New Support for Gulf States service resumption

[brianpmcdonnell17]

... what would the restored segment be named (if it even comes to fruition)?

The Sunset Limited would be restored to what it was before?

An extension of the City of New Orleans or ...?

Or something totally different?

It would either be an extension of the City of New Orleans or a stand-alone service of an unknown name.

No. Just no.
Brian, you should reread the Amtrak study. The final recommendation is for extending some of the City of New Orleans cars to Orlando. (It also proposed a corridor train to run New Orleans-Biloxi-Mobile. The corridor train would require state support, so don't hold your breath.)

A stand-alone train New Orleans-Jacksonville/Orlando would be a big loser -- passenger loser, money loser, and require more equipment. Not going to happen. Get it out of your head.

Re-extending the Sunset Ltd again would be a big loser. It's been tried and failed.

The long route had miserable time-keeping. A little delay near Yuma could throw things off for the next 2,000 miles and delay the train by a full day by the time it got to Florida! At best, the Sunset's arrivals and departures east of New Orleans were the post-midnight pits.

The new study has worked out a schedule that works New Orleans-Biloxi-Mobile before midnight, puts the unsignaled big empty Pensacola-Tallahassee stretch overnight, and has good times in Jacksonville and Orlando, with good connection north and south.

The locals who know the schedule issue best seem to support the new proposal enthusiastically.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't think a name for this segment has been discussed, much less decided.

Maybe they will have a name-the-train contest like Missouri did to get the "River Runner".

I agree that a CONO extension would be much more successful than a stand-alone train, but unless I missed something that possibility has not been eliminated entirely. I am aware the SL will not be extended; I did not mention that. If it does end up being a CONO extension, isn't it most likely that the name will remain the same? The TE only has two thru-cars running on an entirely separate LD train and it still retains the name. In both cases, the namesake city/state is a major intermediate point but not the endpoint for the entire train.
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[dlagrua]

Getting by the bureaucracy to get Gulf Coast Service started again seems to be an unending task. IMO, the service could start slowly with a CONO split at NO, perhaps with a through train as on the EB at Tacoma where half the train goes on to Portland and the other half to Seattle. The biggest question is that there is little Superliner equipment to spare.

 

[JayPea]

The EB splits in Spokane, not Tacoma.

 

[Don Newcomb]

No. Just no.

.......

A stand-alone train New Orleans-Jacksonville/Orlando would be a big loser -- passenger loser, money loser, and require more equipment. Not going to happen. Get it out of your head.

Re-extending the Sunset Ltd again would be a big loser. It's been tried and failed.

The long route had miserable time-keeping. A little delay near Yuma could throw things off for the next 2,000 miles and delay the train by a full day by the time it got to Florida! At best, the Sunset's arrivals and departures east of New Orleans were the post-midnight pits.

.......

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't think a name for this segment has been discussed, much less decided.

Maybe they will have a name-the-train contest like Missouri did to get the "River Runner".

In my experience, the whole NW. Fla. segment of the Sunset LTD was a waste. Maybe some through traffic: Orlando-NOL, but no one's going to be getting on or off the train in DeFuniak Springs at 3;00 am. NOL-Mobile is the only segment that's worth the effort. But there's politicians involved.

As has been pointed out before, there are a lot of swing bridges between New Orleans and Mobile. CSX has a point there and it's something that needs to be worked around. My train buff friends tell me that the CSX line between New Orleans and Flomaton is often running at max capacity.

Since "Humming Bird" isn't currently used, I'll make that my suggestion. The "Humming Bird" did connect Chicago, Mobile and New Orleans but not points east of Folmaton.

 

[jis]

Since "Humming Bird" isn't currently used, I'll make that my suggestion. The "Humming Bird" did connect Chicago, Mobile and New Orleans but not points east of Folmaton.

The last train that ran that route before Amtrak's Sunset (East) was the Gulf Wind. Amtrak ran a train named the Gulf Breeze between Birmingham and Mobile for a little while.

Maybe because it will connect to Orlando it could be called Donald Duck if it must be named after a bird - of sorts.

 

[Hytec]

Since "Humming Bird" isn't currently used, I'll make that my suggestion. The "Humming Bird" did connect Chicago, Mobile and New Orleans but not points east of Folmaton.

The last train that ran that route before Amtrak's Sunset (East) was the Gulf Wind. Amtrak ran a train named the Gulf Breeze between Birmingham and Mobile for a little while.

Maybe because it will connect to Orlando it could be called Donald Duck if it must be named after a bird - of sorts.

Perhaps Daffy Duck since politicians are involved. :wacko: (I know, Daffy wasn't a Disney character, but still.)

 

[Bob Dylan]

Another "Only Big Cities Matter" supporter.

This is totally false thinking as the Democrats discovered in the 2016 Election, and now the whole Country is discovering to its Sorrow!.

An plenty of people catch Amtrak in the wee hours all over the Country!( see San Antonio,Spokane,Salt Lake City etc.etc.)

And to borrow a WWII transportatiin name, how about "The Ruptered Duck?"

 

[neroden]

My bottom line on all these proposals is: passenger rail never makes any progress unless passenger interests buy at least part of the tracks. There are very few exceptions, with the Capitol Corridor being really the only one so far.

 

[DonNewcomb]

Rather disappointing to the folks on the MS Gulf Coast who were looking forward to rail service.

Leaders in Alabama’s port city of Mobile are dimming chances for reviving passenger train service along the northern Gulf Coast.

Member of the City Council’s finance committee withheld support for funding service through Alabama’s port city during a meeting Tuesday. Al.com reported the full council could vote on the issue next week.

Amtrak hasn’t operated along the coast since Hurricane Katrina in 2005. The Southern Rail Commission supports restarting passenger trains between Mobile and New Orleans with stops in Mississippi.

Louisiana and Mississippi have approved funding to restart the trains, but Alabama hasn’t. Officials at the Alabama State Port say passenger trains could disrupt freight service through the port, and city leaders including Mayor Sandy Stimpson have expressed concerns.

“There is a lot that needs to be explained before I can support it,” said council member Joel Daves, chairman of the finance committee.

Mobile is being asked to commit as much as $3 million over three years to pay for Amtrak service starting in 2023, when Amtrak service is expected to resume. The city commitment doesn’t include potential capital costs to upgrade the existing rail line. An additional $2.2 million is needed from an Alabama-based source to finance those improvements, but Gov. Kay Ivey isn’t backing the project.

Mississippi has dedicated $15 million, Louisiana has approved $10 million and Amtrak has set aside $6 million toward capital improvements along the rail line. The project faces a deadline of Feb. 5 for getting local funding to match federal funding.

n.b. This wasn't the thread I was looking for but thought it was when I posted this. So it's a double post.

 

[Greg]

This whole charade has been one of the biggest fiasco dog and pony shows that I have seen in my 61 years. Amtrak is not coming back to the gulf coast and they need to quit wasting the money dangling carrots before us.

 

[MikefromCrete]

This whole charade has been one of the biggest fiasco dog and pony shows that I have seen in my 61 years. Amtrak is not coming back to the gulf coast and they need to quit wasting the money dangling carrots before us.

Amtrak's offering a plan here. It's the locally elected officials who are blocking efforts. Time to elect new leaders.

 

[Thirdrail7]

This is why everyone is skeptical about the proposed "corridor initiatives." How do they plan on unifying the states to pay for the plans that some of the states aren't interested in?

 

[TiBike]

Amtrak can cherrypick the states that want it. Given Amtrak's operational constraints, the willing states are sufficient for now, and for years to come.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Amtrak can cherrypick the states that want it. Given Amtrak's operational constraints, the willing states are sufficient for now, and for years to come.

That's another thing (that may not be appropriate for this thread). What makes Amtrak so sure it will get these corridors it wants to run?

 

[TiBike]

That's another thing (that may not be appropriate for this thread). What makes Amtrak so sure it will get these corridors it wants to run?

If Amtrak shows up in, say, Sacramento with an offer and considerable skin in the game, I'm guessing people will listen. If all Amtrak does is suggest a new, fully state subsidised route, the answer will probably be something like "put your email address on the list and we'll send you a copy of the RFP, if and when we issue one". On recent evidence - i.e. the Metrolink contract (or rather, lack thereof) - that's not going to be much help to Amtrak.

 

[Anderson]

If Amtrak shows up in, say, Sacramento with an offer and considerable skin in the game, I'm guessing people will listen. If all Amtrak does is suggest a new, fully state subsidised route, the answer will probably be something like "put your email address on the list and we'll send you a copy of the RFP, if and when we issue one". On recent evidence - i.e. the Metrolink contract (or rather, lack thereof) - that's not going to be much help to Amtrak.

If anything, I suspect that the PRIIA 209 mess has left a bad enough taste in some states' mouths that I could see a few states consider tapping their "local" agencies in lieu of Amtrak.

 

[Barb Stout]

If anything, I suspect that the PRIIA 209 mess has left a bad enough taste in some states' mouths that I could see a few states consider tapping their "local" agencies in lieu of Amtrak.

What is the deal with PRIIA 209?

 

[Thirdrail7]

A lot of states were miffed at the cost allocations and what is viewed as a lack of transparency.

 

[Anderson]

Yes. For example (and the example scales pretty well), rather than paying for advertising Amtrak does in their state, they get given a generic "advertising" cost even if Amtrak has spent nothing in any of their markets. Now, I can see a case for putting at least some expense in like that (to cover non-geographic advertisements), but I can see the issue of "You didn't spend anything on advertising here, why are we paying you for advertising?"

 

[jis]

AFAIR one of the biggest beefs NY State had with Amtrak was the blanket large charge for equipment replacement or some such. They managed to negotiate that down to something more manageable.

 

[neroden]

Even the head of the joint powers authority for the San Joaquins has complained, in public, recently, about Amtrak's non-transparent and bogus cost allocations.