Northwest mudslide season begins

[gn2276]

The equipment that left PDX is coming back tomrrow and the equipment that is sitting in SEA right now is going to PDX tomrrow. The passengers will eather be bused to SPK or they may ride a very late train out of SEA. I am thinking that they will bus the passengers to SPK and deadhead the train to PDX in the morning maybe as part of the Starlight.

 

[gn2276]

As far as restocking the train in SPK the commisary will drive over to SPK.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Where are you getting this info from exactly. Doesn't make much sense, why run the Portland section at all?

 

[EB_OBS]

The Seattle section of #7(18) is terminating in SPK and will wye, clean and return as #8(19).

The Portland #27 section will run through as usual.

The passengers on #7 will be put onto buses and bussed to their final destinations.

Passengers from Seattle, Edmonds, Everett, Leavenworth, Wenatchee and Euphrata will wait in the lobby in SPK until the equipment is serviced and ready to board and depart SPK.

Right now I'm anticipating at best a 4:30 am departure for #8(19)

 

[jebr]

The Seattle section of #7(18) is terminating in SPK and will wye, clean and return as #8(19).

The Portland #27 section will run through as usual.

The passengers on #7 will be put onto buses and bussed to their final destinations.

Passengers from Seattle, Edmonds, Everett, Leavenworth, Wenatchee and Euphrata will wait in the lobby in SPK until the equipment is serviced and ready to board and depart SPK.

Right now I'm anticipating at best a 4:30 am departure for #8(19)

Yikes, that would be no fun for those waiting in the station. Hopefully Amtrak offers vouchers or something for that...trying to sleep in a station has to be close to impossible!

 

[EB_OBS]

Yeah it never usually ends up being fun for anyone.

 

[CHamilton]

Thanks for the update, EB_OBS. Sounds like no fun for anyone, but at least the EB passengers will get where they need to go. I haven't heard anything about substitute transportation for SEA-VAC passengers, so I cancelled my trip.

 

[gn2276]

Should be buses to VAC

 

[jebr]

Is the Seattle - Portland route for the Cascades prone to mudslides?

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Is the Seattle - Portland route for the Cascades prone to mudslides?

They do happen from time to time, but not anything like the Seattle - Everett section.

 

[gn2276]

The only part that really has any trouble is just south of Tacoma.

 

[AlanB]

The Seattle section of #7(18) is terminating in SPK and will wye, clean and return as #8(19).

The Portland #27 section will run through as usual.

The passengers on #7 will be put onto buses and bussed to their final destinations.

Passengers from Seattle, Edmonds, Everett, Leavenworth, Wenatchee and Euphrata will wait in the lobby in SPK until the equipment is serviced and ready to board and depart SPK.

Right now I'm anticipating at best a 4:30 am departure for #8(19)

Yikes, that would be no fun for those waiting in the station. Hopefully Amtrak offers vouchers or something for that...trying to sleep in a station has to be close to impossible!

It may not be fun, and I know that even I wouldn't be thrilled. But it's better than "sorry, cancelled with no alternative service to get you where you're going."

 

[Devil's Advocate]

One would think they could fix this after all of these years!!!!

This sort of thing is fixable, but not necessarily cheaply fixable. You would also get all the "environmentalists' coming out of the woodwork claiming that the things that have to be done to the cliff face to keep it from sliding down piece by piece will bring an end to the natural universe.

The vast majority of environmentalists I've met (we're talking hundreds here) are extremely pro-rail with regard to passenger services. A few were indifferent to rail but I could count the number of staunchly anti-rail environmentalists I've met on one hand. As with any activist group, environmentalists have numerous goals, including some goals which may influence or interfere with other goals. Nonetheless there is no environmentalist group I'm aware of that is singling out passenger trains with a hyper sensitive 48 hour rule. Nor am I aware of any environmental group that is promoting the building of roads and houses in unstable areas. Despite all the nonsense and vitriol that is routinely heaped upon environmentalists I've actually found them to be rather reasonable folks in most respects. Even if they come to a given problem with a preconceived solution they can generally be reasoned with until a compromise can be found. Unfortunately genuine compromise can be hard to come by in an era of excessive prejudice and hyper partisanship.

 

[Phil S]

And it looks like #7 was terminated in SPK. Ouch. Bus ride through the night is not fun for anyone. Me, as a sleeper pax, I'd bail, get some sleep, rent a car or fly the next day.

And, george, how would you fix it? Build a 100-ft high 6-ft thick wall along the 10 or 15 miles of cliff? I doubt "enviromentalists" would be the main obstacle. A cheaper solution would be to relocate the tracks through the upscale houses along the cliff top (including two firends of mine). Again, I doubt "enviromentalists" would be the main obstacle.

 

[montana mike]

I see the EB(#8) is currently almost 4 1/2 hours late in MT--bummer.

 

[tomfuller]

Phil S the EB arrived 28 minutes early in Spokane this morning. The Seattle section arrived early and the Portland section was 12 minutes late in Wishram. No buses were used east to west today in Washington to transport Amtrak passengers.

 

[CHamilton]

All Aboard Washington posted on Facebook:

No North SOUNDER (Seattle-Everett) nor Seattle-Vancouver Amtrak Cascades train service (bus substitutes) today, due to numerous mudslides. Track may be opened by 1pm tomorrow, depending on the situation.

Here in Seattle, we had record rainfall yesterday. It's not raining at present, but it's clouding up, and another storm system is due this afternoon.

 

[CHamilton]

Press release from WSDOT:

Amtrak service between Seattle and Everett is scheduled to resume Thursday, Nov.22. When train service is disrupted, Amtrak secures buses to ensure passengers reach their destinations. All trains south of Seattle are running normally.

...

While 96 percent of Amtrak Cascades train trips were unaffected by mudslides in 2011, work is being done to reduce the likelihood of disruptions to passenger rail service. BNSF Railway and the Washington State Department of Transportation implemented low-cost maintenance work in problem areas along the corridor in 2012. This work included improving the run-off drainage next to the tracks, cleaning culverts, trimming trees and brush, and clearing debris that could cover the tracks.

This additional preventative work appears to be having a positive result. In 2012, prior to this week, only 28 train trips were affected by mudslides. BNSF also has an aggressive maintenance program, investing more than $100 million annually in Washington State to preserve and maintain tracks.

Long term, the Federal Railroad Administration allowed WSDOT to allocate $16 million of its federal high-speed-rail funding to identify, design and construct solutions for mudslide containment, with a goal of starting work in 2014. Geotechnical data and studies commissioned by BNSF will be used to prioritize the work.

 

[NorthCoastHiawatha]

Press release from WSDOT:

Amtrak service between Seattle and Everett is scheduled to resume Thursday, Nov.22. When train service is disrupted, Amtrak secures buses to ensure passengers reach their destinations. All trains south of Seattle are running normally.

...

While 96 percent of Amtrak Cascades train trips were unaffected by mudslides in 2011, work is being done to reduce the likelihood of disruptions to passenger rail service. BNSF Railway and the Washington State Department of Transportation implemented low-cost maintenance work in problem areas along the corridor in 2012. This work included improving the run-off drainage next to the tracks, cleaning culverts, trimming trees and brush, and clearing debris that could cover the tracks.

This additional preventative work appears to be having a positive result. In 2012, prior to this week, only 28 train trips were affected by mudslides. BNSF also has an aggressive maintenance program, investing more than $100 million annually in Washington State to preserve and maintain tracks.

Long term, the Federal Railroad Administration allowed WSDOT to allocate $16 million of its federal high-speed-rail funding to identify, design and construct solutions for mudslide containment, with a goal of starting work in 2014. Geotechnical data and studies commissioned by BNSF will be used to prioritize the work.

They say service resumes Thursday but I have feeling the morning train will be a bus.

 

[Pam]

I'm a passenger now on the Seattle bound Empire Builder. Will we be bussed from Spokane to Seattle tonight? Or from Everett to Seattle?

 

[jebr]

I'm a passenger now on the Seattle bound Empire Builder. Will we be bussed from Spokane to Seattle tonight? Or from Everett to Seattle?

While I'm not sure, I'd suspect Spokane, as Amtrak can't store trains in Everett.

Perhaps there'd be a way to get them to let you take the Cascades up from Portland to Seattle, though with it being the day before Thanksgiving, it's unlikely.

 

[zephyr17]

I'm a passenger now on the Seattle bound Empire Builder. Will we be bussed from Spokane to Seattle tonight? Or from Everett to Seattle?

While I'm not sure, I'd suspect Spokane, as Amtrak can't store trains in Everett.

No, Amtrak can't store trains in Everett.

However, when the line is open but still within BNSF's 48 hour embargo of passenger trains following a slide, Amtrak has been known to deadhead the Builder between Seattle and Everett, turning the train normally in Seattle, but boarding and disembarking Seattle passengers in Everett, busing them to and from Seattle.

I heard on the radio that BNSF between Seattle and Everett is open to freight traffic now, so going through to Everett and deadheading to Seattle is at least a possibility.

 

[CHamilton]

However, when the line is open but still within BNSF's 48 hour embargo of passenger trains following a slide, Amtrak has been known to deadhead the Builder between Seattle and Everett, turning the train normally in Seattle, but boarding and disembarking Seattle passengers in Everett, busing them to and from Seattle.

I heard on the radio that BNSF between Seattle and Everett is open to freight traffic now, so going through to Everett and deadheading to Seattle is at least a possibility.

That's what I would guess. When a similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago, the passengers were bussed from Everett, but the crew, and even the luggage, went on the train. My SCA groused about that, since it showed how little sense BNSF's rules are, and how little they value Amtrak's employees -- or their own, for that matter.

I am convinced that the whole 48-hour rule was made up by a lawyer somewhere that didn't want to get sued. Which is ironic, since the current setup would never be justifiable in court.

 

[CHamilton]

No passenger train north of Seattle until Thursday

Fifteen mudslides hit Burlington Northern Santa Fe tracks between Seattle and Everett during recent heavy rain.

Spokesman Gus Melonas (mel-OWN'-us) says the largest early Tuesday at Everett covered 50 feet of track up to 15 feet deep with mud, rocks and trees.

Freight trains have been running sporadically. Passenger trains are on hold as a safety precaution. No Amtrak or commuter rail trains will run between Seattle and Everett until 12:30 a.m. Thursday, at the earliest.

 

[anir dendroica]

However, when the line is open but still within BNSF's 48 hour embargo of passenger trains following a slide, Amtrak has been known to deadhead the Builder between Seattle and Everett, turning the train normally in Seattle, but boarding and disembarking Seattle passengers in Everett, busing them to and from Seattle.

I heard on the radio that BNSF between Seattle and Everett is open to freight traffic now, so going through to Everett and deadheading to Seattle is at least a possibility.

That's what I would guess. When a similar thing happened to me a couple of years ago, the passengers were bussed from Everett, but the crew, and even the luggage, went on the train. My SCA groused about that, since it showed how little sense BNSF's rules are, and how little they value Amtrak's employees -- or their own, for that matter.

I am convinced that the whole 48-hour rule was made up by a lawyer somewhere that didn't want to get sued. Which is ironic, since the current setup would never be justifiable in court.

I suspect that the 48-hour rule is at least partially politically motivated on BNSF's part. It seems to only apply to mudslides in the PNW, and not to rockslides or avalanches in the Rockies.

BNSF loses a lot of time and money fighting mudslides between Seattle and Everett, but not enough that it makes economic sense to tackle the expensive task of slope stabilization. Without the 48-hour rule, mudslides would be a pretty minor inconvenience for passenger trains as well. The effect of the rule is to cause major service disruptions and draw public attention to the problem, which garners support for taxpayer-funded solutions. So far the strategy seems to be working...