New Amtrak Proposed Routes Map has Dropped

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@Seaboard92 I hope you did notice that they carefully avoided almost everything that had anything to do with any LD service. So all of that jiggery pokery with the Star and Crescent is apparently out of scope of whatever Amtrak is trying to peddle in this random map at present.

Simple things like Denver - Pueblo for some reason does not extend to La Junta or Trinidad? Wut?

In short, it is not a connected service plan based on basic mathematical models of connected graphs. It is a collection of random one ended lines added to the current map in most cases.
 
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The latter depended on whether you bought your tickets from VIA or Amtrak. The Amtrak tickets were TWO-CHI, the VIA tickets were indeed broken at Sarnia.

My VIA CanRailPass back in Jan '83 just after the International was inaugurated got me to Sarnia then I had a separate ticket coupon between Sarnia and Port Huron .....then Port Huron to Chicago (and return).

2021-02-04_075549 - Copy - Copy.jpg
 
My VIA CanRailPass back in Jan '83 just after the International was inaugurated got me to Sarnia then I had a separate ticket coupon between Sarnia and Port Huron .....then Port Huron to Chicago (and return).

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Yes, that's what I was saying in case it wasn't clear. Amtrak ticketing in Toronto was supposedly handled by VIA and they not only hated doing it by hand but certainly worked off different rules. Even when hand-written it was worth driving to Buffalo or Niagara Falls to get an Amtrak agent to write an Amtrak ticket. Once Amtrak went to computer, VIA was still hand-writing and Amtrak would mail to Canada at no extra cost.
 
Yes, as a couple of folks have already mentioned, there's a lack of needed LD routes, and especially a lack of connectivity with existing route. As jls states,why not a connection somewhere between the Southwest Chief and the California Zephyr? It's bizarre that any Colorado Front Range service would not connect in some way with La Junta or Trinidad.

I was glad to see the idea of extending the Heartland Flyer north to Wichita and then to Newton to connect with the Southwest Chief.

And what about a Kansas City to Texas route that would also serve Tulsa, a metro area of nearly a million people?
 
Simple things like Denver - Pueblo for some reason does not extend to La Junta or Trinidad? Wut?

I've talked about this one with my partner and bit and the reason why Colorado is planning on only doing Fort Collins to Pueblo has to do with politics in Colorado. Colorado will likely have to create a special agency/district to get dedicated taxes to fund the line long term. Which means having geographical boundaries of the agency. And the best cynical guess is that an agency roughly between those two cities would pass a tax to fund a rail line. Any further north, south or west and the projected voter turnout out would look less favorable. The second reason is there is the Bustang routes that run along the Front Range and there have been plans to turn it into a rail corridor. When I looked at the schedule before COVID, Denver - Colorado Springs and Denver - Fort Collins had about 12 rounds trips daily on each line. This program has been successful enough that CDOT wants a train.
 
Because taking the train is better than flying for under 400 miles. You boomers need to understand that that long distance rail doesn't fit modern America's travel needs and that multiple regional routes would be a much better use of resources.

Spoiler alert: trains stop at lots of stations that aren't the endpoints. This is especially true for long distance trains. I've taken the Empire Builder far more than any other train, and I've taken it more between two intermediate stops than I have taken it between my home station and either endpoint. When it's on time, it works exceedingly well at letting me take a day trip to visit family a few stops down the line. There's plenty of other places where this works well, and lots of passengers take the train between two intermediate stops, essentially using it as overlapping corridor trains.

Breaking up the LD trains into multiple corridors simply makes it less useful for those taking it through multiple corridors. Reliability issues could be alleviated quite a bit by holding the host railroads to their obligation to treat Amtrak as highest priority to keep to their agreed-upon timetable. Add additional frequencies, and now it works better for more people.

(Also, another spoiler alert: I'm not a boomer. I'm one of those millenials that Amtrak is claiming to cater to. Trust me, we're fine with "long distance" trains - and if anything want more trains, of all distances.)
 
A lot of these routes don't really make sense on their list of "Improvements"

Charlotte-Asheville. The line from Salisbury to Asheville was recently downgraded to 25 mph by NS. So that's going to require improvement.

Raleigh (Wilson)-Wilmington a good 30 miles of track over swamp land were ripped out.
Those are NCDOT trains. The Asheville train was originally planned for 2005. The Wilmington train a few years later.
 
Philadelphia-Reading? This would make much more sense as SEPTA than anything else. In the 1980s I believe Septa went out to Reading and further out northwest as well. It just requires modifying the SEPTA Service territory which should be done anyway. Now I could see a New York-Harrisburg via Allentown, and Reading making sense.

The Reading Railroad ran the trains that ran Philadelphia -- Reading -- Pottsville. They also ran trains from Philadelphia to Bethlehem, Pa. When I rode them in the 1970s they were RDCs, and may have had SEPTA subsidy, but were branded as Reading. I read somewhere that SEPTA cancelled them after they finished the Center City commuter tunnel connecting Suburban Station and what is now Jefferson Station. With Reading Terminal abandoned, SEPTA felt that diesel power was not suitable for use in the tunnel, so they cancelled the former Reading diesel services. I guess they could have run them from 30th St., except they would need to find an interchange point to get the trains on to the Reading tracks without using the commuter tunnel. I'm not sure whether Dual mode locomotives or DEMUs were around in the 1980s, but I guess that would work, too.

Reading Blue Mountain & Northern (rbmnrr-passenger.com)

You can take excursions north of Reading on RDCs on the Reading, Blue Mountain & Northern. I'm not sure if the RDCs are all former Reading RDCs or collected from other railroads. That's an outing I'm interested in taking once I get comfortable about traveling again.
 
They might very well do so since eventually CAHSR and Brightline are planning for joint existence on the approach to LAX from Palmdale. We don't know for sure what will happen yet, but is quite possible that they would actually serve Union Station from what I have been hearing.

Unless of course we we are talking about Tampa Union Station. 🤷‍♂️
If Brightline's Tampa station ends up being a one-block walk from TUS, I would say they would be serving TUS.
 
Chicago to Orlando is approximately 36 hours by train. So one is looking at a schedule that is 2 nights and 1 day. This link for the Floridian had a 9 pm Chicago departure, mid-day Nashville departure and a 9 am Orlando arrival. Tampa was another 3+ hours and any connection to Miami would make the trip from Chicago to be close to 45+ hours.

http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/floridian.htm
This route used the former L&N route via Montgomery, AL and did not go through Atlanta. A routing to include Atlanta and a few other Georgia stops may take a little more time, but well worth the intermediate trios, especially if Savannah is included.

The attached link is for the Southern Railway's New Royal Palm which shows good connecting trains from Chicago and then to Tampa to illustrate what might be possible for a future Chicago to Florida train general running times that stopped in Atlanta.

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/newroyalpalm195103.html

The Attached Link s
 
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@Seaboard92 I hope you did notice that they carefully avoided almost everything that had anything to do with any LD service. So all of that jiggery pokery with the Star and Crescent is apparently out of scope of whatever Amtrak is trying to peddle in this random map at present.

Simple things like Denver - Pueblo for some reason does not extend to La Junta or Trinidad? Wut?

In short, it is not a connected service plan based on basic mathematical models of connected graphs. It is a collection of random one ended lines added to the current map in most cases.

Oh I agree it is really a haphazard map of things, most of which don't really make a whole lot of sense. Connectivity is something Ithink is important when planning a route network. Even on the Airline Empires simulation game connectivity means wonders for your bottom line. Connecting routes and connecting hubs is great but having spoke routes as well to bring additional traffic into the hubs is the way to go. It looks like whomever drew this map looked more at the Spirt Airlines model where it's more linear base than connected. I would continue to draw the lines in ways to make things more viable.

I've long thought the North South corridor from Detroit to New Orleans actually made a lot of sense. There are enough variations one can do on it to make it really interesting. When one looks at that line there are so many interesting branches and cities you could make a fairly comprehensive regional system. Going from North to South

Main Line
-Detroit
-Toledo
-Dayton
-Cincinnati
-Louisville
-Nashville
-Chattanooga
-Birmingham
-Montgomery
-Mobile
-New Orleans

Then factor in from Toledo you are getting interchange traffic if timed right east/west.

At Cincinnati and Dayton you have the 3 C Branch which is Cleveland, and Columbus into this system.

At Louisville you are adding a Chicago branch with Indianapolis in the middle.

At Nashville you could theoretically branch to Memphis.

At Chattanooga is when you really start getting to the fun part. You can do a branch that goes out to Atlanta and swings back into the main line at Montgomery.

The ultimate kicker in this is you don't really have to run on each branch that frequent to really have a good network. No one train has to use the entire network or hit all the cities but if they are on the main trunk line for a portion they are making the infrastructure worth building because the cost per train lowers.

I would have to sit with a timetable to really demonstrate what I'm trying to describe but the basic thing is to get every three hour service between intermediate points on the trunk line but the destinations and originations being different for each train.

It's really a unique run because of all the variants and options you can attach to it which you can't easily do elsewhere in the country. The closest I could think is doing something on the Silver Service which has Washington, Richmond, Raleigh, Columbia, Charleston, Savannah, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa. On that you can easily throw an Atlanta branch off from either Columbia or Raleigh to Jacksonville.
 
The Reading Railroad ran the trains that ran Philadelphia -- Reading -- Pottsville. They also ran trains from Philadelphia to Bethlehem, Pa. When I rode them in the 1970s they were RDCs, and may have had SEPTA subsidy, but were branded as Reading. I read somewhere that SEPTA cancelled them after they finished the Center City commuter tunnel connecting Suburban Station and what is now Jefferson Station. With Reading Terminal abandoned, SEPTA felt that diesel power was not suitable for use in the tunnel, so they cancelled the former Reading diesel services. I guess they could have run them from 30th St., except they would need to find an interchange point to get the trains on to the Reading tracks without using the commuter tunnel. I'm not sure whether Dual mode locomotives or DEMUs were around in the 1980s, but I guess that would work, too.

Reading Blue Mountain & Northern (rbmnrr-passenger.com)

You can take excursions north of Reading on RDCs on the Reading, Blue Mountain & Northern. I'm not sure if the RDCs are all former Reading RDCs or collected from other railroads. That's an outing I'm interested in taking once I get comfortable about traveling again.

You most definitely should do that. I did that back in 2019 and it was a blast. They were supposed to run their F Units from Reading to Scranton area in 2020 but that got indefinitely postponed.
 
Chicago to Orlando is approximately 36 hours by train. So one is looking at a schedule that is 2 nights and 1 day. This link for the Floridian had a 9 pm Chicago departure, mid-day Nashville departure and a 9 am Orlando arrival. Tampa was another 3+ hours and any connection to Miami would make the trip from Chicago to be close to 45+ hours.

http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/floridian.htm
This route used the former L&N route via Montgomery, AL and did not go through Atlanta. A routing to include Atlanta and a few other Georgia stops may take a little more time, but well worth the intermediate trios, especially if Savannah is included.

Actually I would do it differently I would bust the Chicago connections completely which some might not like but I have a very good reason for it.

One can if you leave early in the morning from Chicago make it down to Atlanta in day time hours where you are hitting a bunch of major population centers in daylight. You get Indianapolis, Louisville, Nashville, Chattanooga, and Atlanta. Georgia aside from Atlanta, Macon, and Savannah really doesn't have a large amount of population centers. So I would make that long slow 7 hour slog south out of Atlanta to Jacksonville in the middle of the night, and you should land in 91s time slot in Jacksonville. Which gives you some options you can combine 91/92 in with the Chicago train to cut down on 4 crew starts per day, and run it as a combined train. Or you could move 91 to a late night carding out of New York and turn it into the opposite of the Palmetto but for North Carolina to Florida. Which would give a later afternoon departure from Jacksonville. I would almost be tempted to move 91/92 especially 92's timing. It would be nice not to have 80 riding on 92s markers north of Raleigh. So you could get a better spread across the day. 91 isn't really in a bad spot as it is right now but if you shifted it back 8 hours you would open some more intermediate markets up which would be nice.

Can you tell I routinely think about how I would restructure the Amtrak system.

And that's not even the most radical thing I've thought about.

I've thought about proposing a privatization experiment with the Silver Meteor and Lake Shore Limited. My reasoning is my private train would be the independent variable on a route that has a control factor (Silver Star, and Capitol Limited) running on mostly the same route operated by Amtrak. Which would allow a good gauge of one could a private company run the trains at A. a profit, and B. could they entice more riders to ride. Of course there are things I would do differently I would shift the Southbound Meteor 97 back to 7 or 8 PM out of NY, and I would shift eastbound Lake Shore No. 48 to about 5 PM Central. This would allow me to interline the trains and I could cut down from needing 6 sets to needing 5 saving millions in equipment costs. I'm a firm believer in cutting costs where you can squeeze operational efficiencies into the company while still providing a superior soft product which I think Amtrak lacks.
 
@Seaboard92 I hope you did notice that they carefully avoided almost everything that had anything to do with any LD service. So all of that jiggery pokery with the Star and Crescent is apparently out of scope of whatever Amtrak is trying to peddle in this random map at present.

Simple things like Denver - Pueblo for some reason does not extend to La Junta or Trinidad? Wut?

In short, it is not a connected service plan based on basic mathematical models of connected graphs. It is a collection of random one ended lines added to the current map in most cases.

As someone on another board opined: The map has Stephen Gardner's name written all over it.
 
The attached link is for the Southern Railway's New Royal Palm which shows good connecting trains from Chicago and then to Tampa to illustrate what might be possible for a future Chicago to Florida train general running times that stopped in Atlanta.

http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track2/newroyalpalm195103.html
I was unfamiliar with the New Royal Palm, so thanks for posting. It included a service I would actually use - a through Buffalo to Florida sleeper.
 
I was unfamiliar with the New Royal Palm, so thanks for posting. It included a service I would actually use - a through Buffalo to Florida sleeper.

Fun fact the New Royal Palm was a winter season only streamliner that was lost in 1955. The equipment went to the regular Royal Palm that ran on the route year round.

I think there is a market for a Detroit-South train but I would definitely make it a section of something else. Personally I would send it south via the L&N routing to hit Louisville and Nashville. But I could see an argument where you conjoin the sections at Chattanooga and send the train down the Rathole via Knoxville. If you did that you would add quite a few city pairs to Atlanta.
 
I think there is a market for a Detroit-South train but I would definitely make it a section of something else. Personally I would send it south via the L&N routing to hit Louisville and Nashville. But I could see an argument where you conjoin the sections at Chattanooga and send the train down the Rathole via Knoxville. If you did that you would add quite a few city pairs to Atlanta.
Although a minority opinion, I still think a Detroit-Florida Auto Train would work, using the existing Sanford terminus to save money. It's less about Detroit specifically than the potential "capture" of a 400-mile radius around it.
 
If Brightline's Tampa station ends up being a one-block walk from TUS, I would say they would be serving TUS.
Yup. It will be a very very long block. But then again that is almost as far as it is to the current TECO Trolley stop from TUS too.

Frankly transit access planning for TUS sucks, and will apparently continue to do so.
 
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