Traveling on VIA this fall (3 different trains), I had assigned seats each time. I was even asked if I wanted to sit facing forward or backwards and was given the best window seat.
Seems like it can be done, if AMTRAK wanted to and cared!
New Coach Seating Procedure: Long Distance Trains on NEC
- Thread starter pennyk
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Traveling on VIA this fall (3 different trains), I had assigned seats each time. I was even asked if I wanted to sit facing forward or backwards and was given the best window seat.
Seems like it can be done, if AMTRAK wanted to and cared!
crescent-zephyr
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Qapla
Engineer
The problem is that "one-size-does-not-fit-all"
While some like assigned seating - others do not. While some want to pick their own seats - others do not like that method.
It does not matter what system they use to assign seats, at the train or online, those who want to pick their seat when they board will still complain - if they don't assign any seats and let you pick your seat when you board ... those who want to "reserve" a particular seat will complain. There is no solution that works for everyone.
While some like assigned seating - others do not. While some want to pick their own seats - others do not like that method.
It does not matter what system they use to assign seats, at the train or online, those who want to pick their seat when they board will still complain - if they don't assign any seats and let you pick your seat when you board ... those who want to "reserve" a particular seat will complain. There is no solution that works for everyone.
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crescent-zephyr
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Correct. It depends on the majority of the audience too. On the nec it’s mostly business people and students, lots of solo travelers which means that after they all take up 2 seats, they just start filling in the empty solo seats. In this case, passengers boarding as a couple or family are at a disadvantage. I know this personally, as when traveling with my mom to nyc on the Acela, we were in separate cars until Philadelphia where we could get 2 seats together.
On the LD trains, the majority is couple and families traveling together. In this case, by assigning seats, this assures that couples and families get seats together.
Seems sensible to me.
The seats were assigned when I made the reservation and bought the tickets.
Also on the NEC, most people are only traveling for an hour or two and can live with a "bad" seat on occasion. (And they do reserve seats in the Amfleet 1s for families and groups.) Keeping parents and small children together is perhaps the only critical reason for ensuring availability of group seating. Aside from that, on a short ride, most people seem to be able to live with the chance of being seperated.
Before the early 2000s all of the NEC trains, except for the Metroliners/Acelas were unreserved. Generally, there were no problems, except during busy holiday seasons, when you might have to stand the whole way (and travel times were a bit longer than they are now.)
jis
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Trains had to become all reserved when yield management was introduced across the board, in order to do differential pricing based on demand on specific train dynamically.
Qapla
Engineer
- "But that's not the car/coach I want to ride in!"
- "I want to pick my seat and my car/coach when I get on the train"
- "I want to reserve a seat on 'that' car/coach - the one without assigned seating"
I'm sure some would have that sentiment ... there is simply no full-proof answer to the seating situation.
Yup especially on Fridays and Sundays. I remember those days and people sitting on suitcases in the aisles and in the vestibules. I thought there was a safety concern that prompted Amtrak to make a change to insure that everyone had a seat.
crescent-zephyr
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How is that different from getting assigned seating on the platform? With Acela first class you don’t get to choose your seat correct?
When you make the reservation, they assign you the seat, you can change it immediately afterward if you want. Of course, there may be no desirable seats left and your stuck, but, then, presumably you bought the ticket because you wanted to travel somewhere, not because you wanted to sit in a particular seat.
TiBike
OBS Chief
With airline-style booking, you choose your own seat. The passenger has some measure of control, and it's not happening when the passenger (not to mention Amtrak staff) is stressed out. It's also impersonal – it won't turn into an unpleasant confrontation, which I've seen happen on platforms.
crescent-zephyr
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Ah ok. I actually chose coach err “business class” on Acela because of the assigned seating in first class... I would rather have a window seat than an aisle seat in FC on Acela and since I couldn’t figure it out I just booked BC. Sadly I was only able to snag a “half window” but such is life. Ha.
Qapla
Engineer
A train is not an airplane!
On most flights all seats are assigned for the duration of the flight - on a train some/many of the seats are only assigned/used for part of the trip before being vacated and available for another person.
If someone gets off early or stays on late that would cause some problems with seats assigned at ticket purchase.
Many on here agree that the current person in charge is an airline person and seems to be trying to turn Amtrak into an airline clone - and most seem to NOT want that ... then they want airline-style booking?
C'mon Man - you can't have it both ways ... do you want Amtrak t stay a rail line or become an airline clone?
See, even with totally open seating, sometimes when you show up, the train is so crowded that no good seats are available. Actually, we should feel good about that. It means that lots of people are riding trains and putting a lie to the canard that "nobody rides trains anymore." But it might mean that you can't get the seat you want.
If one is riding the train for the experience of sitting in a particular seat, then one should plan to take their trip during a time of year or time of day when business is slow. If one is riding a train for transportation, it might be necessary to suck it up and take the aisle (or other unfavored) seat. Anyway everybody arrives at the destination at the same time no matter what seat they're in.
Foreign railroads have been making seat reservations for years, and Amtrak has been doing it for Acela Express first class for over a year, and things work fine.
Come to think of it, Amtrak, and all the private railroads before that managed to reserve sleeping car space in a way that accounted for space that's used by different people for different parts of the trip. The private railroads managed to do that before there were computers. With computers, I can't see doing this as being anything but a trivial exercise. If they could do it with for sleepers 100 years ago, surely they can do it for coach today, and this has nothing to do with Amtrak emulating airline procedures.
jis
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Most mysteriously many successfully operating, indeed much more successful than Amtrak, passenger rail outfits around the world. They seem to manage assigned reserved seats just fine, that turn over three or four times en route. It has nothing to do with the false propaganda perpetrated by a few clueless rail fanatics about airline person blah blah blah...
Speaking of getting on late, try that on Amtrak and on occasions see your entire reservation, for not only that trip but for all subsequent legs on that reservation disappear due to no show. Also try convincing an Amtrak Conductor that you ought to be allowed to stay on board beyond Albuquerque when your reservation is upto Albuquerque. That has got to be the most contrived silly argument that I have seen in a while.
TiBike
OBS Chief
You must be thinking of someone else. Amtrak should run more like an airline – safe, conveniently scheduled, on time, clean transportation, serving dense corridors where a train's carrying capacity gives it a competitive advantage over buses and its in-town stations give it an advantage over airlines.
Jis hit it on the head. Pre-reserved seats on trains is common practice around the world. So is "get on the train, pick a seat and take responsibility for getting off when you should". Some systems have both on the same train – pay extra for a pre-reserved seat, or take your chances in an unreserved car.
Both models are familiar to passengers in the U.S. and are accepted as normal practice. What's not familiar or normal is to show up without a seat reservation expecting to choose your own seat, and then be spoken to and chivvied about like a six year old.
AFS1970
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I can't say that I have adapted to the reserved movie seats all that well, but I am learning. As for Amtrak, I took my first Acela ride in 2019 and the conductor saw my wife and I looking for seats and put us into two seats together. My wife hated them, I didn't mind, but they were not as comfortable as I had been lead to believe. I would have liked a chance to try my luck for a different set, as we were at the seats by a table that were back to back with the next row so did not recline. That being said I have had similar conductors who will find a seat for you in regular NEC coach but that seems more rare.
I think a computer could easily be set up to deal with people getting on and off at different stops. As a matter of fact it could be set up to group people by car who were getting off at a given stop, this making door coverage easier. It could also be set up to spread them out to reduce exit crowding. That part of the equation seems to be the simplest. I think the biggest problem would be getting the passenger to stand at the right platform space to enter the correct car.
I think a computer could easily be set up to deal with people getting on and off at different stops. As a matter of fact it could be set up to group people by car who were getting off at a given stop, this making door coverage easier. It could also be set up to spread them out to reduce exit crowding. That part of the equation seems to be the simplest. I think the biggest problem would be getting the passenger to stand at the right platform space to enter the correct car.
I think people are more OK with assigned seating in advance but less when done by the conductor. You can choose when doing it online (I just booked a NER BC seat for April and immediately changed what I was assigned, eg) whereas the conductor does it with whatever his internal logic is. People just want some control and another human telling you to sit someplace because he/she said so upsets people, even if Amtrak has its reasons. Plus knowing what you're getting in advance cuts down the stress on travel day.
With VIA I seem to recall that the assignments are automatic on booking however you can call an agent and they will switch the assignments on request depending on availability. I find this infinitely preferable to unreserved coach. If Amtrak were to incorporate this feature presumably people who didn't want advance seat assignments could bypass the option while booking which is, yes, the airline model.
Amtrak markets to groups and families, so there is an expectation when booking of getting seats together. I think this becomes more important for longer coach trips, say 3-8 hours and beyond. If it's a shorter trip or a regular commute the seating isn't as important. A vacation trip with family members or friends, no question of wanting to spend time with them, and if there are little ones it's a necessity. Most conductors, at least on the Wolverine, keep a four seater here and there for groups of 3-4. I did once observe two 4-seaters each occupied by a single person although that didn't last. I feel bad for the conductor in that situation, they were probably thinking Do I want to be complained about by the family that can't sit together or the single people who have to move... Being able to reserve seats at bookings would solve many problems.
Amtrak markets to groups and families, so there is an expectation when booking of getting seats together. I think this becomes more important for longer coach trips, say 3-8 hours and beyond. If it's a shorter trip or a regular commute the seating isn't as important. A vacation trip with family members or friends, no question of wanting to spend time with them, and if there are little ones it's a necessity. Most conductors, at least on the Wolverine, keep a four seater here and there for groups of 3-4. I did once observe two 4-seaters each occupied by a single person although that didn't last. I feel bad for the conductor in that situation, they were probably thinking Do I want to be complained about by the family that can't sit together or the single people who have to move... Being able to reserve seats at bookings would solve many problems.
Unless you like rear-facing seats, you pretty much have to call VIA for most corridor bookings. They're working towards a "Euro-style" fixed seating configuration on those trains, so no longer physically rotate the seats to direction-of-travel. When booking online the rear-facing are always filled first and there are a few other idiosyncrasies that sometimes split couples or families travelling together. It's usually no problem to sort out with a human being, although as with any customer service there will be exceptions requiring a second call.
