Midwest Venture introduction

[AmtrakBlue]

Found it; Picture was taken by Brian Yueue on the Amtrak Modelers Facebook Group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AmtrakModelers/permalink/2824490264351175/

Looking at it, Crowbar_k is correct (I had forgotten) it's 2-2 Coach seating, then 2-1 Biz, the seats still look identical, just a bit wider. I'm also surprised that there isn't a divider between coach & biz.

View attachment 31987

I see only 2x1 seating. At some point (middle of car?) the single seats switch sides.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Venture business-class cars debut in Midwest: Trip report - Trains

First of two parts CHICAGO — After being delayed for several years by production setbacks and acceptance issues, the first of 17 state-owned Siemens Venture business-class cars are now hosting passengers on Midwest Amtrak routes. They are not being advertised, however, and you only need a...

www.trains.com

 

[jis]

According to the article it has 12 rows of BC including the row with the wheelchair tie down space, and four rows of Coach seating. An odd arrangement if you ask me.

 

[Septa9739]

The way I chose to interpret the article, it’s not that it’s ticketed coach seating, but rather that to get four seats around the tables, the seats needed to be coach sized. I agree that’s a bit strange, but I can see why that would be done. It certainly is less weird than having four random rows of coach in the business car.

 

[jis]

The way I chose to interpret the article, it’s not that it’s ticketed coach seating, but rather that to get four seats around the tables, the seats needed to be coach sized. I agree that’s a bit strange, but I can see why that would be done. It certainly is less weird than having four random rows of coach in the business car.

I see your point. It also says that they are at the bulkheads.

 

[mfastx]

I also found this. If anyone was wondering what a Siemens only train looks like, here is the answer.

Mmmm matching/uniform consists get me excited...

 

[Crowbar_k]

Mmmm matching/uniform consists get me excited...

They remind me of the Intercity 125 trainsets. In the same way that they are individual locomotives and passenger cars coupled together, but they are designed to go together and you can't imagine them coupled to anything else.

 

[Crowbar_k]

Wait. So, according to the article, all of the business class cars are going to be permanently coupled to the cafe cars. It's a configuration that make more sense that what was initially reported: business class class cars being coupled to coach, and cafe being connected to another coach. That way, business class passengers don't have to walk through multiple cars to get to the cafe. But they raises the question: why aren't the cafe cars equipped with permanent couples on both sides, given that there will always be both a coach and business class car coupled to it?

 

[rickycourtney]

Strange that there’s no divider/bulkhead/wall between coach and business.

 

[Septa9739]

Taking another look, jis is totally correct. That setup is very strange.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Didn’t it say the table seats were coach width. That doesn’t mean they’ll be available to non-BC pax. Currently, per the article, they’re not selling BC tickets anyway.

 

[jis]

Wait. So, according to the article, all of the business class cars are going to be permanently coupled to the cafe cars. It's a configuration that make more sense that what was initially reported: business class class cars being coupled to coach, and cafe being connected to another coach. That way, business class passengers don't have to walk through multiple cars to get to the cafe. But they raises the question: why aren't the cafe cars equipped with permanent couples on both sides, given that there will always be both a coach and business class car coupled to it?

Unless something has changed recently, as originally ordered BC was paired with a Coach, and Cafe was paired with a Coach. This is at odds with what the article says, though it is not clear what the claim in the article is based on. Trains does from time to time just invent stuff on their own too. Then again plans may have changed.

According to the original plan as ordered the Midwest trains were supposed to be configured as:

Charger (H) Coach (H) Coach (P) Cafe (H) Coach (P) BC

where (H) is AAR type H tightlock coupler and (P) is semi-permanent drawbar.

This provides the possibility of adding double (H) ended Coach between the Charger and the first Coach or between the Cafe and the Coach behind it.

This makes the consist layout similar to those on the NEC with the Cafe in the middle of the train and the BC at one end. The intention was for the Coach paired with the BC to be the Quite Car.

Of course, there is nothing permanent about any such plans and they may have changed since then, the whole IDOT thing being such a chaos anyway.

 

[Kramerica]

To answer the question about what type of cars the BC car is semi-permanently coupled to, there was this update to the article:

"— Updated at 3:20 p.m. CDT to clarify that business cars will be semi-permanently coupled to coaches, not just cafes."

 

[wwchi]

The article about these leaves me underwhelmed sadly. Glad I'm not a regular rider anymore but still do occasionally take the Wolverine/Blue Water/Pere Marquette between MI and Chicago.

 

[jis]

More Midwest Venture cars enter service; California still waits - Trains

Second of two parts CHICAGO — The introduction of Venture business/coach cars on some state-supported Amtrak routes in the Midwest reflects an increase in availability of the Siemens-built equipment, delayed by a variety of production and acceptance issues. Meanwhile, there is still no firm date...

www.trains.com

One interesting difference in the way in which cars are being accepted, between Brightline and Amtrak Midwest is that Brightline accepted entire train consist as a package, not one car at a time, whereas Midwest and even California seem to be doing it a car at a time. VIA appears to also have taken an entire train consist at a time approach.

 

[TRA_Thom]

Traveling on the Wolverine 352 in coach today, but they let coach passengers sit in one of the two business class cars. The business class seat is a little stiff compared to older cars, but the leg room and sheer width are amazing. And each seat comes with 2 traditional power outlets and 2 USBs (so 8 plug in points in a row of 2).
My video will be released on my YouTube channel on Saturday, May 6. If people like I can share the link.

 

[IAlam]

Traveling on the Wolverine 352 in coach today, but they let coach passengers sit in one of the two business class cars. The business class seat is a little stiff compared to older cars, but the leg room and sheer width are amazing. And each seat comes with 2 traditional power outlets and 2 USBs (so 8 plug in points in a row of 2).

So along with the Illinois Zepher, the Wolverine got business-class cars too now? Are there any other trains known to have it?

 

[Crowbar_k]

Anyone have any videos or pictures of the interior??

 

[moselman66]

Anybody know if somthing is sidelining Venture cars in the Midwest? Not only are they missing from the Hiawatha where they had been introcuded, but the it appears back to three lousy coaches (all Horizon) on both train sets. There was more capacity in both sets prior to Siemens cars being swapped in several weeks back. Those Horizon and Amfleet cars have not been restored and with only three coaches peak trains are selling out day after day. Those recent (former) Hiawatha swapped out might be subbing for Ventures elsewhere if something is up.

Might be something else going on, of course, but my first through is (unfortunately) the Ventures. Hopefully not, but whatever is killing Hiawatha capacity will hopefully be remedied soon.

 

[Trogdor]

Anybody know if somthing is sidelining Venture cars in the Midwest? Not only are they missing from the Hiawatha where they had been introcuded, but the it appears back to three lousy coaches (all Horizon) on both train sets. There was more capacity in both sets prior to Siemens cars being swapped in several weeks back. Those Horizon and Amfleet cars have not been restored and with only three coaches peak trains are selling out day after day. Those recent (former) Hiawatha swapped out might be subbing for Ventures elsewhere if something is up.

Might be something else going on, of course, but my first through is (unfortunately) the Ventures. Hopefully not, but whatever is killing Hiawatha capacity will hopefully be remedied soon.

The two issues are somewhat, but not directly related.

Overall, Amtrak still has a shortage of serviceable cars, which has led to the pathetic consists that are smaller than they were 15-20 years ago, and the sellout conditions.

As to the Venture cars specifically, my understanding is that the state of Illinois complained that the Hiawatha was being equipped with new cars before the other IL-supported trains were fully equipped. Keep in mind that because Wisconsin originally ordered Talgos, they weren’t part of the original Midwest consortium order. It was only long after that Wisconsin joined in, so the cars that Wisconsin paid for aren’t technically built/delivered yet. So if Illinois is paying for the cars, they want them on Illinois trains first (I think Michigan was part of the original order, so their trains are okay).

 

[GDRRiley]

More Midwest Venture cars enter service; California still waits - Trains

Second of two parts CHICAGO — The introduction of Venture business/coach cars on some state-supported Amtrak routes in the Midwest reflects an increase in availability of the Siemens-built equipment, delayed by a variety of production and acceptance issues. Meanwhile, there is still no firm date...

www.trains.com

One interesting difference in the way in which cars are being accepted, between Brightline and Amtrak Midwest is that Brightline accepted entire train consist as a package, not one car at a time, whereas Midwest and even California seem to be doing it a car at a time. VIA appears to also have taken an entire train consist at a time approach.

California is nearly a whole train at a time 6/7 coaches normally, we've just been waiting on cab cars so they may start service with top and tail locos and or cabbages

 

[John from RI]

You do realize that if someone got sick from drinking the water, Amtrak, Siemens, California, Illinois and some bystanders would be sued for all the money in the world. You can't deliberatly expose people to dangers that you know about.

You can't deliberatly expose people to dangers that you know about.
You sure got that right, Mike.

I don't like these new cars being dragged out for such a long time. But safety is safety. Lead in drinking water is not safe.

 

[moselman66]

The two issues are somewhat, but not directly related.

Overall, Amtrak still has a shortage of serviceable cars, which has led to the pathetic consists that are smaller than they were 15-20 years ago, and the sellout conditions.

As to the Venture cars specifically, my understanding is that the state of Illinois complained that the Hiawatha was being equipped with new cars before the other IL-supported trains were fully equipped. Keep in mind that because Wisconsin originally ordered Talgos, they weren’t part of the original Midwest consortium order. It was only long after that Wisconsin joined in, so the cars that Wisconsin paid for aren’t technically built/delivered yet. So if Illinois is paying for the cars, they want them on Illinois trains first (I think Michigan was part of the original order, so their trains are okay).

Thanks for the information! What's maddening is what happened to the Horizon and Amfleet cars which had been part of the consits until a only a handful of weeks ago. I suppose it's possibe they were spoken for (to be used elsewhere or scheduled for servicing, etc.) as soon as the Ventures could free them up from the Hiawatha. I get the idea that IL and MI want them first, but it's like there was a net loss of coach capacity out of Chicago in spite of new cars being added to the fleet.

 

[Trogdor]

Thanks for the information! What's maddening is what happened to the Horizon and Amfleet cars which had been part of the consits until a only a handful of weeks ago. I suppose it's possibe they were spoken for (to be used elsewhere or scheduled for servicing, etc.) as soon as the Ventures could free them up from the Hiawatha. I get the idea that IL and MI want them first, but it's like there was a net loss of coach capacity out of Chicago in spite of new cars being added to the fleet.

Yeah, I’m not fully sure what happened to all the equipment. A few trainsets went west to cover the Talgo retirement, but I don’t know how many cars total that is. I know a few Horizon cars were also retired (saw pictures of them with some other reporting marks). Then there’s probably the overall reduction in availability from when Amtrak parked a bunch of the fleet and laid off mechanical staff at the start of COVID, which they still haven’t recovered from.

But given that they do have a number of Siemens cars in service now, it’s hard to say why they’re still struggling so much with equipment availability. I don’t know enough about the current fleet availability to trace what is happening, but the issue of the Venture cars on the Hiawatha was relayed to me from someone on the inside.

 

[Eric S]

A week or two ago on Twitter, someone stated they had recently emailed WisDOT asking about Hiawatha equipment and plans. Evidently WisDOT stated that Ventures were only on the Hiawatha temporarily and that it would be a year or two until they are permanently re-equipped with Ventures. As for the number of Amfleets or Horizons, WisDOT stated that it should be back to 4 cars per trainset soon but that after that it depended on overall Amtrak equipment availability.

Going back to Ventures, my understanding is that the multi-state (IL/MI/MO) portion of the order covered one Hiawatha trainset and the later Wisconsin add-on covers the second trainset, with the WI portion also including cab cars for both trainsets (plus a third as a spare). It would not surprise me if that means that the Hiawatha is essentially last in line for Venture deployment.