New Southern Belle

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John Santos

Service Attendant
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
157
When CN purchased IC, the initial logo was CN/IC or CNIC. But that didn't last long. The logo on locomotives, new rolling stock, and correspondence is now merely CN.
So they missed an advertising opportunity to say their railroad is "the most scenic in the world!"
 

MikefromCrete

Conductor
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Mar 24, 2009
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2,666
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Crete, IL
Nice that they have an ICRR heritage unit...but why, oh why, couldn't they have done it up in the chocolate, and orange scheme?🤔

Image from American Rails. com:

View attachment 21372
Well, for one thing, the chocolate and orange was only used on passenger units. IC's freight locos -- including the Geeps used in passenger service -- were always in black and white. During the ICG era, freight locos showed up in orange and white.
 

railiner

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Mar 20, 2009
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Palm Beach County
Well, for one thing, the chocolate and orange was only used on passenger units. IC's freight locos -- including the Geeps used in passenger service -- were always in black and white. During the ICG era, freight locos showed up in orange and white.
You're absolutely correct of course, historically speaking, but still....
 

mlanoue

Train Attendant
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Oct 30, 2003
Messages
99
Location
Joliet, Illinois
Except on the brand new IC heritage unit, seen here west of Toronto, courtesy of Railpictures.ca.
View attachment 21371
Woah--I saw that one or another one just like that a few weeks ago just sitting at an old EJ&E highway crossing in Grundy County, IL. I've seen it twice now. CN owns the "J" now, so that makes sense, but I didn't know it was a new heritage unit. That's nice!
 

jiml

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Somewhere in Southern Ontario
On my last trip in Michigan in January I accidentally bumped into the BC Rail one twas a great snowy chase.
The BC Rail one is sharp. Very reminiscent of the first Amtrak scheme on their P32's (the "Pepsi Can" livery, only less gaudy) and I think it would look good pulling a long consist of those new Midwest Siemens coaches.
 

Seaboard92

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Dec 31, 2014
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South Carolina
The BC Rail one is sharp. Very reminiscent of the first Amtrak scheme on their P32's (the "Pepsi Can" livery, only less gaudy) and I think it would look good pulling a long consist of those new Midwest Siemens coaches.
After hearing how the Chargers did this last year I wouldn't be surprised if we see that happen at some point.
 

bms

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
446
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Cleveland
Going back to the original post: I don't think there would be enough business to justify a train from Kansas City to New Orleans, but I think if the train began in Denver, it would do much better. I have an idea for a Denver-Kansas City overnight train, but on the other side it is a Kansas City-New Orleans daytime train.
 

PaTrainFan

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May 1, 2017
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328
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Pittsburgh, Pa.
Going back to the original post: I don't think there would be enough business to justify a train from Kansas City to New Orleans, but I think if the train began in Denver, it would do much better. I have an idea for a Denver-Kansas City overnight train, but on the other side it is a Kansas City-New Orleans daytime train.
While your idea may have merit, let's face it, Amtrak has no intention of adding new overnight trains. They've proven it with this proposed map, and if given a choice, they would eliminated most of those currently in service.
 
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Seaboard92

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South Carolina
How would one route a Denver-New Orleans train via Kansas city via the direct UP EX Kansas Pacific route, or would you take the EX Burlington on the California Zephyr route to Omaha and then down to Kansas City. This routing would have better population.
 

toddinde

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Apr 23, 2015
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233
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Sierra Vista, AZ
Going back to the original post: I don't think there would be enough business to justify a train from Kansas City to New Orleans, but I think if the train began in Denver, it would do much better. I have an idea for a Denver-Kansas City overnight train, but on the other side it is a Kansas City-New Orleans daytime train.
If you want that, and I do, extend the Cardinal to Denver, and have a connection to the City of New Orleans. The Cardinal should definitely have a St Louis/Kansas City section. Kansas City to Denver would be a natural extension. Essentially on the schedule of the old City of St Louis. An overnight train from Denver to Kansas City would be a winner, and could provide Kansas residents in Manhattan and Topeka a morning run into Kansas City and an evening return.
 

bms

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Jan 29, 2018
Messages
446
Location
Cleveland
This thread slipped my mind for a few days, but I took a look at the Southern Belle route again. Although it has good endpoints, on second thought, there really isn't enough population along the Southern Belle route to be worth reviving, at least not until ten better routes are revived. But this is the schedule I came up with for a Denver-Kansas City sleeper train:

Eastbound Colorado Eagle No. 14
9:15 Dp Denver (MM 0) (Mountain Time)
F 10:45 Limon, CO (MM 89)
5:35 Manhattan, KS (MM 521) (Central Time)
6:25 Topeka, KS (MM 572)
6:55 Lawrence, KS (MM 600)
7:45 Ar Kansas City, MO (MM 640)
---
8:15 Dp Kansas City, MO (via Missouri River Runner No. 314)
1:55 Ar St. Louis (via Missouri River Runner)

Westbound Colorado Eagle No. 13
4:00 Dp St. Louis (via Missouri River Runner No. 313)
9:40 Ar Kansas City, MO (via Missouri River Runner)
---
10:10 Dp Kansas City, MO (Central Time)
11:00 Lawrence, KS
11:30 Topeka, KS
12:20 Manhattan, KS
F 6:10 Limon, CO (Mountain Time)
7:40 Denver, CO

I think this is an excellent sleeper route because there are big cities at either end, you can still pick up most of the population in Kansas, and you're running from 1-5 a.m. through areas that have barely any people anyway. Hopefully I didn't mess up the timing with the time zone changes - 95% of my life was spent in a single time zone so that's always my biggest challenge in this!

I planned this to connect to the Missouri River Runner, which resulted in somewhat undesirable times in Lawrence, Topeka, and Manhattan. I thought bringing in the Denver-St. Louis market was worth it.

At 640 miles, this train would have to be state-supported if it were a separate train from the connecting Missouri River Runner No. 313 / No. 314. However, it would qualify for Federal support if they added sleeper cars to the Missouri River Runner and branded it as a single train, running 923 miles. This schedule also connects to the California Zephyr in Denver.
 
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bms

Lead Service Attendant
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Jan 29, 2018
Messages
446
Location
Cleveland
Kansas City to New Orleans train? Where have I heard that before? Hmmmm....let's see....oh yeah....;)

just kidding, guys...I know it's not what is being proposed here. But here's a thought for Denver - Kansas City...how about just a connection to the Chief at La Junta, serving Colorado Springs, and Pueblo?
Great post, I either never heard of the River Cities or I forgot about it over the years.

I would definitely support a connection to the Chief, but I got to thinking: To get better service between Denver and Los Angeles, it would make a lot more sense to just revive the Desert Wind rather than taking that roundabout route.
 

railiner

Conductor
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Mar 20, 2009
Messages
9,385
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Palm Beach County
Great post, I either never heard of the River Cities or I forgot about it over the years.

I would definitely support a connection to the Chief, but I got to thinking: To get better service between Denver and Los Angeles, it would make a lot more sense to just revive the Desert Wind rather than taking that roundabout route.
I would love to see the Desert Wind (as well as the Pioneer) brought back. As for a less "roundabout" route, if they ran a connection to the Chief at Trinidad instead (or in addition to) La Junta, that routing might be faster Denver to Los Angeles than the Desert Wind would....
 

VentureForth

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Jan 23, 2007
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West Melbourne, FL
Kinda back to the original post, iirc, KCS with onboard with the proposed "Crescent Star" that Kay Bailey Hutchinson was pushing back in the late 90's early 00's. That never happened. Doubt we'll ever see the Southern Belle. :(

I had an opportunity in 1991 to ride on what was one of the last ever LD passenger trains in Mexico. I just remember it to be a glorified bus. Was on there for nearly a day. Don't remember much about it, and I wasn't quite the railfan that I am today to have appreciated the journey more.
 

bms

Lead Service Attendant
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
446
Location
Cleveland
I would love to see the Desert Wind (as well as the Pioneer) brought back. As for a less "roundabout" route, if they ran a connection to the Chief at Trinidad instead (or in addition to) La Junta, that routing might be faster Denver to Los Angeles than the Desert Wind would....
In my opinion, it would be best to reinstate the Pioneer and the Desert Wind. The cities served by these trains have gotten a lot bigger since they were discontinued.

The Pioneer would be a section of the Zephyr, and would leave Denver to serve Cheyenne, Boise, Portland, and Seattle.

The Desert Wind would also be a section of the Zephyr, and would leave Salt Lake City to serve Las Vegas and Los Angeles.
 
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