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Brian Battuello said:
And while we're on the subject, the large cruise ship lines have a slightly different approach to yield management. Unlike Amtrak which starts out very low and climbs as it fills, they set an arbitrary price for each type of room based on historical averages. Then four times a day literally they compare the sale rate to a historically anticipated curve of sales.

If the sales rate is faster than anticipated they creep the price up. Likewise if it drops below the curve they creep the price down.

The trick for customers is to find a cruise that is badly mismatched with the average sale rate. In this rare case, the price can drop through the floor. I scored a terrific room on a Nova Scotia cruise that was just a little too early in the year to attract customers. When the algorithm sees the boat possibly leaving 2/3 full it freaks out.
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Good points. One big difference comparing YM on Amtrak and cruise ships, is that most cruise lines want the ship to sail out full, even though they may be almost "giving away" cabins at times. The reason is, that they have all kinds of opportunities to make up for that with lots of spending options on board the ships. Amtrak has almost none of that...they don't even allow coach passenger's to patronize the diner's.🤷‍♂️
 
Brian Battuello said:
Very good point. Now if we can just figure out some real ways that Amtrak can extract money from customers along the route… Casinos anyone?
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A good start would be to admit coach passenger's into the diner's. On the so-called "experiential trains", such as the CZ, they could take a page from Alaska cruise ship trains, and have a small "gift shop" selection...offering various route specific or Company logo merchandise. Maybe install some video arcade machines in a "recreation car"?
 
railiner said:
Maybe install some video arcade machines in a "recreation car"?
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That's very 1980s and would be a waste of space. Those places went out of business for a reason. People play games on their mobile devices now. (And does anyone even manufacture arcade games anymore?? (Somewhat rhetorical - I am sure SOMEone does.))

Also, cruise ships carry literally thousands of passengers. Amtrak's LD trains, dozens to maybe a couple hundred at most. So a very small pool of potential customers to invest in the equipment and staffing for a gift shop, etc. Better to sell that kind of stuff maybe at like a Hudson News (or regional equivalent) at the major stations.
 
jruff001 said:
Also, cruise ships carry literally thousands of passengers. Amtrak's LD trains, dozens to maybe a couple hundred at most. So a very small pool of potential customers to invest in the equipment and staffing for a gift shop, etc. Better to sell that kind of stuff maybe at like a Hudson News (or regional equivalent) at the major stations.
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If the train has a café, it's just a matter of putting things in a display case, finding room to stock a few, and adding them to the POS system - very small investment. Especially on Superliners, which have that fairly large café space on the lower level.
 
joelkfla said:
If the train has a café, it's just a matter of putting things in a display case, finding room to stock a few, and adding them to the POS system - very small investment. Especially on Superliners, which have that fairly large café space on the lower level.
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Or that! I agree. I think they used to sell things like blankets and playing cards with the Amtrak logo in the lounge cars on LD trains; don't know if they still do.
 
jruff001 said:
Or that! I agree. I think they used to sell things like blankets and playing cards with the Amtrak logo in the lounge cars on LD trains; don't know if they still do.
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Some items were still being sold in the cafe in 2019. That's when I bought my "sleep kit" on the SWC. Iirc, there were a few other non-food items for sale there also.
 
railiner said:
A good start would be to admit coach passenger's into the diner's. On the so-called "experiential trains", such as the CZ, they could take a page from Alaska cruise ship trains, and have a small "gift shop" selection...offering various route specific or Company logo merchandise. Maybe install some video arcade machines in a "recreation car"?
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I agree with the first two, not the third. But having some things such as playing cards, route guides, Amtrak merchandise (even better, route specific merchandise) would be nice.
 
Cal said:
I agree with the first two, not the third. But having some things such as playing cards, route guides, Amtrak merchandise (even better, route specific merchandise) would be nice.
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Okay then...video arcades not a good choice...at least try to provide some wifi, even without internet when unavailable, but have some preloaded entertainment for passenger's to watch on their own 'device's', similar to what airlines offer.
 
There was an Acade Car on the Coast Starlight within the past decade. Basically a few Arcade machines in a converted coach baggage car that I believe was formerly the "kiddie car" but I don't know what was in it as the Kiddie Car, I just remember reading about the Kiddie car in timetables.
 
SubwayNut said:
There was an Acade Car on the Coast Starlight within the past decade. Basically a few Arcade machines in a converted coach baggage car that I believe was formerly the "kiddie car" but I don't know what was in it as the Kiddie Car, I just remember reading about the Kiddie car in timetables.
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Most of the games were out of date and usually out of order!

Just like the theater downstairs in the PPC, it was mostly empty during most of the route.
 
If we are talking about experiential travel helping to fill sleepers, it would be nice if Amtrak could feature some micro-brews and wines from breweries/wineries that are along the route.

I'd also love to see an app with audio guides that describe various things about the route as well as the scenery.

Another nice touch would be streaming entertainment to a personal device like some of the airlines do. They could even include railroad related documentaries and entertainment - or perhaps movies that are set in places through which the train travels.
 
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Thank you for your cooperation.
 
While it is unfortunate that the discussion couldn't be had without having to resort to staff involvement, the point I was attempting to make stands. The arguments made in this thread that a train running with mostly-empty bedrooms and mostly-full roomettes was proof that bedrooms are too expensive don't hold water when placed next to this piece of anecdata.

Different trains have differing occupancy. The people who do the job of revenue management have a heck of a lot more data at their disposal to make pricing decisions and seem to do a reasonable job. Outliers such as this train with no bedrooms or that other train with empty bedrooms happen, but don't really prove much.
 
Cal said:
But having some things such as playing cards, route guides, Amtrak merchandise (even better, route specific merchandise) would be nice.
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You can sometimes find those items in the Cafe Car, not sure if they were a COVID casualty or not.

That being said, the fuel cost of carrying some of these items on the LD trains could be higher than the potential margin from these items.
 
Ryan said:
While it is unfortunate that the discussion couldn't be had without having to resort to staff involvement, the point I was attempting to make stands. The arguments made in this thread that a train running with mostly-empty bedrooms and mostly-full roomettes was proof that bedrooms are too expensive don't hold water when placed next to this piece of anecdata.

Different trains have differing occupancy. The people who do the job of revenue management have a heck of a lot more data at their disposal to make pricing decisions and seem to do a reasonable job. Outliers such as this train with no bedrooms or that other train with empty bedrooms happen, but don't really prove much.
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If a train has mostly empty bedrooms while roomettes are full (or vice versa), it is certainly a strong possibility that the yield management system was ineffective for that particular train. At a minimum, the possibility cannot be ruled out.

One thing to keep in mind is that Amtrak’s yield management system is not nearly as nuanced or nimble as the ones that airlines and the cruise industry use. Therefore, it is reasonable to infer that Amtrak’s yield management causes more “misses” than systems used by other forms of transportation.
 
Exvalley said:
If we are talking about experiential travel helping to fill sleepers, it would be nice if Amtrak could feature some micro-brews and wines from breweries/wineries that are along the route.

I'd also love to see an app with audio guides that describe various things about the route as well as the scenery.

Another nice touch would be streaming entertainment to a personal device like some of the airlines do. They could even include railroad related documentaries and entertainment - or perhaps movies that are set in places through which the train travels.
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think some of the west coast trains like the Surfliner and the Cascades do feature regional booze, at least to a degree. But there is lots more that could be done, no doubt.
 
danasgoodstuff said:
think some of the west coast trains like the Surfliner and the Cascades do feature regional booze, at least to a degree. But there is lots more that could be done, no doubt.
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The Cascades did prior to the pandemic. The local food offerings were better than what coach passengers are offered on long-distance trains.

It's interesting to overhear favorable comments about it. And it's an aspect of the service that could be built upon.
 
I think the Cascades and Coast Starlight roll through 3 States and a Province where marijuana is legal, but that might put their federal $ in jeopardy. Probably cut down on passenger issues relative to alcohol - but smoking anything has air quality issues and not everyone enjoys that smell. Just thinking, if you can call it that, out loud. Might help food sales though, maybe too much!
 
Devil's Advocate said:
Installing a real bar in the bottom of the lounge on Superliners could do wonders for Amtrak's revenue. Pints on draft, rotating microbrews, and hand crafted cocktails as you chat with other patrons and watch the world go by. Awkward communal dining is not a draw for many but a quality bar can print money.
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This is definitely a great idea, I agree it would print money. And, as other posters have mentioned, they need to allow coach customers to purchase food from the dining car if they want to. I would, if I were in coach.
 

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