Last week was probably our last LD trip on Amtrak

[crescent-zephyr]

My post was specific to the complaints the OP made. Sorry it got confusing.

I wasn't trying to knock VIA, the Roomette bed on VIA is by far the best bed I've ever had on a train. And of course the food and presentation is better.

All of the new hires I've encountered lately on Amtrak seem to be very focused on customer service. So I think Amtrak is taking it serious... it's the old, grouchy LSA's they need to get rid of, as no amount of re-training could possibly help them. (in my opinion at least).

 

[Anderson]

As far as cross country train trips go, when after dozens of trips one comes to a situation where one can almost qualify for the route, at least for me it starts getting boring. That together with the fact there is so much more to explore in the rest of the world even in terms of rail routes elsewhere, and of course the numerous non rail reachable places even stateside, life being short, and funds limited, one has to de-emphasize Amtrak travel and redirect the funds to other adventures. That is the situation I am finding myself in more and more these days.

I probably could qualify on the RF&P. I can't count how many times I've dozed off, woken up, looked out and been able to tell where I was from the trees...

Anyhow, I know what you're saying. I'm close enough to DC that to me, the system east of Chicago/New Orleans is functional transportation (and the local airline service is pretty craptacular out of PHF, which is basically a "third wheel" airport...and if I have to drive to RIC, why wouldn't I just go to RVR instead and enjoy the ride?), especially with wifi on the Silvers. Better to take the train and have a nice supper en route than to fly and be miserable. Montreal also stands out as being "trainable" due to the sheer cost of flights to/from YUL (there's an old story I have where I saved money doing Acela-Adirondack vis-a-vis flying).

Aside from that, though, my experiences on the western long-hauls have gotten a bit exhausting. Realistically I might use them once in a blue moon if I have time to kill, for variety, or if it's a case where flying the whole way would be impolitic (e.g. a NARP meeting) but I've done the Chief a ton of times. I'm really down to trying to "clear up" a handful of routes I haven't done, some rare mileage collection...and taking the train in the East where it still makes sense for me.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.

 

[me_little_me]

I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.

I beg to differ. I find dining room service at restaurants from Burger King (as little in the way of service as anything could be) to airline food when offered in coach to comparably priced restaurants re Amtrak to fine dining ones is far more consistent with a far higher average than Amtrak. And that includes Denny's.

Similarly, I find hotel service people to average much better than Amtrak.

In both cases, I put the blame squarely on management. Anywhere but Amtrak, in my opinion, local management makes sure that things are done right and offers instant "compensation" of some sort when it wasn't. When that doesn't happen, it doesn't take too many complaints to corporate to find that the local manager's position is open to applicants.

Even the military was better. When the local family temporary housing manager refused to do anything about our lack of room heat, a simple call to his boss got me the statement "You will get heat or a new room with heat" and a fix within an hour. It's not that there is someone you can complain to. It's that the problem gets fixed because management is interested in fixing it.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.

I beg to differ. I find dining room service at restaurants from Burger King (as little in the way of service as anything could be) to airline food when offered in coach to comparably priced restaurants re Amtrak to fine dining ones is far more consistent with a far higher average than Amtrak. And that includes Denny's.

Similarly, I find hotel service people to average much better than Amtrak.

In both cases, I put the blame squarely on management. Anywhere but Amtrak, in my opinion, local management makes sure that things are done right and offers instant "compensation" of some sort when it wasn't. When that doesn't happen, it doesn't take too many complaints to corporate to find that the local manager's position is open to applicants.

Once again, Amtrak has no competition.

And technically Amtrak management is Congress. Do you really think they care much if Amtrak succeeds? If Amtrak goes under they won't have to pay for it anymore.

 

[jis]

The more local issue is that Amtrak LD trains do not have an on board service manager, the ludicrous reason for that is too convoluted to go through here. In other words, the establishment manager that loses his/her job due to bad service elsewhere simply does not exist at Amtrak.

 

[JayPea]

I think there is too much of a tendency on the forum to get defensive when anyone dares to say that train travel is not for them. So be it. We all have our likes and dislikes, after all. The world would be one boring mess if we all thought alike.

As for me, I enjoy Amtrak travel even though I have been on most of the routes multiple times. I fall into the category of those who look upon train travel as the vacation itself as opposed to the ultimate destination. I have four weeks of vacation per year and a good portion of that is dedicated to Amtrak travel. One of my more enjoyable vacations, however, is a road trip I took last year from my home here in eastern Washington to the Black Hills in South Dakota, the focal points being a visit to Mt. Rushmore and a ride on the 1880's steam train. I can say I have ridden the rails in South Dakota now; something you have never been able to say riding Amtrak! I agree with the point that there is so much to see in places Amtrak can't take you to.

 

[RSG]

Here's an idea as far as the meals:

If you don't want to eat until 9 am, why not ask your SCA (the night before) to bring your breakfast to your room about 9 am? :huh: And you can get your coffee when you want in your car. Problem solved.

If you only want a salad, drink and desert for dinner, why not order a salad, the smallest meal, a drink and then desert in the DiningCar? :huh: Then when it comes, do not eat much (or any) of the main meal? Or does the server stand next to you with a gun to your head and refuse to bring you anything more until you clean your plate?

Most times, I leave much of my burger and chips at lunch, but they still give me my drink and desert!

Perhaps it's the result of growing up with parents who grew up in the Great Depression, but the idea of food waste bothers me to no end. If you're not that hungry, don't order more than you can eat. Everything that is produced and served requires resources from production to end result. Food that is prepared and not consumed just adds to the overall costs of service operation. In most instances, Amtrak service stops are in medium-to-large cities. Many cities are mandating recycling and composting efforts, not only (or even primarily) for 'green'/environmental concerns, but because waste solutions are increasingly expensive. When the locales that are service stops start charging for non-separated waste and/or per pound of waste deposited, the bean counters (if no one else) will notice and start ordering reductions in meal service and portion sizes. That won't be pleasant for anyone, save the municipal drones who don't want to have to deal with the issue in the first place.

 

[RSG]

I remember the buffet cars Amtrak had on the Silvers in the 1970's or 1980's. I hated them! You walked along the buffet line to chose your food, luckily employees carried the plates to your table for you.

If you think it's hard to walk on the train, try standing in line and choosing your hot food while holding onto plates of that hot food!

Isn't this still the type of food service on the Auto Train? It seems that would be reason enough as to why it's not been expanded/exported to other trains.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I would say that the problem with service isn't a problem exclusive to Amtrak, but is widespread all across the service and retail industries (to quote a friend, we're a country that can't effectively manage a Denny's, how can we handle conspiracies?) and not confined to the US.

I beg to differ. I find dining room service at restaurants from Burger King (as little in the way of service as anything could be) to airline food when offered in coach to comparably priced restaurants re Amtrak to fine dining ones is far more consistent with a far higher average than Amtrak. And that includes Denny's.

In my experience traveling this big country.. I 100% disagree with you. Denny's, Ihop, and Waffle House are all 3 ridiculously inconsistent. Way more so than my experiences on Amtrak. (Which I fully admit are also inconsistent regarding service). Some of the higher end chains like a Long Horn or Outback provide something pretty consistent, but even the mid-level chains like Applebees and Ruby Tuesdays have their big ups and downs.

I'm not arguing with you, it could be you have had very consistent experiences at Denny's... but I know I haven't.

 

[willem]

Perhaps it's the result of growing up with parents who grew up in the Great Depression, but the idea of food waste bothers me to no end.

Yes. I recall a sign in an all-you-can-eat buffet. "Take all you want, but eat all you take." It made sense then and now.

 

[Chey]

While I would agree that the AGR points required for TWO people to travel LD in a sleeper may have increased substantially this year, I have found so far that ALL of my trips in a sleeper traveling alone have required FEWER points in the 2.0 system than they did in prior years.

Unfortunately the trip I'm thinking of taking is now 50% more points than it would have been before, Strangely, it is slightly less in dollars than a trip I recently took that was half the distance, but that's probably a function of the day I've picked to go.

As to the other complaints the original poster had, the only trouble I have sleeping is when the train makes a stop. It doesn't help that I have to sit up at that point and see what's going on, I just can't stand to miss anything,,, As far as the heavy meals, I can't tolerate a lot of carbs so I ask the DCA to leave off the potato or the hamburger bun or the chips. If they bring them, I don't eat them, as much as I hate to waste food. I bring my own breakfast of protein bars or jerky.

As has been said, train travel isn't for everyone. Neither is long distance car travel or airplane - that definitely describes me, which is why I take the train whenever possible.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

All of the new hires I've encountered lately on Amtrak seem to be very focused on customer service. So I think Amtrak is taking it serious... it's the old, grouchy LSA's they need to get rid of, as no amount of re-training could possibly help them. (in my opinion at least).

This matches my experience as well. Apparently the hiring managers got the memo about customer service being a priority. Hopefully the tide is turning on the operations side as well.

In my experience traveling this big country.. I 100% disagree with you. Denny's, Ihop, and Waffle House are all 3 ridiculously inconsistent. Way more so than my experiences on Amtrak. (Which I fully admit are also inconsistent regarding service). Some of the higher end chains like a Long Horn or Outback provide something pretty consistent, but even the mid-level chains like Applebees and Ruby Tuesdays have their big ups and downs. I'm not arguing with you, it could be you have had very consistent experiences at Denny's... but I know I haven't.

Perhaps it's a matter of once you find a good chain location it tends to be dependable for as long as the management remains intact, whereas on Amtrak every time you ride you're forced to play service roulette, even if it's the same route over and over again. On the other hand Amtrak menus are becoming so generic these days that it's starting to get tedious just to avoid eating the exact same meals over and over again, even with carefully timed schedules that seem to be setup to serve as few meals as possible. So I guess in that sense the food itself can be amazingly consistent.

 

[benale]

The title of this thread is about the OP's last long distance trip. I have a great trip planned for next month. LAX to FTL in a roomette..actually ELP to FTL and coach from LAX to ELP. This will probably be my last LD trip in a sleeper for quite some time. Reason is because I got this trip on points using the old system. 20,000 points for a two zone roomette. I took the longest way possible. Under AGR 2.0 there is no way I can get enough points for another big trip. I relied on that 100 minimum to achieve points quickly. Being semi retired with limited funds, there is no way I can afford sleeper prices.

I've taken many cross country LD trips over the last twenty five years. Most of these trips were just to take the train. I've always considered the train to BE the vacation. My last several trips in sleepers was with my wife and I always ended up taking the upper bunk. I feel claustrophobic up there and last time I felt dizzy. It was not a pleasant experience. Another problem is having to use the bathroom. It is quite an ordeal just attempting to get up and go. This time around I'm going alone and I'll be quite content having my bottom bunk back and spending four nights in a roomette.

The train ride is always an adventure. If i don't sleep all through the night, thats fine. I love listening to the sound of the train,and the wonderful feeling of being in a moving hotel.I go to all the meals and I have no complaints about the comfort of the mattress. Being this will be my last big trip on points, I wanted to go out with a bang. I've always taken each trip with a great sense of adventure and whatever minor obstacle I encounter, I can always overcome it.

Yeah,this is my last long distance sleeper trip. Unlike the original poster, it's because of the devaluation of AGR, not because I'm unhappy with the service.

 

[Manny T]

I have what is probably a peculiar reaction to the above post for someone on AU. I applaud Amtrak for AGR 2.0. I think we know that the U.S. passenger rail system is faltering. There are innumerable reasons for this, not a single cause by any means. No one person, nor one set of practices, is responsible for revenue not keeping pace with expenses. But when I read about people who "rely" on point minimums to amass points, and then when they "earn" an award "take the longest route possible," I think about the way Amtrak earns revenue and the way Amtrak loses revenue--and if AGR 2.0 makes it more likely that Amtrak will earn rather than lose in future, I'm all for it. That AGR's prior rules permitted x, y and z to happen is not the point; those days are over--that is the point.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

If this post here makes you feel good, so be it. Amtrak will just get others to replace you . . .

. . . Again the problem is Amtrak has a monopoly on intercity train travel. . . .

I'd list the monopoly status as almost the last of the problems.

Fundamentally, the problem is that Amtrak works for Congress, in much the same way Cinderella worked for her wicked step-mother.

Every aspect of the operations -- from the amount of advertising to the well-worn condition of the equipment fleet and even more so the acute shortage of equipment in any working condition to the several large gaps in the national system to the very bad State of Good Repair on the Northeast Corridor to once-a-day trains (never mind 3-per-week trains) where there need to be two frequencies ands on and on and on -- every aspect is harmed by the crippling lack of funding because of haters in Congress and often enuff haters in the various Presidential Administrations (the current one being the only exception to the rule).

C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?

No, Amtrak can't have nice things. That isn't due to monopoly. It's due to the politics of the hate-the-government cult.

 

[RSG]

I have what is probably a peculiar reaction to the above post for someone on AU. I applaud Amtrak for AGR 2.0. I think we know that the U.S. passenger rail system is faltering. There are innumerable reasons for this, not a single cause by any means. No one person, nor one set of practices, is responsible for revenue not keeping pace with expenses. But when I read about people who "rely" on point minimums to amass points, and then when they "earn" an award "take the longest route possible," I think about the way Amtrak earns revenue and the way Amtrak loses revenue--and if AGR 2.0 makes it more likely that Amtrak will earn rather than lose in future, I'm all for it. That AGR's prior rules permitted x, y and z to happen is not the point; those days are over--that is the point.

I would generally agree with you. While I sympathize with benale and others who use AGR points as their primary means of having a comfortable experience, I see them as simply a reward for existing travel (and maybe a few purchases). It's been quite awhile since anyone flew the airlines just to accumulate frequent flyer miles or used miles for anything other than to reduce a large ticket tab or get amenities which used to be free. So it is that the nation's passenger rail system should follow suit.

 

[RSG]

No, Amtrak can't have nice things. That isn't due to monopoly. It's due to the politics of the hate-the-government cult.

That is a vast oversimplification of the issue. The biggest problem in the current way of doing business is that there are some operations--notably transportation--which function best on a five-to-ten year horizon. Yet, the US federal government has only done annual budgeting (and in recent years, no budget at all). My senior US Senator is attempting to have Congress go to biennial budgeting, much as my state legislature does. Though I suspect he will be dead before that actually occurs, at least it's a start. Presumably a five-year window for transportation planning (and thus, Amtrak funding) would be a little more realistic under a biennial system than planning for five years of operations and signing a reverse IOU each year after the first year.
A compounding issue is the lack of awareness of transportation issues not only among the general public but among congrescritters as well. I would bet that the average congressperson outside of the NEC and the few hot rail corridors (IL, MI, CA, etc) is even aware of the scope of Amtrak or why it exists and why it continues to exist. I've met fellow passengers who were unaware before their trip that the government essentially owns Amtrak. My junior US Senator loves to brag about how he only works in Washington but lives at home. In reality, he spends most of his time at airports (two in particular) and in airplanes and in vehicles driving to and from his 'home' airport (which is usually in another state). Amtrak, to him, is probably his view of what the short bus of transportation looks like. When referencing transportation options, the only two that most travelers mention are "fly or drive", yet this is as incomplete as contemplating chicken or fish for dinner (or chicken or beef, in my part of the country). That there may be a viable third option (aside from intercity bus) is akin to saying that people actually do win the large prizes in the state lotteries: it's rumored to exist, but no one they know actually has. When you have that level of unawareness of a method of travel which has existed for 40+ years, then any type of support for same--particularly financial--is going to be a tough sell.

 

[caravanman]

It seems to me that we each have our diverse reasons for continuing to ride Amtrak, or giving up the trains... After a trip with duff staff, or a cold roomette, I wonder why I am doing it. A while later, l start to get itchy feet, and forgive the last upsets and set off again with fresh enjoyment of the rides ahead. Age is unkind, it makes life awkward, with top bunks, nocturnal bathroom visits, and dietary and mobility problems. If train rides are our hobby, a fun way to get around, then we try to overcome and tolerate these issues... There will come a point for most of us where either we, or Amtrak will have changed so much that we have to call a halt. How and why will be different for all, but each will be valid for ourselves.

I wish Benale all the very best for his last big AGR trip, enjoy that bottom bunk!

Presumably Amtrak got overall financial benefit from the old AGR system, they weren't just giving out "free trips" because one carried a credit card with their name on it ? As train ridership increases, and more seats/berths could be sold at the full price, it is understandable that they would cut back on the "perks", I guess. Anyway, we need to stop buying stuff we don't need, just to ride the trains, it is bad for the planet!

(I will just ignore the fumes from the diesel train locos being bad for the planet... )

Ed.

 

[NW cannonball]

It seems to me that we each have our diverse reasons for continuing to ride Amtrak, or giving up the trains... After a trip with duff staff, or a cold roomette, I wonder why I am doing it. A while later, l start to get itchy feet, and forgive the last upsets and set off again with fresh enjoyment of the rides ahead. Age is unkind, it makes life awkward, with top bunks, nocturnal bathroom visits, and dietary and mobility problems. If train rides are our hobby, a fun way to get around, then we try to overcome and tolerate these issues... There will come a point for most of us where either we, or Amtrak will have changed so much that we have to call a halt. How and why will be different for all, but each will be valid for ourselves.

I wish Benale all the very best for his last big AGR trip, enjoy that bottom bunk!

Presumably Amtrak got overall financial benefit from the old AGR system, they weren't just giving out "free trips" because one carried a credit card with their name on it ? As train ridership increases, and more seats/berths could be sold at the full price, it is understandable that they would cut back on the "perks", I guess. Anyway, we need to stop buying stuff we don't need, just to ride the trains, it is bad for the planet!

(I will just ignore the fumes from the diesel train locos being bad for the planet... )

Ed.

Concur.

I don't ride Amtrak because of the "points". I ride because Amtrak gets me where I want to be at a reasonable price, and I get to see places, and meet people I otherwise never would have met. (some of those people are **oles, but most of us are **oles sometimes).

MSP to Pismo Beach, for example. Loved the ride, loved the destination, flying or driving or both would be outside my pay scale.

If this thread goes to "I coulda had a free trip from "A" to "B" and that's gone, damn Amtrak." Redirect to "Guest Rewards 'with a reference to "green stamps" and "Frequent Flyers" -- or maybe to /dev/null

Take it like it is -- Amtrak has a lot going for it, but it depends on where and when you go, and personal preference, and budget.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?

And where do you suggest that four or five billion to come from? You know who's going to pay for it if it happens.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?

And where do you suggest that four or five billion to come from? You know who's going to pay for it if it happens.

One less war in the Middle East would pay for a lousy $4 or $5 Billion within a month. You can figure out what to do with the rest of the money saved.

Or one less super duper aircraft carrier would cover 3 years of investment:

Senator John McCain said huge cost overruns on a new class of aircraft carriers built by Huntington Ingalls Industries made it "one of the most spectacular acquisition debacles" in recent years, and the Navy needed different options for the future.

The USS Gerald R. Ford, the first of three new nuclear-powered, city-sized aircraft carriers, is expected to cost $12.9 billion, or $2.4 billion more than originally expected, McCain told a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee he chairs. The second ship, the USS John F. Kennedy, is $2.5 billion over budget at $11.5 billion, and five years behind schedule.

McCain blamed the problems on unrealistic plans and poor cost estimates, and said Congress and the Navy should examine a return to smaller, cheaper aircraft carriers that could attract new competitors.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

No, Amtrak can't have nice things. That isn't due to monopoly. It's due to the politics of the hate-the-government cult.

That is a vast oversimplification of the issue. The biggest problem in the current way of doing business is that there are some operations--notably transportation--which function best on a five-to-ten year horizon. Yet, the US federal government has only done annual budgeting (and in recent years, no budget at all). My senior US Senator is attempting to have Congress go to biennial budgeting, much as my state legislature does. Though I suspect he will be dead before that actually occurs, at least it's a start. Presumably a five-year window for transportation planning (and thus, Amtrak funding) would be a little more realistic under a biennial system than planning for five years of operations and signing a reverse IOU each year after the first year.

Indeed, NASA also has the same complaint. The objectives, to say nothing of the actual money, practically change with every new Congress and president. How are you supposed to plan anything if you don't know what you'll be expected to do tomorrow? One commentator once said it was akin to the Navy having to ask for ships every year. Not new ships, mind you, ships in the first place.

C'mon. Try appropriating just a four or five Billion a year for two terms of a Presidency. You don't think Boardman and the team wouldn't know how to invest it in more and better Amtrak?

And where do you suggest that four or five billion to come from? You know who's going to pay for it if it happens.

One less war in the Middle East would pay for a lousy $4 or $5 Billion within a month. You can figure out what to do with the rest of the money saved.

Or one less super duper aircraft carrier would cover 3 years of investment:

Senator John McCain said huge cost overruns on a new class of aircraft carriers built by Huntington Ingalls Industries made it "one of the most spectacular acquisition debacles" in recent years, and the Navy needed different options for the future.

The USS Gerald R. Ford, the first of three new nuclear-powered, city-sized aircraft carriers, is expected to cost $12.9 billion, or $2.4 billion more than originally expected, McCain told a hearing of the Senate Armed Services Committee he chairs. The second ship, the USS John F. Kennedy, is $2.5 billion over budget at $11.5 billion, and five years behind schedule.

McCain blamed the problems on unrealistic plans and poor cost estimates, and said Congress and the Navy should examine a return to smaller, cheaper aircraft carriers that could attract new competitors.

Doesn't work that way. That $13 billion for the USS Ford is spread over nine years. There's no $4 billion a year to use to cover something else because even the carrier isn't getting $4 billion a year.

 

[neroden]

Yes, it DOES work that way. The Navy is being given ships it doesn't even WANT. There's a graveyard of brand new tanks for the Army which it doesn't want.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/9/lawmakers-force-pentagon-to-buy-tanks-keep-ships-a/?page=all

Even if the Navy does want the supercarriers... they're militarily useless! Garbage. Tens of billions of dollars in floating coffins. The Navy still thinks it's fighting the 1945 war.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-future-of-the-us-navy-2015-10

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-navy-s-big-mistake-building-tons-of-supercarriers-79cb42029b8#.2ec6bcs8j

Military history and strategy is a hobby of mine, which I don't usually talk about. The reason I don't usually talk about it is that it's obvious to any student of the field that the US has been bungling continuously since the 1950s -- and people don't want to hear about it.

The military budget is consuming roughly $1 trillion / year, and it seems to be completely wasted, since every military intervention the US has staged since the end of the Kosovo campaign has *worsened* our geopolitical position. It seems to me that the military isn't being operated for national defense -- it's being operated for some other purpose. Some combination of pork barrel spending and grifting by military contractors, perhaps.

$1 trillion per year is $1,000 billion per year. We could cut 1% off of it -- and the waste is obviously much larger than that -- and have $10 billion a year.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Let's compromise. We'll continue to fund the military, airlines and Amtrak. However, lets combine our efforts. Here's a look at our new Bomber fleet:

Military pilots will fly the plane, with first and second class passengers (now known as business class) in the plane. Third class passengers looking for a cheap rate will have to earn their keep. The price will be lower but they will man the Amfleet-2 and drop precision bombs out of the window of AM-2 door.

I think this will be my platform for office! Write in Thirdail7 on the ballot!