New Tacoma station construction to start this spring
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WoodyinNYC
Conductor
Sorry! But you see it says the reroute will save about 8 minutes out of a target 10-minute reduction in the trip time. Plus it's a big part of the upgrades aiming to improve OTP from 73% to 88%, and to add two more daily roundtrips. So you'll have more choice of departure and arrival times, get where you are going faster, and be on time more often -- but with a less scenic ride. I expect most folks will accept the trade-off; it's not like that part of the country is starved for scenery.
I'm glad to see them moving along on these upgrades, to get everything done before all the unfinished Stimulus projects turn into pumpkins in September, 2017. LOL.
Looking for an quick bounce back in riders from the 650,000 now to 850,000 in FY 2018, and then to hit 1 million within two or three years. These numbers will be essential for Amtrak run up another 1 million increase in ridership (like we saw for a while a few years back) when the Stimulus upgrades at last kick in on the Cascades, the STL-CHI and DET-CHI Corridor, on the Piedmont Corridor, and a little bit more here and there.
Sorry? Reducing the travel time from SEA to PDX by a measly 3½% means nothing to me. That's why I prefaced my comment with "For me. . ." to make that subjective comment. Objectively speaking, the new station will be only about ¼ mile from the present one, but from a look-see on Google Earth it will be on a side street and perhaps a little more inconvenient to drive to. Ah well, I guess 8 minutes is an eon for some Type A yuppie poring over his/her PDA. But for this old retired coot it's just 8 minutes less to enjoy whatever there is to see out the window. IMHO, of course. 
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WoodyinNYC
Conductor
On another point altogether, I've been aching to share the observation that the Coast Starlight should benefit nicely from these upgrades to the Cascades Corridor.
Being one of 7 daily trains instead of one of 5 will help boost its ridership, as more total riders are attracted by the better choices of departures and arrivals, and by the peace of mind that if you miss a train, another will be along pretty soon.
Assuming the Starlight now has the same 73% OTP Seattle-Portland as the Cascades trains, getting the average score up to 88% for that popular segment will raise the Starlight's overall score a bit, when every little bit counts.
Heretofore, the big speed improvements Seattle-Portland came from the Talgos' tilting feature, which the Starlight equipment can't match. But the next "about 10 minutes" out of the timetables will be coming from this short cut and some bypasses close to the Oregon border. So the full 10 minutes should come out of the Starlight's run time too.
Altogether these little bits should help improve the Starlight's customer satisfaction scores and its ridership.
Of course, it isn't that the run times improve by a measly 3½%. The meaningful measure is a trip time of 4 hours or less. Experience in Europe reportedly shows that on trips of less than 4 hours between city pairs, trains can compete fairly well with the planes, and on 3-hour trips, the trains will beat them. Currently, the NB Starlight leaves Portland at 4:02 p.m. and arrives Seattle 8:12 p.m., putting this important route on the very cusp of the 4- to 3-hour sweet spot.
Being one of 7 daily trains instead of one of 5 will help boost its ridership, as more total riders are attracted by the better choices of departures and arrivals, and by the peace of mind that if you miss a train, another will be along pretty soon.
Assuming the Starlight now has the same 73% OTP Seattle-Portland as the Cascades trains, getting the average score up to 88% for that popular segment will raise the Starlight's overall score a bit, when every little bit counts.
Heretofore, the big speed improvements Seattle-Portland came from the Talgos' tilting feature, which the Starlight equipment can't match. But the next "about 10 minutes" out of the timetables will be coming from this short cut and some bypasses close to the Oregon border. So the full 10 minutes should come out of the Starlight's run time too.
Altogether these little bits should help improve the Starlight's customer satisfaction scores and its ridership.
Of course, it isn't that the run times improve by a measly 3½%. The meaningful measure is a trip time of 4 hours or less. Experience in Europe reportedly shows that on trips of less than 4 hours between city pairs, trains can compete fairly well with the planes, and on 3-hour trips, the trains will beat them. Currently, the NB Starlight leaves Portland at 4:02 p.m. and arrives Seattle 8:12 p.m., putting this important route on the very cusp of the 4- to 3-hour sweet spot.
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west point
Engineer
Woody: -- your 4 hour theory may have much merit. At one time Amtrak NYP - WASH took over 4 hours. Now Acela takes under 3 hours and also all regionals under 4 hours. Traffic has certainly increased on that line. Some LD trains are still over 4 hours but that may soon change. Look at the historical northbound arrival times of some of the LD trains.
Now BOS - NYP Acelas are under 4 hours and the regionals just over 4 hours. Look how much the Acelas are selling out. Wonder what will happen if regionals can operate under 4 hours ?
Now BOS - NYP Acelas are under 4 hours and the regionals just over 4 hours. Look how much the Acelas are selling out. Wonder what will happen if regionals can operate under 4 hours ?
8 to 10 minutes is a modest improvement. But for a round trip, then the net time savings are 16 to 20 minutes. Since most people are making round trips on the corridor, they get a faster and more reliable round trip. Checking the Washington DOT rail project website, the Pt. Defiance bypass is a necessary step to adding additional daily Cascades trains. The funded upgrades, including the bypass project, will allow service to be increased to 6 daily Cascades trains. I expect you will find that the 6 daily trains will provide a useful improvement in schedule options, even for scenic trips.Sorry? Reducing the travel time from SEA to PDX by a measly 3½% means nothing to me. That's why I prefaced my comment with "For me. . ." to make that subjective comment. Objectively speaking, the new station will be only about ¼ mile from the present one, but from a look-see on Google Earth it will be on a side street and perhaps a little more inconvenient to drive to. Ah well, I guess 8 minutes is an eon for some Type A yuppie poring over his/her PDA. But for this old retired coot it's just 8 minutes less to enjoy whatever there is to see out the window. IMHO, of course.
WoodyinNYC
Conductor
As one old retired curmudgeon to another, I took your remark as subjective. Wasn't looking to beat up on you.Sorry? Reducing the travel time from SEA to PDX by a measly 3½% means nothing to me. That's why I prefaced my comment with "For me. . ." to make that subjective comment. ... Ah well, I guess 8 minutes is an eon for some Type A yuppie poring over his/her PDA. But for this old retired coot it's just 8 minutes less to enjoy whatever there is to see out the window. IMHO, of course.
Mostly I took it as a jumping off point to celebrate the big project and its potential good for Amtrak's national system.
But you might feel less stressed if, instead of picturing the riders who will benefit as Type A yuppies, you can think of them as parents hurrying home to be with their kids after a business trip out of town.
Just for the record, the Metroliners were 3 hours or a bit less between WAS and NYP in the 1980s. The Acela service has not improved trip times much on the southern half of the NEC. The NYP to BOS section got faster due to electification from New Haven to South Station and other improvements. Unfortunately, the northern end of the NEC has gotten slower in recent years due to the problems on the New Haven line.
Anyway, the lesson for the Seattle to Portland corridor is to get train trip times competitive to driving and taking the plane (for city center to city center trips).
I know your just an old coot grumblin... so spike the prune juice and enjoy (LOL).Sorry? Reducing the travel time from SEA to PDX by a measly 3½% means nothing to me. That's why I prefaced my comment with "For me. . ." to make that subjective comment. Objectively speaking, the new station will be only about ¼ mile from the present one, but from a look-see on Google Earth it will be on a side street and perhaps a little more inconvenient to drive to. Ah well, I guess 8 minutes is an eon for some Type A yuppie poring over his/her PDA. But for this old retired coot it's just 8 minutes less to enjoy whatever there is to see out the window. IMHO, of course.
Tacoma and Sound Transit have invested heavily in a real transit center. The new location has light rail connections directly in front and a multi-story parking garage with a city type bus hub (dont know about arf-arf, dont care). Much better than the 1/2 mile hike on a rundown industrial boulevard. The 64K question is if long term parking for Amtrak pax will be allowed.
As to scenery we do lose the lovely view of the lower Puget sound and Tacoma Narrows... but we gain watching a lot of type A yuppies frustrated in stopped traffic on I-5!
neroden
Engineer
The on-time percentage is a lot more important than the actual travel time reduction, though the travel time reduction is nice. But people really do prefer to arrive on schedule....Sorry? Reducing the travel time from SEA to PDX by a measly 3½% means nothing to me. That's why I prefaced my comment with "For me. . ." to make that subjective comment. Objectively speaking, the new station will be only about ¼ mile from the present one, but from a look-see on Google Earth it will be on a side street and perhaps a little more inconvenient to drive to. Ah well, I guess 8 minutes is an eon for some Type A yuppie poring over his/her PDA. But for this old retired coot it's just 8 minutes less to enjoy whatever there is to see out the window. IMHO, of course.
The new location of the station is 100% better than the old one, because it's a consolidated location: it's where the Sounder commuter trains stop, it's where the "Tacoma Link" streetcar stops, it's where the commuter buses stop, it's got a big commuter parking garage already, and it's got shops and restaurants and stuff co-located there already. (P.S.: Karl, it is also where Greyhound stops.)
west point
Engineer
Afigg: Correct about the Metroliner times. Was thinking back to the bad old days when PRR and PC could not even run the Congressional under 4 hours. And BOS _ NYP over 5 hours.
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domefoamer
Train Attendant
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- May 27, 2005
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I feel your pain about losing the water views as you pass below Point Defiance. But that's a roundabout route, circling a long peninsula. It only makes sense in elevation maps that ignore mileage.
Tacoma's new station offers a chance to present a more inviting gateway to the city. That won't be so hard. I rode into the old station for the first time two years ago. It was as bad as any decent-sized city's Amshack. Just a plain, one-story, red-brick building without charm or ornamentation, in a nowhere part of town that's a long, drab walk from downtown. It helped spoil my first impression of a city I've grown to really appreciate.
The new facility is close to restaurants and the waterfront, just an easy walk to the museums, and connected to the short downtown-Stadium District light rail line. A proposed station tower has been deferred at this point,but could be added later. As I recall, the waiting room will have large glass doors openable to the environment, for a causal indoor/outdoor feel. I can't wait to see it.
If you miss the Sound view too badly, stop at the new station, lay over a night and visit the five-mile scenic drive and hiking trails through the green, primeval forest in one of America's largest city parks, on the ridge above the old rail route.
Tacoma's new station offers a chance to present a more inviting gateway to the city. That won't be so hard. I rode into the old station for the first time two years ago. It was as bad as any decent-sized city's Amshack. Just a plain, one-story, red-brick building without charm or ornamentation, in a nowhere part of town that's a long, drab walk from downtown. It helped spoil my first impression of a city I've grown to really appreciate.
The new facility is close to restaurants and the waterfront, just an easy walk to the museums, and connected to the short downtown-Stadium District light rail line. A proposed station tower has been deferred at this point,but could be added later. As I recall, the waiting room will have large glass doors openable to the environment, for a causal indoor/outdoor feel. I can't wait to see it.
If you miss the Sound view too badly, stop at the new station, lay over a night and visit the five-mile scenic drive and hiking trails through the green, primeval forest in one of America's largest city parks, on the ridge above the old rail route.
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