New station for Raleigh, NC?

[GaSteve]

Details here.

 

[GC]

Details here.

I'm on the task force that made the recommendation. The 10% ($3m) local share was approved as part of a transportation bond package by a 66-34% referendum vote in October.

 

[xyzzy]

Just for clarity: this is not the Raleigh Union Station proposed in 2009-2010. Instead, the new proposal is to adapt an existing industrial building for use by Amtrak. The price tag is much lower, and until such time as SEHSR becomes a reality the new proposal will be more than adequate. Also it will be an enormous improvement over the current Amtrak station.

 

[cirdan]

Just for clarity: this is not the Raleigh Union Station proposed in 2009-2010. Instead, the new proposal is to adapt an existing industrial building for use by Amtrak. The price tag is much lower, and until such time as SEHSR becomes a reality the new proposal will be more than adequate. Also it will be an enormous improvement over the current Amtrak station.

What's wrong with the current station? I like it myself.

Wouldn't it make more sense to push for the Union Station in the long term while making the most of the present one in the meantime?

An intermediate solution is just going to cost money and temporary solutions are rarely good ones.

 

[afigg]

What's wrong with the current station? I like it myself.

Wouldn't it make more sense to push for the Union Station in the long term while making the most of the present one in the meantime?

An intermediate solution is just going to cost money and temporary solutions are rarely good ones.

The station, platforms, and track upgrades at the Viaduct building location that are proposed in this 44 page viewgraph presentation from October by NCDOT rail does not look temporary. The presentation has a lot of photographs and diagrams and does a good job of explaining the new Raleigh station plan. At $47 million for phase 1, this is not a small project.

According to the presentation, the problem with the current station is inadequate parking at 54 spaces, too small a waiting room, short platform that requires the Silver Star to make a double stop, and the passenger trains block freight movements when stopped at the station. Looking it up, Raleigh had 164,745 passengers in FY10, 192,434 in FY11 which is pretty fast growth.

The Phase 1 plan is to build a 800' long high level platform with rebuilt tracks at the current yard space on the inside of the connecting triangle with 2 accessible tracks, track upgrades for higher speeds, a new station in the middle with connecting tunnels to the platform(s), more parking capacity, room for Phase 2 growth for a SEHSR platform to the north coming from the S-Line & commuter platforms. The pullover tracks and center 800' platform would allow for 2 trains in the station at the same time for more flexible operations and possibly allowing for cross platform transfer from a Piedmont train to/from the Silver Star if they were to coordinate schedules when there are more daily Piedmont trains.

The physical layout of the 2 widely separated platforms for Piedmont and future SEHSR service is awkward, but the existing track routes limit their options unless they want to spend a lot of money re-routing the proposed SEHSR line.

 

[cirdan]

What's wrong with the current station? I like it myself.

Wouldn't it make more sense to push for the Union Station in the long term while making the most of the present one in the meantime?

An intermediate solution is just going to cost money and temporary solutions are rarely good ones.

The station, platforms, and track upgrades at the Viaduct building location that are proposed in this 44 page viewgraph presentation from October by NCDOT rail does not look temporary. The presentation has a lot of photographs and diagrams and does a good job of explaining the new Raleigh station plan. At $47 million for phase 1, this is not a small project.

According to the presentation, the problem with the current station is inadequate parking at 54 spaces, too small a waiting room, short platform that requires the Silver Star to make a double stop, and the passenger trains block freight movements when stopped at the station. Looking it up, Raleigh had 164,745 passengers in FY10, 192,434 in FY11 which is pretty fast growth.

The Phase 1 plan is to build a 800' long high level platform with rebuilt tracks at the current yard space on the inside of the connecting triangle with 2 accessible tracks, track upgrades for higher speeds, a new station in the middle with connecting tunnels to the platform(s), more parking capacity, room for Phase 2 growth for a SEHSR platform to the north coming from the S-Line & commuter platforms. The pullover tracks and center 800' platform would allow for 2 trains in the station at the same time for more flexible operations and possibly allowing for cross platform transfer from a Piedmont train to/from the Silver Star if they were to coordinate schedules when there are more daily Piedmont trains.

The physical layout of the 2 widely separated platforms for Piedmont and future SEHSR service is awkward, but the existing track routes limit their options unless they want to spend a lot of money re-routing the proposed SEHSR line.

Thanks for that info.

I can see that the new layout allows for many additional trains and reduces conflicts with freight.

One negative aspect that I see is that the waiting room is some way from the tracks (from any of the tracks). This will lead to quite (very) long walks in tunnels which, even if well lit, cleaned and maintained will not create the most welcoming of atmospheres. Also, especially as it is an intermediate station and train stopping times should not be too long, people like to wait close to the tracks rather than in a waiting room that is some way away from them and from where they will have a long kindergarten walk to the train. Also think that if a train arrives there will also be people getting off and that underground walkway will be a scene of congestion.

I know it's not possible to locate the two parts of the station closer as that is the geometry of the tracks and they cannot be changed, but how about two separate facilities each with its own waiting room etc, and just a tunnel between for those passengers needing to make a connection?

 

[MattW]

Actually, I believe that the plan posted above is not the plan for the $47 million temporary station, but rather the ultimate plan for Raleigh's new station.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

According to the "News" on the Trains Magazine website, the warehouse project looks pretty sound now

 

[afigg]

Actually, I believe that the plan posted above is not the plan for the $47 million temporary station, but rather the ultimate plan for Raleigh's new station.

From skimming the viewgraph presentations at this Raleigh Passenger Rail Task Force website, there have been a number of studies and alternate station locations & designs considered over the years. The $150 million plus Multi-Modal Center station uses platforms close to or at the locations in the viewgraph presentation I linked to, but if I am reading the plans correctly, has an entirely new station complex to the east of the tracks with a lot of TOD projects around it.

The Viaduct building plan uses an existing building. I guess the long term plan would be to then build a fancy new "Union station" building to the east, presumably with a parking garage that would use the same platforms. None of the plans appear to call for a compact arrangement of platforms and station, but the layout of the tracks and route obviously present constraints on the station choices.

 

[abcnews]

BTW - last March we took the Silver Star to Lakeland to see some Spring Training baseball.... We stopped in Raleigh and it was quite a sight.... there appeared to be over 100 passengers boarding the Star. Huge crowd. The station platform was packed. Long lines and it looked like a scene from the 1940s, back when rail travel ruled. And it was a Monday night / Monday, March 14, 2011.