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New Amtrak Moynihan train hall at NYP

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joelkfla

Lead Service Attendant
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Oct 16, 2018
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I don't care how many signs...(counted about a dozen from the photos?'), shouting it as "Moynihan Train Hall" are there....I will still refer to the whole complex as Penn Station....:)
In the photo I posted above:
2 banners above each entrance; 1 reads "MOYNIHAN TRAIN HALL", other reads "PENNSYLVANIA STATION".

I think Moynihan Train Hall really refers to the large open space, such as is called the Grand Hall in some classic stations.
 

jiml

Conductor
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Feb 27, 2019
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Somewhere in Southern Ontario
Will the Empire Service trains be served from MTH? Which tracks in the station can they access?

Jb
I think I see where you're headed. With the Empire Connection only accessible from Tracks 1-7, shared with NJ Transit, will you still wind up in the older part of the station? The answer is about 4 minutes into this video:

 
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adamj023

Service Attendant
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Apr 1, 2015
Messages
143
Amtrak uses tracks 5 to 16, so you need to use the west end concourse for track 5 to 6. Not sure if 7 and/or 8 have elevators in the train hall. Amtrak does not use tracks 1 to 4 which are used only by NJ Transit.
 

Shawn Ryu

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Amtrak uses tracks 5 to 16, so you need to use the west end concourse for track 5 to 6. Not sure if 7 and/or 8 have elevators in the train hall. Amtrak does not use tracks 1 to 4 which are used only by NJ Transit.
I presume if you are NJ Transit passenger and stil wanted to use it, you can access those tracks from here.
 

zephyr17

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Washington State
I don't care how many signs...(counted about a dozen from the photos?'), shouting it as "Moynihan Train Hall" are there....I will still refer to the whole complex as Penn Station....:)
I think that is what the whole complex officially is. Amtrak itself calls "Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station". So you are absolutely accurate.
 

railiner

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Palm Beach County
I think that is what the whole complex officially is. Amtrak itself calls "Moynihan Train Hall at Penn Station". So you are absolutely accurate.
At one time, partisans were pushing to rename the entire complex for the Senator, but met too much resistance. However, they sure do try to make sure that everyone is aware of what the new hall is called...
 

cocojacoby

Lead Service Attendant
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May 13, 2014
Messages
401
Pre COVID, we traveled the Silvers at least twice yearly. We’re snowbirds in reverse. Fl is our home.
I am understanding that the Silvers will be leaving from the new station. But where do we enter? 8th Ave or 9th Ave.? Or both? Not those huge stairs, I hope.
Just think you will be traveling in a brand new sleeper, eating in a brand new diner (lounge?) and leaving from a brand new Penn Station. Kind of incredible when you think about it.
 

me_little_me

Conductor
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Jul 16, 2010
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Just think you will be traveling in a brand new sleeper, eating in a brand new diner (lounge?) and leaving from a brand new Penn Station. Kind of incredible when you think about it.
Well, at least two out of three. Since flex meals may not be considered "eating". I'd rather use the old station and old cars and have tho old, much nicer meals (but would far prefer the new cars and station along with those old meals). There is no reason to have the kind of "food" Amtrak is shoving at its patrons.
 

AFS1970

Train Attendant
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Jan 3, 2016
Messages
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Sometimes renaming sticks, other times it doesn't. My local train station is technically the Mckinney Transportation Center, but nobody calls it that. Amtrak and Metro North both just call it Stamford. There is one big sign and one small sign with the name on it. Part of this is politics, the station was built with state grants by the city. Everyone said it wouldn't break even for 10 years. The city was supposed to manage it and take all revenue until that happened. Well it broke even in 2 years and the state took it over. The name was given to it by the city just before the takeover. The Senator it was named after had a fall from grace and most people, even in his own party, just want to forget him. So the name is there but no one uses it.
 

amtrakpass

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Jan 21, 2016
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I was able to stop by and check out the new train hall on Wednesday. I thought it looked very nice and feel like the large track number signs will help people unfamiliar with the station find their track easier than the old boarding area. One thing I missed is a large central solari or electronic equivalent departure board so you had to look at smaller ones around the walls. They were around but not as eye catching. The LIRR did have a relatively large board there on the side. I hope Amtrak puts a larger central one in the Hall at some point.
 

crescent-zephyr

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Oct 21, 2015
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I was able to stop by and check out the new train hall on Wednesday. I thought it looked very nice and feel like the large track number signs will help people unfamiliar with the station find their track easier than the old boarding area. One thing I missed is a large central solari or electronic equivalent departure board so you had to look at smaller ones around the walls. They were around but not as eye catching. The LIRR did have a relatively large board there on the side. I hope Amtrak puts a larger central one in the Hall at some point.
It’s amazing to me that Amtrak leaves solari boards up all the way until the 2000’s when they become cool again in that vintage retro way.... and then they take them down to put up computer screens that already look dated and from the 90’s windows days.

If you’ve ever been to a Starbucks roastery, they have solari boards that change to show which single origin coffees are currently brewing. It’s the cool and hip thing that the “millennials” want.... oh wait sorry, millennials want microwaved food according to Amtrak.
 

joelkfla

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
323
Location
12 miles from Walt Disney World
I was able to stop by and check out the new train hall on Wednesday. I thought it looked very nice and feel like the large track number signs will help people unfamiliar with the station find their track easier than the old boarding area. One thing I missed is a large central solari or electronic equivalent departure board so you had to look at smaller ones around the walls. They were around but not as eye catching. The LIRR did have a relatively large board there on the side. I hope Amtrak puts a larger central one in the Hall at some point.
If they wanted to, it would probably be relatively easy to put up a departures board on some of those giant screens that are currently displaying "scenic NY state" animations. Though I'm not convinced it's necessary.
 

amtrakpass

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Jan 21, 2016
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I like how Grand Central has the various lines next departures above where the ticket windows are or were anyway. To me the primary purpose is to make it super easy to find your track/train on short notice since they are usually going to be announced very close to departure at NYP. And the audio announcements echo a bit and are a little hard to understand as they would be in any large space. So a central board on one of those big screens now displaying advertising would be helpful in my opinion. If you are there way ahead of time or use the waiting area it is no big deal, just thinking of the usual last minute standing crowd as is usual for Amtrak in normal times in NY.
 

amtrakpass

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Jan 21, 2016
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Also there was one other question regarding the entrances. You don't need to go up the stairs. That is still the post office at present. There are entrances both to the right and left of the those stairs. For example at the corner of 33rd and 8th ave.
 

crescent-zephyr

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Also there was one other question regarding the entrances. You don't need to go up the stairs. That is still the post office at present. There are entrances both to the right and left of the those stairs. For example at the corner of 33rd and 8th ave.
I was wondering if the post office was still there! Good to know.
 

joelkfla

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Oct 16, 2018
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12 miles from Walt Disney World
Well I’m not sure any departure signs are ever necessary... but they are certainly convenient and help reduce confusion.
I was thinking that as long as there are departure boards at the entrances (which there are) and where people congregate (waiting room, lounge, dining hall), and by the ticket offices and info desks, there's not really a need for a central one in the Hall. I think people in the Hall will generally be transiting across it, not hanging out.

But given Amtrak's proclivity for assigning tracks at the last minute, maybe I'm wrong.
 

PVD

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The USPS retail operation is likely to remain for some time, the processing operations are long gone, which is why so much space was available to redevelop and repurpose.
 

Devil's Advocate

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But given Amtrak's proclivity for assigning tracks at the last minute, maybe I'm wrong.
Supposedly it's done because of time constraints and to keep people off the platforms but I honestly can't think of another major transport hub I've ever seen doing that.
 

daybeers

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Supposedly it's done because of time constraints and to keep people off the platforms but I honestly can't think of another major transport hub I've ever seen doing that.
I agree, but I also can't think of another major transport hub that has such narrow platforms as NYP. They have such low capacity that only one train at a time per platform can be either boarding or deboarding. Yes some of it is padding time, but the narrow platforms is most of the reason why Northeast Regionals have a 15 minute layover in NYP. I am interested in this plan to narrow the columns on the platforms:
There is an interesting plan to narrow the columns. Apparently the structural steel part of the support columns, which provides the actual support, is smaller than the concrete wrapping, so the plan is to remove most of the concrete wrapping on the columns.
 

crescent-zephyr

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Oct 21, 2015
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I agree, but I also can't think of another major transport hub that has such narrow platforms as NYP. They have such low capacity that only one train at a time per platform can be either boarding or deboarding. Yes some of it is padding time, but the narrow platforms is most of the reason why Northeast Regionals have a 15 minute layover in NYP. I am interested in this plan to narrow the columns on the platforms:
Imagine how much they could shorten the dwell time if they could have one platform for detraining passengers and the platform on the opposite side for boarding passengers.

Sure it would be expensive but so is constant tentsion and how much time does that actually save them?
 

John Santos

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Jun 24, 2018
Messages
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Imagine how much they could shorten the dwell time if they could have one platform for detraining passengers and the platform on the opposite side for boarding passengers.

Sure it would be expensive but so is constant tentsion and how much time does that actually save them?
You mean like the Park Street Under subway station in Boston? (There are two tracks and 3 platforms, the trains on both tracks are accessible from the center platform and the doors on both sides of every train open there.) With an added rule that the platform on the left (for example) or the odd-numbered platform is for boarding and the one on the right (or even numbered platform) is for exiting the train?

No one would ever be able to keep track of which is which for any given train, considering that some trains are moving East (towards Boston) and some are moving West (towards New Jersey) and sometimes an eastbound train has to use a track most commonly used by westbound trains and vice versa.

Of course this is just the minor problem. The huge problem is they would have to shut down and remove half of the tracks and install new platforms where those tracks are. They could get about a third of the lost capacity back by ripping out about half the remaining platforms and install new tracks where they are (reducing the total number of tracks by at least a third), or to keep the same number of tracks, widen the station and the tunnels under Manhattan by at least 50%. Greatly reducing capacity for decades during construction and hoping everything between 30th St and 34th St doesn't collapse into a giant pit while they're building it. They would have to move the pillars supporting millions of tons of skyscrapers that would block the new tracks. Got a couple of trillion bucks burning a hole in your pocket? It would be more useful to build a new 4-track tunnel under the Hudson and electrify every LD route in the country. Also buy enough equipment to run every LD train 3 times a day (every 8 hours), with hourly service on every corridor. Hey, we can all dream...
 

crescent-zephyr

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You mean like the Park Street Under subway station in Boston? (There are two tracks and 3 platforms, the trains on both tracks are accessible from the center platform and the doors on both sides of every train open there.) With an added rule that the platform on the left (for example) or the odd-numbered platform is for boarding and the one on the right (or even numbered platform) is for exiting the train?

No one would ever be able to keep track of which is which for any given train, considering that some trains are moving East (towards Boston) and some are moving West (towards New Jersey) and sometimes an eastbound train has to use a track most commonly used by westbound trains and vice versa.

Of course this is just the minor problem. The huge problem is they would have to shut down and remove half of the tracks and install new platforms where those tracks are. They could get about a third of the lost capacity back by ripping out about half the remaining platforms and install new tracks where they are (reducing the total number of tracks by at least a third), or to keep the same number of tracks, widen the station and the tunnels under Manhattan by at least 50%. Greatly reducing capacity for decades during construction and hoping everything between 30th St and 34th St doesn't collapse into a giant pit while they're building it. They would have to move the pillars supporting millions of tons of skyscrapers that would block the new tracks. Got a couple of trillion bucks burning a hole in your pocket? It would be more useful to build a new 4-track tunnel under the Hudson and electrify every LD route in the country. Also buy enough equipment to run every LD train 3 times a day (every 8 hours), with hourly service on every corridor. Hey, we can all dream...
Well nobody would have to keep track of it, the exiting passengers would exit from one side, and after they had exited the conductor would open the doors on the opposite side to allow the passengers already on the platform the chance to board.

It wasn’t an overly realistic suggestion... just a “yes and” blue sky idea.

Again.. how much time does constant tension catenary save? Everything costs money!
 
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