Major Service Disruption on NE Trains

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Chuck Scarborough, one of the news slingers on WNBC New York just told of a woman who reported it took her 8 hours to get from Grand Central Terminal to Boston on Amtrak. Whether she started on Metro-North and crossed over to Amtrak up the line or realized she had to get over to Penn Station to take Amtrak all the way was not mentioned.
 
ne52 said:
Question for the board on the bustitution... Anyone know why Vermonter would turn back at SPG? I would have assumed it would continue to NHV under diesel and then transfer passengers to a regional instead of leaving a gap.
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AFAIK, there is not a wye at NHV that could be used. The shuttles have a P-42 on one end and a cab car on the other end.
 
Well, there is a loop track at New Haven, but I have no idea who owns it, or what kind of insanity would be required to access it and the platforms.
 
SubwayNut said:
Metro-North has had some really terrible luck this year, the New Haven Line deraliment in May, the Hudson Line freight derailment in July in goes on...

For Clarification the diesel fleet:

The Metro-North Dual-Mode Diesel Trainsets and Genesis P32AC-DM locomotives primarily run hourly or better service on the Hudson Line from Poughkeepsie trough Croton-Harmon into Grand Central.

They also provide four rush hour peak direction only rush hour through round trips from Diesel Territory at the northern end of the Harlem Line between Wassaic and Southeast, and up the Danbury Branch.

The Wassaic, Danbury and Waterbury branches during off peak hours are served by Shoreliner cars (that can operate into Grand Central) and diesel only Brookville BL20-GH Locomotives, their modified shunting locos that have some HEP. Shore Line East use the ex-VRE Mafersa Cars that can't operate into Grand Central because they lack automatic doors.

One idea though I've thought of would perhaps discontinue through service on the upper Hudson Line, and run shuttle service between Croton Harmon and Poughkeepsie, connecting to additional electric service using the numerous M2, M4, M6, M8s that are now basically out of commission to operate except for the Stamford-New Haven service and the New Caanan Shuttle (they can't all be stranded beyond Stamford).

Yes if you look at a Metro-North roster you'll also find Comet Vs but these are dedicated to New Jersey Transit service in their joint equipment pool. I don't think they even fit into Grand Central.
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Even if they were somehow all stranded there, you could always use a late-night diesel move to drag a few of them back down.

By the way, is the power out into GCT? Or is it just on the New Haven "main" further up?
 
the_traveler said:
The shuttles have a P-42 on one end and a cab car on the other end.
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As does the Vermonter North of New Haven.
SubwayNut said:
Yes if you look at a Metro-North roster you'll also find Comet Vs but these are dedicated to New Jersey Transit service in their joint equipment pool. I don't think they even fit into Grand Central.
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The Comet Vs fit fine into GCT. But they are needed for providing west of Hudson service. NJT does not have any spares pending repair of all flood damaged equipment.
Anderson said:
By the way, is the power out into GCT? Or is it just on the New Haven "main" further up?
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Only New Haven Line overhead power is affected. No effect on third rail power into GCT. Hudson and Harlem lines are running fine.
 
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SPG said:
I see a focus on the Vermonter in this thread and want to add the the Vermonter IS operating SAB-SPG-SAB as a train, with busses SPG/NHV, and alternate regional train service NYP/NHV. If anyone had plans traveling between SPG and points North by Train, you should be good to go during this disruption.
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That is good news for us since we were going SPG to ESX in BC on Saturday afternoon. May have to adjust our shuttle points runs down to New Haven in the morning if things are still disrupted. :)
 
Yep. They have started notifying all those booked on Acelas and offering them alternate transportation on Regionals. Of course they also accept outright cancellation for full refund too.

I had a Acela points run planned for Boston on Sunday which they cancelled and offered a refund or alternate arrangement on Regionals. I accepted the refund offer, and booked myself an Acela points run to Washington instead, and surprisingly through judicious choice of trains from and to Metropark, it did not even cost any more.it did not cost anymore!
 
NE933 said:
Anyone in Washington STILL believe that we do not need to create budget allocations on rail infrastructure?
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On an overall scale, part of this is on Washington, agreed. But at least some of this, IMHO, falls on the states as well over the scope of the last 50 years or so. Let's not forget that a bunch of Long Island Republicans nearly quit the party over disinvestment in the LIRR at one time. Funding is flowing now, but there's a backlog of 30-40 years of needed improvements that the states have never put the money into that they needed to. Some of it was bad federal funding priorities, agreed, but a lot of the underlying attitudes trickled down to the state level as well. Put another way, it's not like CT, NY, IL, etc. were fighting those priorities tooth and nail.
 
From this particular incident the primary conclusion to draw is that we need to pay more attention to commercial power infrastructure. There was no rail infrastructure failure directly involved in this one. Disruption of service was caused by failure of a 132kV cable that feeds power to the substation that feeds the traction power. And incidentally the substation and feed involved is relatively new that were put into service when the New Haven line was converted from 25Hz to 60Hz.

That is not to say that rail infrastructure also needs attention. But this incident would not be one to use to make that argument. The way this incident can be used is in terms of the disruption that unavailability of rail service can cause, and should be used to make the argument about funding more and better rail infrastructure.
 
These are true. And, by rail infrastructure does not just mean rail-ties-ballast. It also means electricity, signals, station platforms, bridges and tunnels. There is rightful blame on the states, and I don't think any of them has that amount of money on hand to make up the backlog, which raises a good question then on who's lap does it fall on. When we vote and pay for our leaders they are entrusted to be good stewards of this 'stuff'. I don't know how to lay a track, or to build a power line, and neither do they, but they are supposed to know to devote some money to keep things in shape. Communicate with rail CEO's, on what's happening and such. And this for all modes, including airports. Though I advocate for trains I also want our airplanes to take off and land safely.

This incident is not connected to Amtrak's many problems with agining wires/catenary power NY - DC; but, still appropriate to bring it up anyway and debate on how we are goiing to fix and resolve it.
 
Last 3 cars on #178 tonight are Horizon coaches, to add extra capacity, with no Acela service NYP/BOS. A Horizon coach is definitely something different to see going up and down the corridor.
 
the_traveler said:
ne52 said:
Question for the board on the bustitution... Anyone know why Vermonter would turn back at SPG? I would have assumed it would continue to NHV under diesel and then transfer passengers to a regional instead of leaving a gap.
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AFAIK, there is not a wye at NHV that could be used. The shuttles have a P-42 on one end and a cab car on the other end.
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What does a wye have to do with anything? :unsure:

Amtrak doesn't need a wye to turn the shuttles at NHV, so I'm not sure why they'd need one for the Vermonter.
 
Turning the Vermonter at SPG is all about the times. On a daily basis the Engineer from Brattleboro is spinning around at Springfield from 55 to take 56 north, and the times are just right to allow that to happen. 55 arrives at 2:40 PM, 56 departs at 3:15, that's as good as it is going to get. When service is suspended north of SPG for one reason or another the set also turns at SPG because 56 arrives at 3:00 and 55 departs at 2:50. With the amount of a hit you'll take because of transfers from the buses for 55 this is the perfect spot to turn the train around and send it back to DC.
 
I was passing through NYP this evening around 5:45 when the southbound Vermonter's stops and was listed on both the arrival and departure boards as On Time. All the northbound Acela's were canceled, Regionals were late.

Just checked and someone was clearly not paying attention to the monitors in Penn Station. It looks like the Vermonter did get through today with 55 losing an hour sitting in New Haven southbound (not any more time Ar. 4:34, Dp. 5:55), and 56 losing an hour and a half between NYP and STM (it left NYP at 11:40, 7 minutes late, stopped in STM at 1:50, an hour and a half late) WOW!

I stopped by the ClubAcela (I'm S+) for its clean bathroom (just taking my normal daily train ride, on the subway) and it was a total crowded zoo, with a woman having a rant at one of the agents as I checked in (it sounded like a BOS) related delayed train and communication issues. Of course the basket of chips stayed empty during my 10 minutes in there although I saw some open bags of UTZ's chips.
 
The 66 was running late today - about 30 minutes behind. All in all I guess that isn't TOO bad but that train has a lot of padding and long dwell times!
 
I was booked on AE 2252 today from NWK-BOS. Amtrak e-mailed and called me yesterday to tell me that my train was cancelled.

Rats! I had an upgrade coupon I was gonna use :angry:

I was able to call and get one of three remaining coach seats on Regional 174.

According to Amtrak's Web Site, #190 is scheduled to arrive in BOS 60 mins late but the other northbound regionals appear to be running early or close to on time (esp 170, which arrived in NHV 39 minutes early!).
 
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The good news about running on diesel through the Mets is that for the most part it doesn't really effect run times since maximum speed permitted out there is only 90 MPH IIRC. The biggest issue you'll run into is that unless you're running a diesel that's setup with ACSES you'll have a much larger speed reduction when your signal drops since you don't get a conforming speed, you automatically go down to Approach Medium at best (30 MPH).
 
At present the engine just needs to be equipped with the MNRR Cab signaling system. ACSES I don't believe is active yet on MNRR. It is in the process of being installed.
 
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I know ACSES isn't active, but I believe an ACSES signal unit can still pick up more signal aspects than the standard unit, even in MNRR territory. A standard cab signal unit can only display four aspects (Clear, Approach Medium, Approach, Restricting) whereas the ACSES unit can pick up things like Cab Speed, Approach Limited, etc.
 
battalion51 said:
I know ACSES isn't active, but I believe an ACSES signal unit can still pick up more signal aspects than the standard unit, even in MNRR territory. A standard cab signal unit can only display four aspects (Clear, Approach Medium, Approach, Restricting) whereas the ACSES unit can pick up things like Cab Speed, Approach Limited, etc.
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But MNRR does not have those additional aspects. For getting the additional aspects you have to have the second pulse code carrier frequency, which MNRR is in the process of installing, and it is not critical for MNRR because most of the additional aspects are for speeds above 80mph.
The original cab signaling system had the basic 4 aspects on a single carrier frequency. Even if a train is equipped with ACSES unit, it cannot get the additional aspects from a piece of track that does not have the second carrier frequency, and it simply falls back to the original aspects.

There is no cab aspect for approach limited in the old or the upgraded ACSES system. The only cab aspects are:

150 mph Clear (Requires second carrier frequency. Legacy Units get Clear 125 mph)

125 mph Clear Original PRR System Code (originally in PRR it meant nominally 80mph)

100 mph Clear Used for high density signaling (Requires second carrier frequency, legacy units don't receive this)

80 mph Cab Speed Used for most high speed turnouts. (Requires second carrier frequency, legacy Units get Approach Medium 45mph)

60 mph Cab Speed Used for high density signaling. Compatible with LIRR ASC System (Amtrak legacy units couldn't get this even though it is on the old carrier frequency)

45 mph Approach Medium Original PRR System Code

30 mph Approach Original PRR System Code

20 mph Restricting

0 mph ACSES only, not available in cab signal

For a turnout you will get a Cab Speed with the appropriate speed for the diverging track
 
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