New Amfleet I replacement Siemens Inter City Trainsets (ICT)

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joelkfla

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Found this on pp. 125-126 of Amtrak's FY 2022-2027 Five Year Plans:

Twenty-six (26) catenary-diesel dual-power trainsets,​
consisting of an ALC-42E locomotive and six passenger​
cars, for use on the Downeaster, Vermonter, Pennsylvanian,​
Palmetto, Carolinian and Keystone Service. The passenger car​
closest to the locomotive will be an Auxiliary Power Vehicle​
(APV) containing a pantograph, transformer cabinet and​
supplemental powered truck for use in electrified territory;​
power drawn from the APV will also be fed to the traction​
motors in the locomotive to ensure sufficient acceleration​
when operating on the Northeast Corridor (NEC).​
Fifteen (15) battery-diesel hybrid trainsets with a short​
term option to acquire two more), consisting of an ALC-42E​
locomotive and six passenger cars, for use on the Empire Service,​
Ethan Allen Express, Adirondack, and Maple Leaf. The passenger​
car closest to the locomotive will contain a battery which will​
supply electricity to the locomotive for power when operating​
around New York Penn Station, eliminating the need for third rail​
propulsion.​

"The passenger car closest to the locomotive will contain a battery" seems to imply that the battery will be in a car that also carries passengers. And there is no mention of a "supplemental powered truck" in the battery-diesel description. Seems to me that acceleration just pulling into and out of NYP would not be of enough concern to justify the cost of the additional powered truck.
 

jis

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"The passenger car closest to the locomotive will contain a battery" seems to imply that the battery will be in a car that also carries passengers. And there is no mention of a "supplemental powered truck" in the battery-diesel description. Seems to me that acceleration just pulling into and out of NYP would not be of enough concern to justify the cost of the additional powered truck.
What proportion of the car will be occupied by batteries is also a piece of detail that possibly does not belong in such a high level description, and hence is not mentioned.
 

rickycourtney

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My curiosity is if these batteries will simply be used to push/pull the trainset into NYP, or if they will enable a “hybrid” operation (think like a Prius) and also improve fuel economy.
 

jis

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My curiosity is if these batteries will simply be used to push/pull the trainset into NYP, or if they will enable a “hybrid” operation (think like a Prius) and also improve fuel economy.
The Prius Prime plugin (I own one) notionally uses two separate batteries, one for the hybrid operation and the other for the plugin operation. This is to make sure that hybrid operation does not drain the traction battery. Afterall you would not want to discover that you had no charge left when you needed it in the tunnel because hybrid operation drained everything. I wonder if that complexity is part of the battery-diesel plan.
 

Mailliw

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It occurs to me that assuming Amtrak goes with fixed bidirectional seating as expected, but doesn't expand seat selection to Economy then Business Class could suddenly become alot more popular on the NER. Given that 2:1 BC cars will have a lower passenger capacity maybe it would behoove Amtrak to have a 2nd BC car in NER consists? Or just designate one economy coaches as "Premium Economy" with seat selection?
 

NES28

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I really hope that Amtrak moves toward universal advanced seat selection on reserved trains, as is pretty much consistently true on European trains. The business of making passengers at originating stations stand in line for extended periods to protect their chance of getting a decent seat, reminds of travel in third world countries or the old system on Southwest Airlines.
 
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I really hope that Amtrak moves toward universal advanced seat selection on reserved trains, as is pretty much consistently true on European trains. The business of making passengers at originating stations stand in line for extended periods to protect their chance of getting a decent seat, reminds of travel in third world countries or the old system on Southwest Airlines.
I second this. I recently reserved a trip on Irish Rail and seat selection online is just like on an airline with a pictorial diagram of the seats available.
In the US the hard part would be actually enforcing it given that we have had open seating for so long. On IE they have actual displays at the seat showing that it is reserved. I guess it is probably too late to add something like this to the Siemens coaches.
 

NES28

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This is true in Germany. Perhaps other countries, as well. Press releases have said that the design of the 83 Siemens trains is set to be done in 2023.
 

Willbridge

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This is true in Germany. Perhaps other countries, as well. Press releases have said that the design of the 83 Siemens trains is set to be done in 2023.
There still are a few problems. A German lady was sitting in the seat that showed as mine (unless she was also going to obscure Augustfehn). When she realized that I was an Auslander she hunkered down. I just waited for the conductor and he moved her to the car she belonged in. Right seat number -- wrong car number.
 

jis

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MODERATOR'S NOTES: A large number of posts regarding introduction of Venture Cars in the Midwest have been moved to a p[re-existing thread on that subject. Please post Midwest Venture related posts to the following thread:


And leave this thread for discussing NEC ICTs.

AND BTW, while we are at it, let us also be done with seat reservations and get back to discussing equipment.

Thank you for your understanding, cooperation and participation.
 
Last edited:

Mailliw

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Are the ICT revenue cars going to be 2 doors or 4 doors? If they'll be 2 doors could a 2nd, non-accessible, toilet be placed at the door less end?
 

jis

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Are the ICT revenue cars going to be 2 doors or 4 doors? If they'll be 2 doors could a 2nd, non-accessible, toilet be placed at the door less end?
This has been discussed before. The vestibule area is outside the protective cage area (required to meet the Tier III structural requirements) irrespective of whether there is a door or not. So they will probably not place anything there that could require a passenger to spend somewhat extended time there.

I would be very surprised too if the ICT cars are two door ones. I suspect they will be like the Brightline cars, except with traps.
 
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