have precisely the same social problems King does, given they are in same immediate vicinity and those issues are not transportation related.

The issue with placing it under King Street Station tracks is that it would have to deal with the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel that goes directly underneath the Great Northern tunnel, unless you want to give the Northbound approach steep grades. Placing it under the Union Station building (and at the same depth as the King Street Station tracks) would allow an relatively gentler northbound approach but it would complicate access to the maintenance facility south of King Street Station as BNSF freight trains get right in the way

Solving this issue would be complicated but I think an approach can be done, as can be seen here.

To detail:
* A new tunnel will be built for BNSF freight trains. This tunnel will bypass King Street Station.
* A new tunnel will also be be built using the Great Northern tunnel as a base. This tunnel leads to a new ROW that follows Washington State Route 99.
** The Route 99 ROW includes a rebuilt Aurora Bridge with trains running on the bottom deck. Beginning at N 34th Street, the tracks rise up and it becomes an elevated rail line all the way to Everett.
* King Street Station's tracks will be rebuilt to enable through-running on all the tracks (as opposed to 3). This will mean relocating some platforms to the space between the existing through-tracks and Neo-Union Station.
* Neo-Union Station would be used just for High Speed Rail.
 
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The issue with placing it under King Street Station tracks is that it would have to deal with the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel that goes directly underneath the Great Northern tunnel, unless you want to give the Northbound approach steep grades. Placing it under the Union Station building (and at the same depth as the King Street Station tracks) would allow an relatively gentler northbound approach but it would complicate access to the maintenance facility south of King Street Station as BNSF freight trains get right in the way

Solving this issue would be complicated but I think an approach can be done, as can be seen here.

To detail:
* A new tunnel will be built for BNSF freight trains. This tunnel will bypass King Street Station.
* A new tunnel will also be be built using the Great Northern tunnel as a base. This tunnel leads to a new ROW that follows Washington State Route 99.
** The Route 99 ROW includes a rebuilt Aurora Bridge with trains running on the bottom deck. Beginning at N 34th Street, the tracks rise up and it becomes an elevated rail line all the way to Everett.
* King Street Station's tracks will be rebuilt to enable through-running on all the tracks (as opposed to 3). This will mean relocating some platforms to the space between the existing through-tracks and Neo-Union Station.
* Neo-Union Station will be used just for High Speed Rail.

Your plan is fascinating to consider. As a passenger rail-loving citizen with no transportation planning experience, I’ve put together similar fantasy transit proposals for Oklahoma City, the state of Michigan, and the New England region. When explaining these proposals, I’ve found it’s important to use “would” instead of “will” so not to confuse those who may think it’s part of an official project.
Here’s what we know about the WSDOT project: The most recent study was done in 2019 and considered three scenarios on PDF pages 36-41: https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/sites/defa...Analysis-Full-Report-with-Appendices-2019.pdf
Scenario No. 1 routes the line through a hypothetical station in downtown Seattle and Nos. 2 and 3 route the line east of Seattle through hypothetical stations in Bellevue-Redmond and Tukwila. (All three put stations in Tacoma and Everett.) In that section, some figures name “Seattle King Street Station” as the downtown Seattle stop. Union Station was not mentioned.
The study’s purpose was to make the case for Cascadia HSR, so it didn’t get into detailed alignments or station locations. Under its recommended next steps, it mentioned “developing conceptual alignment options for further study” as an additional activity to evaluate depending on available funding, and “develop specific alignment alternatives” as an activity currently unfunded. It appears those recommendations will be addressed in the next study, due on Dec. 1: https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/business/c...d-transportation-study-governance-development
Yesterday was the application deadline to head the $895,000 study. Did you submit your name? [emoji6]
 
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