New Niagara Falls (NY) station

[CHamilton]

*** This thread was split from another originally posted in 2008 ***

This (was) an old thread, but there is finally some progress.

Leaders Break Ground On New Niagara Falls Train Station

NIAGARA FALLS, N.Y. -- Local leaders broke ground Monday morning on the final phase of the new train station in Niagara Falls, officially known as the Niagara Falls International Railway Station & Intermodal Transportation Center.

The project has been discussed since 1986, but now all of the funding is in place and the project is moving forward.

When it's completed, the site will house a new Amtrak station as well as Customs facilities and an Underground Railroad museum.

It will be located just feet from the Whirlpool Bridge right near the historic U.S. Customhouse on Whirlpool Street. Leaders say that's a much better location than the current Amtrak station, which is at a rail yard along Lockport Road.

The total project cost exceeds $25 million with more than $16 million coming from the federal government.

 

[Long Train Runnin']

I still don't believe this is the ideal location for this station, but I suppose it is better than the current one. Although I learned after living up there for a little while the locals in NF would simply take the train to Buffalo, and drive back to NF proper via Grand Island.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Wow (originally) this thread (was) started in 2008, with the statement funds have been secured, after about 20 years of delays.

6 years later ground breaking......

So 25+ years for a new station to be study, planned, designed, and contracted out.

So how many years before its done?

I know it can take time to get permits but .....

 

[afigg]

Wow (originally) this thread (was) started in 2008, with the statement funds have been secured, after about 20 years of delays.

6 years later ground breaking......

So 25+ years for a new station to be study, planned, designed, and contracted out.

So how many years before its done?

I know it can take time to get permits but .....

I wonder if this was a real ground breaking ceremony or just a political pretend ground breaking ceremony? If construction starts soon, from the video clip, this is a major station project, so perhaps yet another project that gets completed in 2016 or early 2017?

PS. Found the AP wire story on the ground breaking which states the construction contract for the third and final phase was awarded in April and that the construction is expected to take 18 months to 2 years to complete. So perhaps a mid-2016 completion.

 

[neroden]

I know the cause of a number of the delays.

(1) There was toxic contamination in the ground from the former railyard usage. All of the contractors overbid to cover the high estimate of the toxic remediation costs. So all the bids were thrown out; the local government hired a toxics remediation contractor and cleaned it up themselves; and then they sent it out to bid again.

(2) The stabilization of the historic building was substantially slower and somewhat more expensive than expected. This part of the construction is actually *done* now -- it started back in 2009.

(3) As a result of all of this, the approved design ended up being over the original budget so it had to be redesigned to be cheaper, and the city had to allocate additional money.

(4) The platform & track part of the project seems to have been delayed while Amtrak purchased the associated tracks from CN and CSX. Even though both railroads were trying to unload the tracks, this seems to have taken a long time too.

On the whole, these are what I'd call legitimate delays -- they mostly relate to unexpected stuff largely out of the control of the lead agency, which is the municipality.

I expect this will get going pretty fast now. The design has been approved by Immigration & Customs Enforcement, Amtrak, and everyone else, the site has been very thoroughly investigated, the toxics have already been cleaned up, the historic building stabilization / preservation part is done, the land is all owned by the city or Amtrak, the funding is all there, and the contractor is actually under contract. It could be done this year if the contractor moves fast, though 2015-2016 is the prediction. At this point it's just building a building.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Very optimistic time frame! Since its New York look for delays, cost overruns. And money that vanishes with no trace! 2016 would be a soonest estimate for completion but don't be shocked if its 2020!!!

And isn' t $25 million sort of a Cadillac price for such a faded city?

 

[neroden]

The contractors in Niagara Falls are reputed to be pretty honest (this isn't NYC), and I believe it's a fixed-price contract. They'll get it built ASAP so they can move on to the next job. (Don't ask about the quality...)

For reference, a lot of the money went into the toxics remediation and the rehabilitation of the historic customshouse building, stuff which probably needed to be done anyway. The actual train station costs a lot less than the $25 million total.

 

[Bob Dylan]

The contractors in Niagara Falls are reputed to be pretty honest (this isn't NYC), and I believe it's a fixed-price contract. They'll get it built ASAP so they can move on to the next job. (Don't ask about the quality...)

For reference, a lot of the money went into the toxics remediation and the rehabilitation of the historic customshouse building, stuff which probably needed to be done anyway. The actual train station costs a lot less than the $25 million total.

I'll take your word for this but I'm still from Missouri on these kind of deals ,especially in the Northeast, Show me!

 

[Anderson]

Newport News is spending about $20m on a new station.(mostly state/federal money). From what I can tell, new decent-sized stations just don't come cheap.

 

[Paul Dow]

And isn' t $25 million sort of a Cadillac price for such a faded city?

That's a huge bargain compared to the $105 million for the West Haven Conn. Metro North / Shoreline East station.

It seems every publicly funded building project in Conn. now has to have bent steel girders for the sole purpose of increasing costs.

 

[CHamilton]

The renovation of Seattle's King Street Station cost at least $50M, although I believe it included the whole building, not just the areas that Amtrak uses.

 

[afigg]

And isn' t $25 million sort of a Cadillac price for such a faded city?

That's a huge bargain compared to the $105 million for the West Haven Conn. Metro North / Shoreline East station.

It seems every publicly funded building project in Conn. now has to have bent steel girders for the sole purpose of increasing costs..

Did the $105 million include the installation of 11 miles of 4th track and catenary for passenger service? Converting that part of the New Haven Line to 4 tracks for passenger trains was part of the upgrades needed for the West Haven station. Always have to look at what the project components are as there may be a lot of work involved below the headline item, in this case, a new MNRR station on the New Haven line.

 

[jis]

And isn' t $25 million sort of a Cadillac price for such a faded city?

Why is it that otherwise completely sane rail enthusiasts often get bent out of shape when money is spent on rail? This incidentally sometimes includes me too, like me bitching about the price tag and useful life of Talgo in Michigan on another thread. So I am just wondering aloud here.
But in this case $25 million for a facility that serves not only as a station but also as a C&I checkpoint, does that really seem to be so much out of line? It also involves rebuilding the trackage and adding a siding too, not just refurbishment and extension of the building.

 

[jimhudson]

Well, I'm glad Niagara Falls is getting a new station and getting out of the freight yards! But IMHO Niagara Falls on the New York side is a dump so I m thinking that some that 25 mill might better be spent on new cars or improving the terrible tracks between Buffalo and Niagara Falls! A pretty nice Building should be able to be built for say 5-10Million

And speaking of Buffalo, why does it need two Stations, the Exchange St Station could be closed and Depew used for all Buffalo Trains! The savings can be spent on improving the tracks and updating the Depew Station!

 

[neroden]

Exchange St. is a *much* better station location. It was deliberately reintroduced back in the dark days when Depew was the only station.

Depew is still needed for the train to Chicago and is useful for the suburbs.

There's been talk of relocating both stations to the wye at Hamburg St, and of extending MetroRail from Main St. over to there, but it's just talk.

 

[neroden]

Well, I'm glad Niagara Falls is getting a new station and getting out of the freight yards! But IMHO Niagara Falls on the New York side is a dump so I m thinking that some that 25 mill might better be spent on new cars or improving the terrible tracks between Buffalo and Niagara Falls! A pretty nice Building should be able to be built for say 5-10Million

And that's about what the actual building costs, as opposed to the trackwork, the land purchase, the toxic spill cleanup, the historic preservation and repair of the old customs house...

 

[Bob Dylan]

Thanks for the info on Buffalo and Niagara Falls! I better understand the issues involved, it helps me sitting down here in Texas playing armchair Amtrak CEO ! My next act will be to fire the bean counters on the "cut team"and let some managers with actual customer service experience do their jobs!