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Trogdor

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Hmmm... This thread is called "Small Plane Discussion," and the last few pages are about Boeing 767s and 787s. I hate to think of the size of the planes described in the thread "Large Plane Discussion." But maybe everyone will use that thread to debate the relative merits of Beechcraft vs. Piper aircraft. :)
To separate the large from the small, I'll add my comments here. The issues of window shades (and the electronic ones on the 787) are an argument that will never fully satisfy everyone. They do save weight, which is important, but practically, they are a compromise between those that want to look out the window no matter what, and those that want the cabin as dark as possible so they can sleep/watch in-flight entertainment, etc. The dimming feature does not go completely opaque, yet they do very heavily limit the amount of light that can enter. You can still see out (albeit with a very heavy dark blue tint), but the cabin remains dark.

The other half of the controversy is that, because they are electronic, the crew can control them centrally. So if they want the cabin to be dark, they can lock it out (and likewise if they want the windows transparent, such as for takeoff and landing). That, of course, bugs the folks that want full control of the window shade to the exclusion of anyone else.
 

Devil's Advocate

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To separate the large from the small, I'll add my comments here. The issues of window shades (and the electronic ones on the 787) are an argument that will never fully satisfy everyone. They do save weight, which is important, but practically, they are a compromise between those that want to look out the window no matter what, and those that want the cabin as dark as possible so they can sleep/watch in-flight entertainment, etc. The dimming feature does not go completely opaque, yet they do very heavily limit the amount of light that can enter. You can still see out (albeit with a very heavy dark blue tint), but the cabin remains dark. The other half of the controversy is that, because they are electronic, the crew can control them centrally. So if they want the cabin to be dark, they can lock it out (and likewise if they want the windows transparent, such as for takeoff and landing). That, of course, bugs the folks that want full control of the window shade to the exclusion of anyone else.
On routes the 787 was designed to fly the usual experience was having shades open from takeoff until the first meal service, closed for the middle portion of the flight so people could rest or watch movies uninterrupted, and then open again after the pre-arrival service. This was something that happened naturally most of the time and gave passengers a useful middleground compromise to work with. Those who forgot or refused to go along were handled by the flight attendants. The problem with the new electronic shades is that they don't really help travelers regardless of their situation. Passengers who want darkness now get a weird blue glow that is apparently bad for restful sleeping while those who want to look outside are still prevented from doing so and for even more of the flight than before. The only people who seem to benefit from the new shades are bean counters, flight attendants, and gadget fans.
 
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Dakota 400

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The issues of window shades (and the electronic ones on the 787) are an argument that will never fully satisfy everyone.
Absolutely correct! I have not yet flown on a 787, but I have flown on 777's, 767's, and 757's, etc. One of the reasons that I will book a Business Class seat on a plane that has single seats by a window is to be able to control the window shade. I like natural light. I like the ability to see--whatever there may be able to be seen--outside of the plane. It irritates me no end--but, being courteous--I never say "a word" when I am seated in an aisle seat and the guest that has the window seat shuts the window shade down--sometimes even before we have taken off.

Even when it is dark, flying over areas such as Orlando en route to ATL on a flight from Argentina was very interesting to witness the size of that metropolitan area. Such provides a different perspective to one's thinking, I believe.
 

MARC Rider

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Are they the aviation equivalent of Viewliner Roomette toilets?
The thing I didn't like about them was that the touch controls didn't seem to give consistent results. Our technology has become too complicated. For similar reasons, I also hate touch-screen smartphones.

My experience on a IAD-PEK roundtrip was on the outbound, they darkened the windows a bit before it got dark outside, and then opened them up right after the "breakfast" service, and it was light out and I had a great view of the dry Chinese countryside on the approach to Beijing. On the way back, the whole flight was in darkness, so I didn't really care one way or the other. Anyway, I had an aisle seat and was not able to mess around with the windows in any case.
 

Devil's Advocate

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It irritates me no end--but, being courteous--I never say "a word" when I am seated in an aisle seat and the guest that has the window seat shuts the window shade down--sometimes even before we have taken off.
When I'm flying to a new destination I usually pick the window so I can view the arrival. On repeat visits I tend to switch to the aisle because it's more comfortable and easier to reach my luggage or use the facilities. The only time I don't want the shade raised is when we're out over the ocean in the middle of the day with little to see but enough sun to bathe the cabin in a sudden blinding light. It's really jarring when people do that even in business class. Some aircraft have external camera feeds you can view on the PTV. They tend to be kind of fuzzy but maybe if they had better optics it would benefit everyone.
 

Dakota 400

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The only time I don't want the shade raised is when we're out over the ocean in the middle of the day with little to see but enough sun to bathe the cabin in a sudden blinding light. It's really jarring when people do that even in business class.
I have experienced that! It's even worse if someone does so on an overnight flight and the cabin goes from semi-dark to bright light in seconds.
 

railiner

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I have experienced that! It's even worse if someone does so on an overnight flight and the cabin goes from semi-dark to bright light in seconds.
It's especially jarring on eastbound 'red-eyes'....just when you are finally getting into a deep sleep, someone will raise the shade, and BOOM! the blinding sun hits you. The dawn comes so unexpectedly quick on eastbounds....and the totally opaque shades do such a good job hiding that fact, that you don't expect it....:)
 

Dakota 400

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American Airlines has announced non-stop service between Dayton, Ohio and Miami, Florida starting in early November. So, the headline read. Getting into the details: the flights will be once per week on a Saturday. Leaving DAY at 6:30 A.M. and returning from Miami that same day at 9:30 P. M. with an arrival at DAY at 12:20 A. M. Sunday morning. The aircraft to be used will be a 50 seat regional jet.

According to AA PR's department, this flight will allow for people to have a day in "the Magic City" (AA's words, not mine) for a Winter respite.

Gee, thanks, American Airlines. No interest for such in this household!
 

Exvalley

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There is a maintenance facility in Dayton. This flight has everything to do with shuttling airplanes from the MIA hub to DAY for maintenance and not much to do with a convenient flight for residents of Dayton. If they can sell some seats, so be it.

Air Canada has a similar flight between Montreal and Nashville. It's a pure maintenance run.
 
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Devil's Advocate

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I was thinking along the same lines. A single weekly cycle that finishes after midnight is most likely a repositioning flight for maintenance or schedule reset purposes. The marketing and sales pitch is understandable but incidental to the primary purpose.
 

jiml

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American Airlines has announced non-stop service between Dayton, Ohio and Miami, Florida starting in early November. So, the headline read. Getting into the details: the flights will be once per week on a Saturday. Leaving DAY at 6:30 A.M. and returning from Miami that same day at 9:30 P. M. with an arrival at DAY at 12:20 A. M. Sunday morning. The aircraft to be used will be a 50 seat regional jet.

According to AA PR's department, this flight will allow for people to have a day in "the Magic City" (AA's words, not mine) for a Winter respite.

Gee, thanks, American Airlines. No interest for such in this household!
That's a long flight in an RJ!
 

Devil's Advocate

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UA flew regional jets on a SFO-SAT/AUS routing that often exceeded 1,500 miles. Flying regional jets wasn't very fun but a nonstop flight helped cancel out the smaller seats, rougher turbulence, and limited service. What's funny is that UA would price these tiny jets like you were being fed fine caviar out of a crystal bowl on a silver platter with a nacre spoon while the actual meal was a box of stale pantry snacks handed out by a rookie flight attendant.
 

railiner

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That's a long flight in an RJ!
I once took a flight from LGA to LAX with a change at XNA (Northwest Arkansas). Went from an ERJ-145 to a CRJ-700. The connection was easy, and the entire trip took only 6 hours. The reason I did that, was the nonstops were full, and I was traveling standby.....;)
 

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There was a period of time when Eastern had a Kansas City hub, LGA-MCI and EWR-MCI /LAX-MCI and SFO-MCI in both directions. planes would come in at MCO next to each other, passengers would change based on destination, and as soon as baggage moved right back out. Very inexpensive, not too much lost time, and real planes A-300, B757, L1011.....did it once with my parents, when my sister lived in CA MCI-LGA return (A300) one scary night when the pilot said he thought there was an opening in a long line of storms, but if it didn't work out we would land in Cleveland, and spend the night, because they would be dead on hours. First time I was ever scared in a plane.
 
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Exvalley

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I actually seek out regional jet flights - no matter how long the flight. My company pays for me to fly in first class, and I really like the 1-2 seating because I can snag one seat that is both a window and aisle seat. I also prefer the 2-2 seating in coach compared to 3-3 seating on larger planes. The Embraer planes are especially comfortable.
 

PVD

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That would depend on which Embraer, and who is flying them The E-Jets are pretty nice, the ERJ 135/45 can be real tight depending on the carrier. Also, UA embarked on a program to refit some CRJ with a much nicer layout recently.
 

railiner

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There was a period of time when Eastern had a Kansas City hub, LGA-MCI and EWR-MCI /LAX-MCI and SFO-MCI in both directions. planes would come in at MCO next to each other, passengers would change based on destination, and as soon as baggage moved right back out. Very inexpensive, not too much lost time, and real planes A-300, B757, L1011.....did it once with my parents, when my sister lived in CA MCI-LGA return (A300) one scary night when the pilot said he thought there was an opening in a long line of storms, but if it didn't work out we would land in Cleveland, and spend the night, because they would be dead on hours. First time I was ever scared in a plane.
If you want to fly from convenient LGA to the west coast, you have to make at least one stop, due to the old "Perimeter Rule" distance restriction. I believe the longest flight out of LGA is Denver....
 

jiml

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That would depend on which Embraer, and who is flying them The E-Jets are pretty nice, the ERJ 135/45 can be real tight depending on the carrier. Also, UA embarked on a program to refit some CRJ with a much nicer layout recently.
Agreed on all counts. AA had a lot of the earlier Embraer jets, making them hard to avoid. The 175 and 190 series are great airplanes, although some carriers are retiring the latter this year and they're not that old. Except for the oldest 100 and 200 models, CRJ's seem to have found new life. The last one I flew on pre-Covid had a sparkling new interior.
 

PVD

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Yes, Denver was the exemption at LGA, it is slightly longer than the limit but was grandfathered. For some reasons, Saturdays are also exempt, but I don't think anyone bothered with a one day a week service....
 

Michigan Mom

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Regarding the new nonstop DAY-MIA, I have doubts it's for scheduled maintenance in DAY. AA has a major hub and maintenance base in MIA. The flight times make me wonder if it's to connect cruise traffic in and out of south Florida. Many of AA's early morning departures to MIA are for that purpose. So it might be that the cruise industry is preparing to get going again in November, and the market research showed there are enough customers out of the Dayton OH area to justify service. Also the entire airline industry is depressed and capacity has been reduced to the point where some other smaller cities may lose service. Part of the coping strategy might be to identify markets where they can recoup some losses. The other reason for early MIA arrivals and late departures are connecting traffic from South America, but this seems less likely than potential cruising resurgence, because of ongoing restrictions. Maybe they're anticipating (or hoping) that situation will improve.

EDIT: I removed the word "daily" since OP had said it was Saturday only. That was the big cruising day for flights out of DTW to MIA early in the morning, so I'm still thinking that has something to do with it.
 
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PVD

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If the flight is an RJ not mainline, it might be operated by PSA as an American Eagle carrier, which I think does maintenance at Dayton, whereas MIA would be AA mainline.
 
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