Miami Intermodal Center (f/k/a Miami Central Station)

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John Bobinyec

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I believe the final decision regarding the length of Amtrak trains was that if the Amtrak train blocked NW 25th Street, traffic would be directed around the blocked crossing to use the NW 31st Street crossing. That crossing is less than 1/2 mile away.
I think they will need to add some platform infrastructure on the north side of the grade crossing if they really expect trains to stick out there. I don;t think FRA will look kindly to using the gravel as the general platform for cars that hang out there.
They could do the NJ Transit trick and, if needed, have passengers in the last car or two walk forward to exit. Since MIA is the end of the line, it's not like the cars are full coming in or heading out.
Don't think that'll work for someone using a walker or who is unsteady on their feet. In such a situation, the train would end up making two stops.

jb
 
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jis

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I believe the final decision regarding the length of Amtrak trains was that if the Amtrak train blocked NW 25th Street, traffic would be directed around the blocked crossing to use the NW 31st Street crossing. That crossing is less than 1/2 mile away.
I think they will need to add some platform infrastructure on the north side of the grade crossing if they really expect trains to stick out there. I don;t think FRA will look kindly to using the gravel as the general platform for cars that hang out there.
They could do the NJ Transit trick and, if needed, have passengers in the last car or two walk forward to exit. Since MIA is the end of the line, it's not like the cars are full coming in or heading out.
Don't think that'll work for someone using a walker or who is unsteady on their feet. In such a situation, the train would end up making two stops.

jb
Are you proposing that the front of the train would proceed to crash through the bumper block to bring the rear cars to align with the platform? :blink:
 

VentureForth

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No doubt the new station is a fantastic improvement over the current one in terms of location, connections, rental cars, etc. Unfortunately, it will probably increase the operating loses for the Star and Meteor. Ridership will certainly go up some, but the trains will have to deadhead to/from Hialeah with the OBS and T&E crews, meaning an earlier on-duty time and later off-duty time for everyone involved. Depending on a variety of factors, they may even need an additional yard crew to handle the extra moves.

I believe the final decision regarding the length of Amtrak trains was that if the Amtrak train blocked NW 25th Street, traffic would be directed around the blocked crossing to use the NW 31st Street crossing. That crossing is less than 1/2 mile away.
I've been down there myself and was surprised at the amount of traffic on NW 25th St. That said, I don't see businesses being cut-off if the crossing is blocked. Traffic can go south about four blocks to NW 21st St or north to River Dr. The crossing will only be blocked for trains longer than 10 cars and two engines, which is about 990 feet. Right now, the Meteor is running with 11 cars for the summer and will do so during the Thanksgiving and Christmas peaks. The Star, well... it just keeps getting shorter. So you are looking at a 20 - 30 minute closure twice a day. The morning closure will be pretty predictable. The afternoon closure will have a bit more variability. :D

If they decide to split the trains at JAX with the west coast sections going on to Tampa, would the east coast sections be short enough to be regularly accommodated at Miami?
I am quite certain that they will not decide to split trains to send one section to terminate in Tampa. The days of terminating an LD train in Tampa are well behind us, and is unlikely to come back unless Florida decides to fund such, which is unlikely. OTOH, splitting trains in JAX for sending a section down the FEC is within the realm of possibilities, and such second section would most likely terminate in the AAF Miami Central and not MIC at Miami Airport. Of course how they get the consist from Miami Central to Hialeah will still remain a bit of an issue, but not entirely insurmountable one, since Tri-Rail is supposed to be building the necessary link for its trains to reach Miami Central from the Tr-Rail corridor.
There is a connection track (Mission Spur) just north of West Palm Beach that connects the SFRTA and FEC. On the FEC side, the track only connects southbound. The plan for bringing trains down the FEC called for adding a north connection, crossing the trains over and down via the existing stations, terminating at the same Miami station. It would not fly to have two Amtrak stations a couple blocks apart in every city from West Palm to Miami. There was some work going on recently at the Mission Spur. They've removed the north leg of the wye on the SFRTA side. Don't know if that was done in conjunction with some road work in the area or a project on the spur itself.
I've been saying that Tri Rail doesn't need stops just a couple blocks apart in every city froM WPB to Miami, but NO! Must have Tri Rail on the FEC. Don't know what that gains Tri Rail.
 

John Bobinyec

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I believe the final decision regarding the length of Amtrak trains was that if the Amtrak train blocked NW 25th Street, traffic would be directed around the blocked crossing to use the NW 31st Street crossing. That crossing is less than 1/2 mile away.
I think they will need to add some platform infrastructure on the north side of the grade crossing if they really expect trains to stick out there. I don;t think FRA will look kindly to using the gravel as the general platform for cars that hang out there.
They could do the NJ Transit trick and, if needed, have passengers in the last car or two walk forward to exit. Since MIA is the end of the line, it's not like the cars are full coming in or heading out.
Don't think that'll work for someone using a walker or who is unsteady on their feet. In such a situation, the train would end up making two stops.

jb
Are you proposing that the front of the train would proceed to crash through the bumper block to bring the rear cars to align with the platform? :blink:
No. Sorry. Didn't realize there was no head room at all.

jb
 

west point

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Have thought of the wye as well.

1. it would seem doable with not too much curvature

2. Backing or forward onto the wye tail requires going west that will require blocking LaJune road and the airport exit off the east west expressway . They are blocked now by the occasional CSX local train to proceeds on the tail to the Homestead branch and interconnection with the FEC yard.. A wye east not possible.

3. Going under the tracks at 25th would require digging at least 12 feet under the Miami river water table. There is also a salt water intrusion prevention dam just west of the Tri Rail tracks. This is one of many dams around the everglades that raises river about 3 - 4 feet to protect the everglades water level Those tracks cross the river over a bascule draw very infrequently raised.
 
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jis

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There is a connection track (Mission Spur) just north of West Palm Beach that connects the SFRTA and FEC. On the FEC side, the track only connects southbound. The plan for bringing trains down the FEC called for adding a north connection, crossing the trains over and down via the existing stations, terminating at the same Miami station. It would not fly to have two Amtrak stations a couple blocks apart in every city from West Palm to Miami. There was some work going on recently at the Mission Spur. They've removed the north leg of the wye on the SFRTA side. Don't know if that was done in conjunction with some road work in the area or a project on the spur itself.
You're correct. That is what will happen. Amtrak will continue to use the MIC Airport Station.

AAF would not have the capacity to actually handle an LD train in their station anyway.

Have thought of the wye as well.

1. it would seem doable with not too much curvature

2. Backing or forward onto the wye tail requires going west that will require blocking LaJune road and the airport exit off the east west expressway . They are blocked now by the occasional CSX local train to proceeds on the tail to the Homestead branch and interconnection with the FEC yard.. A wye east not possible.

3. Going under the tracks at 25th would require digging at least 12 feet under the Miami river water table. There is also a salt water intrusion prevention dam just west of the Tri Rail tracks. This is one of many dams around the everglades that raises river about 3 - 4 feet to protect the everglades water level Those tracks cross the river over a bascule draw very infrequently raised.
Yeah I pretty much figured that going under was a no go, and of course completely missed the fact that the Metro is actually elevated there, so going over is a no go too. What a mess!
 
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niemi24s

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I figured the water table would be the main problem. Somebody once told me there no such thing as a house in FL with a basement - but that's probably an exaggeration.
 
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jis

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Specially in Miami the water table is now slowly trending to become above ground level :)
 

Bob Dylan

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What about around Orlando and Central Florida where you Jersey ex-pats and Penny hang your hats?

Has all the Growth and MickeyWorld and Sea World used up all the water or is it swampy like it used to be?

I remember when Cypress Gardens and Alligator Shows were the HOT Tickets in Florida!! LOL
 
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xyzzy

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Yeah, in the days of "old Florida" before Mickey there wasn't much in the vicinity of Orlando except swamp and farms. I'm still amazed that Disney was able to buy all that land without any leak until the last minute, just before the final deal closed. One of the great stories in business development.
 

jis

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Central Florida is at a somewhat higher altitude in a Florida manner of speaking :) compared to Miami. Just look at the USGS flood maps to see what I mean. Actually the area between the St. johns basin and Indian River is not really all that swampy. It is relatively higher hammocks area.

Orlando is a very different type of area geologically speaking than most of coastal Brevard.
 
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west point

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As far as basements in south Florida only if your home is already on stilts or on a built up ground.
 

cirdan

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AAF would not have the capacity to actually handle an LD train in their station anyway.
Isn't the present state of wisdom that there will be two tracks for TriRail and two for AAF, leaving a fifth track "spare".
I'm not suggesting Amtrak use this but maybe FEC were thinking the occasional charter or something like that?
 

VentureForth

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Yeah, in the days of "old Florida" before Mickey there wasn't much in the vicinity of Orlando except swamp and farms. I'm still amazed that Disney was able to buy all that land without any leak until the last minute, just before the final deal closed. One of the great stories in business development.
For what it's worth, if you've ever heard about the tunnels at Walt Disney World, the fact of the matter is that the Magic Kingdom was built UP from ground level for the very reason of a shallow water table. The tunnels were built on ground level, and was backfilled with dirt excavated from what is now the Seven Seas Lagoon which lies between the park and the parking lot.
 

jis

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AAF would not have the capacity to actually handle an LD train in their station anyway.
Isn't the present state of wisdom that there will be two tracks for TriRail and two for AAF, leaving a fifth track "spare".
I'm not suggesting Amtrak use this but maybe FEC were thinking the occasional charter or something like that?
I don't know what the state of wisdom is, but AAF has stated in a presentation that currently they are installing 3 platform tracks for their own use, and making provision for two additional platform tracks which will be put in when Tri-Rail comes around to do so. There is absolutely no mention of Amtrak and AmtrakKL is absolutely right in his/her contention that Amtrak would be unable to justify the expense of operating at two sets of stations south of WPB. Amtrak will use MIC Airport Station irrespective of which route it takes from JAX to WPB. They just might happen to operate 4 trains a day out of there instead of two.
 

cirdan

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Yeah, in the days of "old Florida" before Mickey there wasn't much in the vicinity of Orlando except swamp and farms. I'm still amazed that Disney was able to buy all that land without any leak until the last minute, just before the final deal closed. One of the great stories in business development.
For what it's worth, if you've ever heard about the tunnels at Walt Disney World, the fact of the matter is that the Magic Kingdom was built UP from ground level for the very reason of a shallow water table. The tunnels were built on ground level, and was backfilled with dirt excavated from what is now the Seven Seas Lagoon which lies between the park and the parking lot.
I've heard something similar about Universal Studios, only that there they didn't even even fill it up with soil but everything is on pillars with the spaec underneath used for service pipes, cables etc. I guess this makes it easier to fix stuff or make changes than if it were all buried.
 

west point

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This poster agrees that Amtrak would want to join the TriRail tracks just north of West Palm Beach. The connecting track is interesting. Although have not seen it in years it must be excepted track with a 10 MPH speed board. At that time al rail and ties would have to be replaced.. Most grade crossing have no automatic gate protection. The line runs by a cemetery that contains the remains of many persons that perished in the hurricane that destroyed the Key West FEC route.
 
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chrsjrcj

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Fwiw, I was at the Miami Airport station today and noticed construction work on a new road for the bypass. The grade crossing had already been installed. I don't think it's unrealistic for Amtrak to move in before the end of the year.
 

AmtrakLKL

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Fwiw, I was at the Miami Airport station today and noticed construction work on a new road for the bypass. The grade crossing had already been installed. I don't think it's unrealistic for Amtrak to move in before the end of the year.
There are other factor$ beyond the road crossing holding Amtrak up at this point...
 

jis

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Fwiw, I was at the Miami Airport station today and noticed construction work on a new road for the bypass. The grade crossing had already been installed. I don't think it's unrealistic for Amtrak to move in before the end of the year.
There are other factor$ beyond the road crossing holding Amtrak up at this point...
I had a conversation with a gentleman in the know in Jacksonville at the end of the Gulf test special, and he re-iterated that it will be a long time before Amtrak moves to MIC. There is a lot that needs to change before that will happen, not just the bypass road.
 

jis

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Nothing beyond what I have posted from me. My lips are sealed. :(
 

M&O

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I think one leg of the wye has been removed (not to say it could not be reinstalled - may be a Metrorail pier in the old alignment). More cost for Amtrak but movement back and forth to Hialeah facility for service will probably resemble the old Seaboard days to the 7th Avenue station: a switch engine to haul it back and forth (too many crossings (8) and too far (4 miles) for a shove move?) (The Star does shove move in Tampa twice a day of over 2 miles and more than a dozen two-lane, gated street crossings - conductor stands in vestibule of last car (Star always backs in) with his radio in hand)
 

neroden

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I had a conversation with a gentleman in the know in Jacksonville at the end of the Gulf test special, and he re-iterated that it will be a long time before Amtrak moves to MIC. There is a lot that needs to change before that will happen, not just the bypass road.
Someone needs their head pulled out of their ass, I assume?
Because there should be precisely zero technical obstacles to moving Amtrak into the platforms shared with Tri-Rail. (If it's an Amtrak-only platform... they need to raise it for ADA reasons, but they can probably get a temporary waiver because the current Miami Amtrak station isn't compliant either.)

If there are any further obstacles, they must be obstacles in the form of obstructionist people who need to lose their jobs.
 
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jis

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Suffice it to say that throwing a hissy fit here is unlikely to make any difference to the net outcome on this ;)
 
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