Major Twilight Shoreliner Changes

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Amfleet

Engineer
Joined
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3,390
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Southeastern, Massachusetts
As of April 29 the Twilight Shoreliner will no longer carry a Sleeping Car and it will not go south of Washgington, DC to Newport News, VA.

Train 67

Dep. BOS 10:00pm

Arr. WAS 7:30am

Train 66

Dep. WAS 10:00pm

Arr. BOS 8:15am

The times arriving and departing WAS and BOS seem better. It is just too bad, however, the Sleeping Car has to go, but the shortage of Viewliners is getting too severe.

Amtrak has added a seperate WAS to NPN train with Unreserved Coach only.

Train 77

Dep. WAS 8:00am

Arr. NPN 12:05pm

Train 76

Dep. NPN 2:45pm

Arr. WAS 6:40pm
 
Now I don't know where you found this one, but there does seem to be some truth to this.

The time changes are indeed in Arrow after April 29, and the train does seem to terminate at WAS. However in a rather odd occurrence, there are no standard bedrooms available in the months from May through September, but yet you can book a deluxe bedroom.

So something is wrong there, as I'm not aware of Amtrak owning any Deluxe only sleepers. Even the so-called deluxe Superliner sleepers used on the Auto Train still have standard bedrooms downstairs, even though there are none upstairs. Plus of course they wouldn't fit through the tunnels, nor could they platform anywhere on the NEC.

It could be that Amtrak just didn't update Arrow properly, but it is odd. I also don't understand why this move is necessary. :( With the return of some repaired Superliner equipment, I don't understand why the Cardinal isn't being returned to Superliner equipment thereby freeing up those Viewliners.
 
With the return of some repaired Superliner equipment, I don't understand why the Cardinal isn't being returned to Superliner equipment thereby freeing up those Viewliners.
Only a Superliner Transition Sleeper and two Sleeping Cars have been returned to service. It will probably take another Sleeping Car, 2 Dining Cars, 2 Lounges, and 4 Coaches before the Cardinal can get it's Superliners back.
Now I don't know where you found this one, but there does seem to be some truth to this.
You can find the post here at Trainorders.
 
Amfleet said:
With the return of some repaired Superliner equipment, I don't understand why the Cardinal isn't being returned to Superliner equipment thereby freeing up those Viewliners.
Only a Superliner Transition Sleeper and two Sleeping Cars have been returned to service. It will probably take another Sleeping Car, 2 Dining Cars, 2 Lounges, and 4 Coaches before the Cardinal can get it's Superliners back.
Now I don't know where you found this one, but there does seem to be some truth to this.
You can find the post here at Trainorders.
Actually based upon the equipment that was lost in the Capital Limited crash, which is what pushed Amtrak beyond the minimum equipment levels, all they need is one diner to be released from BG in order to return the Cardinal to Superliner equipment.

They were only short on sleepers and diners after the crash of the Cap. With two sleepers now out of BG, that replaces what was lost in the wreck of the Cap. Now all they need in the diner. :)
 
I'll have to go and double check, but I seem to recall that it went to single level after the crash of the Cap.
 
Well I've just recieved an email from another source that confirms some of what Amfleet first posted. However, this source says that the sleeper is staying. He also has a few other interesting tidbits.

"All: Remain calm - The Federal, which will replace the TwilightShoreliner, will indeed have a sleeper. The car will be open for boarding

at 9PM in Both Boston and Washington. There will also be an upscale

business class car and a table car and in addition to more user friendly

arrival times, Amtrak intends to make the service more attractive with

more amenities - (mints on the pillow???). Excelsior!

Wayne Davis"
This came from the Northeast Corridor group on Yahoo. It should be noted that this is a rather reliable source, as Wayne Davis is the father of the Downeaster service.
 
So there will still be an overnight train between BOS and WAS? If it is called the Federal, that name beats out Twilight Shoreliner 10 times over. It is also good to hear about an upscale Business Class, the addtion of a Dinette, and early boarding times. Now if one could only stay on the train an hour after arrival in WAS.
 
Amfleet said:
So there will still be an overnight train between BOS and WAS? If it is called the Federal, that name beats out Twilight Shoreliner 10 times over. It is also good to hear about an upscale Business Class, the addtion of a Dinette, and early boarding times. Now if one could only stay on the train an hour after arrival in WAS.
Well 7:30 is a heck of a lot better than the current 5:50 AM arrival.
 
Well, what do I think of all this? I approach all such news with both excitement and skepticism, both with the validity of the story and with the possible results from such a change.

First of all, once again I say that just because somebody posted this on Trainorders does not necessarily make it true. Pointing to a newspaper article or a publication such as Trains Magazine or a website run by a passenger advocacy organization has a lot more merit.

With that out of the way, I've communicated by e-mail with Wayne Davis myself, and consider him to be a reliable source as well. Wayne is the founder and President of Train Riders Northeast, a NARP affiliate that handles much of the New England states. It was through his dedication of 13 years that the Downeaster came to be.

I've also done my checking with Amtrak's reservations site, and this does point to the new times mentioned above, as well as the splitting of the train at Washington, DC.

I find a few positives and negatives with all of this:

Positives

 

* Splitting the train into BOS-WAS and WAS-NPN segments helps the timekeeping of each section. No longer should the northbound overnight train out of Washington be subject to delays caused by CSX malfunctions to the south. You'll notice they allowed plenty of dwell time in Washington between #76 (NPN-WAS) and #66 (WAS-BOS) to allow for delays in Virginia.

 

* The name Twilight Shoreliner is gone, gone, gone at last. As was pointed out earlier, any name would be better. Night Owl comes to mind, but I guess that is considered used already. But then so is Federal. There's a whole gamut of names to choose from, since the train names along the Northeast Corridor itself were removed in favor of generics like NortheastDirect, then Acela Regional, and now soon Regional. Instead of the Federal, Amtrak could have just called this train Regional 66 and Regional 67.

 

* The train needs its sleepers, or it can and will fail. If the story about it keeping its sleepers is in fact true, then having them set out in Washington and Boston for boarding well before departure should help business. I think the adjusted arrival times in both Washington and Boston will make the need to allow occupancy of the sleepers after arrival time a moot point.

 

* The later arrival in Boston is just right for those who want to catch the first Downeaster of the day to points north. Before, the layover was agonizing in the morning hours, particularly on colder days. Now if only we could get that dedicated bus (or through fares on the Orange Line) between the stations we would be in still better shape!

 

* Continuing the second daily frequency (and 3 on Fridays) to Newport News is a wise move. There is particularly much reverse Washington-Richmond business that would have been lost if the frequency south of Washington had not been maintained.

Negatives

 

* Through service between the Boston-Washington NEC and Virginia points is lost, although it will be maintained on the daytime trains (such as 94, 95, etc.)

 

* I am skeptical about the premium service that has been discussed. The former Night Owl was reinvented as the Twilight Shoreliner (TS), and with this change (and the extension into Virginia) came a Viewliner sleeper, a pillow (and for a short while, a blanket) for each passenger including those in coach class, use of New York's then-Metropolitan Lounge for ALL boarding passengers including coach class, a special Twilight Lounge only for Business Class and sleeper passengers, and a special logo and matching motif painted on dedicated cars for this service. Well, much of that has been lost over the years -- only the one sleeper remains but it's now taken from the long distance pool, while the former TS dedicated sleepers appear on other trains. Now, we're talking of re-inventing the steel wheel again, and calling it the Federal with some added amenities. Just how long will they last, especially with continued equipment shortages?

 

* Back essentially to the hours of the old Night Owl, the departure times from New York go from approximately 1 AM to 3:15 AM northbound and 2:35 AM southbound. And the New York arrivals are about 20 minutes before those times, not much better. So in order to have better Boston or Washington calling times, the New York market loses here.

Change is good, but I would hope that Amtrak compared its ridership counts for the Night Owl with the Twilight Shoreliner to come up with this plan. Let's see how things develop.
 
Guess what! The Federal is the old pre-Amtrak name of one of the overnight BOS-WAS trains. Gunn probably remembers it well.

It was the Federal which lost its brakes and crashed into DC Union Station around the time of Eisenhower's inauguration, early 50's.. It made for some rather ludicrous photos, huge electric locomotives squashing benches, etc.

And--long live set-out sleepers! Some day, maybe.
 
First of all, once again I say that just because somebody posted this on Trainorders does not necessarily make it true.
It actually came from Gene Poon who is a reliable source and has access to ARROW (I believe he's a travel agent). However, ARROW only showed that the Sleeper cut and no more service beyond DC. He later replied in my post regarding the Federal that he indeed received an e-mail from Wayne Davis about the new train. :)
 
I was on the Cardnal on Feb 27th and the Card running to Chicago WAS superliner with transition sleepers on both ends to pick up the lone coach from the KCard. I was on the Kcard going to louisville KY and that was a long stop over in INDY
 
Amfleet said:
First of all, once again I say that just because somebody posted this on Trainorders does not necessarily make it true.
It actually came from Gene Poon who is a reliable source and has access to ARROW (I believe he's a travel agent). However, ARROW only showed that the Sleeper cut and no more service beyond DC. He later replied in my post regarding the Federal that he indeed received an e-mail from Wayne Davis about the new train. :)
Yes, Gene Poon is one of the 4 people (5 including myself!) whose information I trust over on Trainorders. He is in fact a California-based travel agent (as is Mundo) who has direct access to Arrow. I've communicated with him, too via e-mail as well as with Wayne. Had you mentioned Gene's name when linking to Trainorders, my mini-soapbox would have been prevented. :rolleyes:

Still, the reason I get skeptical is because all too many times stories have been leaked by a source either inside or outside of Amtrak and before you know it, the idea has spread all over the internet through every rail-related forum. Hmm the Skyline Connection and the New England States come to mind, both trains that had schedules circulated over the internet but never started. The SC also was in the Amtrak printed timetables for a year, but it never ran.

It was, in fact, Gene Poon who purchased the very first (and very last) ticket for sleeper travel on the eastbound New England States, for which he obviously got a refund or credit because the train was stillborn.

Remember, the absolute best sources are press releases from either Amtrak itself, or rail advocacy organizations.
 
Hmm the Skyline Connection and the New England States come to mind, both trains that had schedules circulated over the internet but never started.
The Skyline Connestion was shown in the 2001 Travel Planner and Timetable (Winter and/or Spring). There was an article and timetable for the New England States (one heck of a stupid name considering it was only traveling through one New England state, Massachusetts) in one of my 2001 issues of Railpace magazine. Still, I completely agree that there is quite a bit of railroad gosip that leeks into the many railroad discussion groups on the internet. :)
 
Well while Amtrak can still change it's mind at the last minute, all the changes above have moved even further away from being a rumor and into the reality column.

This week's NARP Hotline is also confirming the above changes. You can view the newsletter by clicking here. The story is about halfway down the page.

Additionally NARP is reporting that both the Capital and the Lake Shore Limited will see schedule changes. Westbound departures will be later and eastbound departures will be earlier.
 
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